I want a S&W K-Frame 48 in .22 Mag in the worst possible way. What a practical handgun when stalking with a long gun. But then I see the 66 in .357, and I get to thinking about how practical it is... and then I don’t get either arg!
Are Small Caliber Handguns Worth the Price?
- Thread starter Raissermesser
- Start date
simon1
Self Ignored by Vista
There's Rob...right on cue. I do believe I have him trained well.
@Raissermesser You know that what you get is going to be what you are comfortable with and can shoot well.
I may need to start a thread of semi-auto vs. revolver...that should be fun. Glock fan boy vs. S&W and Colt revolver fan boy.
- Thread starter
- #43
I don't know about coyotes getting toward the bottom weight end the further south you go. Here, there have been coyotes large enough to make some wonder if they don't have red wolf in them and I know one man who swore the two that took down a yearling were wolves. I've seen them on both ends. The one I saw looked like a juvenile, but will be pretty good size when full grown.
They aren't indigenous here. The story goes they were originally brought in by fox hunters wanting something different. Whether that's true or not, they didn't show up around here until the 1970s. Coincidentally or not, don't think I've seen a gray fox since the 1970s, either. It's impacted other local wildlife as well.
I wouldn't count on running off either. We didn't start carrying shotguns for fixing fence until a black bear got after some children, and was drawn off by their dog who ran interference. This was at a neighbor's, but neighbor distance here is often measured in miles. And yes, my father and I saw the tracks from that, and how the bear came off our land and over the fence.
Same thing with coyotes. Sure, you can scare them. But I remember some once that my father couldn't scare off by yelling and banging on metal. But giving them a dose of buckshot did the trick.
Granted some may can scare away a coyote or a bear most of the time, but those you can scare away aren't the problem. It's the others who are, and those are the ones you carry for.
And then there is the emerging Coywolf population expanding through the US.
They definitely wipe out the fox population when they move into an area. The Same happened with reds in southern Michigan. The wolf population will do the same to the coyote. In the upper peninsula, the wolves have reduced the coyote population a lot.
Back to the original question, yes I believe small caliber handguns are worth the price. Ideally, a good used model would be more cost efficient, but some of the newer models offer options not available in the used market. I'm particularly interested in the .327 mag cartridge guns, which can also accommodate lesser .32 cal. rounds for a very adaptable shooting platform. The only downside is ammo availability, particularly of the older .32 rounds, but most can be ordered online, and all are easily reloaded. I would love to see a S&W Kit Gun in .327 mag., but in the meantime, there is a Ruger SP 101 with a 4 in. barrel and adjustable sights in .327 mag. that would fit the bill nicely.
Great thread discussion about coyotes, learning a lot!
Great thread discussion about coyotes, learning a lot!
I to lust for a S&W model 48!
This guy taught me a bunch about coyotes........
It depends how far you'll be shooting. A .22 will do it, a .22 magnum will do it better, but are you sure the shot can be made cleanly is the question. The brain is a small target. Miss and it will run off. Miss only a little and it will run off wounded.
Coyotes are smart. As long as theres no food around to tempt them they shouldnt be a recurring problem. If they think it not worth the risk, they wont bother either unless they're especially bold, which many are in urban areas.
Personally, at 30 yards or beyond I wouldnt use anything lighter than a .357. Coyotes are light bodied but very tenacious. I've seen several take a shot from a .223 to the ribs and still fight the hounds. A .22-250 on the other hand does the trick pretty well. The frontal area of a .357 diameter bullet should turn them off almost instantly.
A nonlethal option is a bottle rocket
. Hilarious posterIt depends how far you'll be shooting. A .22 will do it, a .22 magnum will do it better, but are you sure the shot can be made cleanly is the question. The brain is a small target. Miss and it will run off. Miss only a little and it will run off wounded.
Coyotes are smart. As long as theres no food around to tempt them they shouldnt be a recurring problem. If they think it not worth the risk, they wont bother either unless they're especially bold, which many are in urban areas.
Personally, at 30 yards or beyond I wouldnt use anything lighter than a .357. Coyotes are light bodied but very tenacious. I've seen several take a shot from a .223 to the ribs and still fight the hounds. A .22-250 on the other hand does the trick pretty well. The frontal area of a .357 diameter bullet should turn them off almost instantly.
A nonlethal option is a bottle rocket
View attachment 984540
I saw a very scary looking "coydog" once. Looked like a cross between a 'yote and a Catahoula Cur, the Louisiana state dog (I'm in LA). The "coydog" was sitting back in the brush on an old abandoned farm I was hunting. It had these blue eyes peering out of the shadows (Catahoula's have blue eyes), very creepy. It was in no way aggressive, so I let it be and we each went our own ways.
So, I live in a very built-up, long established suburb of Metro Detroit. Tons of parks and lakes, but overall it's a solidly suburban place, with office buildings, subdivisions and strip malls, little farmland or undeveloped space for large wildlife that is not a park of some sort.
Our subdivision was developed long time ago, some houses date back to 1960s, the majority were built in the 80s. Whatever local wildlife existed here has been displaced and moved on decades and many animal generations ago.
In the 22 years I've lived here, there's always been some wildlife, and it's always been the same and behaved predictably. A herd of deer would come out early in the morning and at dusk to eat my wife's roses, among other things Very skittish and would bolt at a slightest noise. Tons of industrious raccoons, taking place of feral cats in other parts of the world. Skunks, groundhogs, chipmunks, squirrels, ducks and geese.
It all started to change probably five-six years ago. The deer became extremely bold, and seem completely unafraid of people. They won't let you really close, but they are now wandering around in broad daylight, would not run away when I get out of the car even though I'm barely about 20 feet from them, and seem completely nonchalant. It's like a new generation of deer grew up that doesn't perceive people as a threat.
A couple years ago the coyotes started to move in in numbers. There have never been any coyote sightings around here (I am sure they were always in the general area, but kept well out of sight and probably largely on the more rural outskirts of Metro Detroit). Now, they are literally in people's backyards, all the subdivisions around here report seeing them. They are also not very much afraid of people.
Two years ago, I've seen a wild turkey on my back porch for the first time in twenty years - scared my cat to death. Now, they are routinely stopping traffic, on major intersections in some very highly urbanized parts of the city. In just half a year, there's been two instances - that I saw with my very eyes - of two-three large turkeys very leisurely walking across some major roads in the middle of highly developed areas.
I think what is happening is the wildlife is moving back into urban centers. There's no feral cats or dogs, no hunting, and people don't harass or kill wild animals. The new generations of animals simply do not see people as a threat anymore.
When it comes to deer or turkeys, it's great. When it comes to coyotes and black bears, I am afraid this is not a good development. A predator that is not afraid of humans will eventually see them as prey. Sure, no coyote in their right mind would attack an adult human, but small kids are a different matter. I've heard of people's pets getting snatched away from literally under their noses, and I'm afraid it's just a matter of time before a child gets attacked.
And an even scarier thought is the possibility of coyote / dog interbreeding. All the sources I've ever read said that wild wolf / dog hybreeds are more dangerous than pure wolves, because they are completely unafraid of humans. Don't think coydog hybrids would be much different..
Sorry for a long rant...
Our subdivision was developed long time ago, some houses date back to 1960s, the majority were built in the 80s. Whatever local wildlife existed here has been displaced and moved on decades and many animal generations ago.
In the 22 years I've lived here, there's always been some wildlife, and it's always been the same and behaved predictably. A herd of deer would come out early in the morning and at dusk to eat my wife's roses, among other things
Very skittish and would bolt at a slightest noise. Tons of industrious raccoons, taking place of feral cats in other parts of the world. Skunks, groundhogs, chipmunks, squirrels, ducks and geese.It all started to change probably five-six years ago. The deer became extremely bold, and seem completely unafraid of people. They won't let you really close, but they are now wandering around in broad daylight, would not run away when I get out of the car even though I'm barely about 20 feet from them, and seem completely nonchalant. It's like a new generation of deer grew up that doesn't perceive people as a threat.
A couple years ago the coyotes started to move in in numbers. There have never been any coyote sightings around here (I am sure they were always in the general area, but kept well out of sight and probably largely on the more rural outskirts of Metro Detroit). Now, they are literally in people's backyards, all the subdivisions around here report seeing them. They are also not very much afraid of people.
Two years ago, I've seen a wild turkey on my back porch for the first time in twenty years - scared my cat to death. Now, they are routinely stopping traffic, on major intersections in some very highly urbanized parts of the city. In just half a year, there's been two instances - that I saw with my very eyes - of two-three large turkeys very leisurely walking across some major roads in the middle of highly developed areas.
I think what is happening is the wildlife is moving back into urban centers. There's no feral cats or dogs, no hunting, and people don't harass or kill wild animals. The new generations of animals simply do not see people as a threat anymore.
When it comes to deer or turkeys, it's great. When it comes to coyotes and black bears, I am afraid this is not a good development. A predator that is not afraid of humans will eventually see them as prey. Sure, no coyote in their right mind would attack an adult human, but small kids are a different matter. I've heard of people's pets getting snatched away from literally under their noses, and I'm afraid it's just a matter of time before a child gets attacked.
And an even scarier thought is the possibility of coyote / dog interbreeding. All the sources I've ever read said that wild wolf / dog hybreeds are more dangerous than pure wolves, because they are completely unafraid of humans. Don't think coydog hybrids would be much different..
Sorry for a long rant...
- Thread starter
- #53
It depends how far you'll be shooting. A .22 will do it, a .22 magnum will do it better, but are you sure the shot can be made cleanly is the question. The brain is a small target. Miss and it will run off. Miss only a little and it will run off wounded.
Coyotes are smart. As long as theres no food around to tempt them they shouldnt be a recurring problem. If they think it not worth the risk, they wont bother either unless they're especially bold, which many are in urban areas.
Personally, at 30 yards or beyond I wouldnt use anything lighter than a .357. Coyotes are light bodied but very tenacious. I've seen several take a shot from a .223 to the ribs and still fight the hounds. A .22-250 on the other hand does the trick pretty well. The frontal area of a .357 diameter bullet should turn them off almost instantly.
A nonlethal option is a bottle rocket
View attachment 984540
Snerk.
- Thread starter
- #54
So, I live in a very built-up, long established suburb of Metro Detroit. Tons of parks and lakes, but overall it's a solidly suburban place, with office buildings, subdivisions and strip malls, little farmland or undeveloped space for large wildlife that is not a park of some sort.
Our subdivision was developed long time ago, some houses date back to 1960s, the majority were built in the 80s. Whatever local wildlife existed here has been displaced and moved on decades and many animal generations ago.
In the 22 years I've lived here, there's always been some wildlife, and it's always been the same and behaved predictably. A herd of deer would come out early in the morning and at dusk to eat my wife's roses, among other things
It all started to change probably five-six years ago. The deer became extremely bold, and seem completely unafraid of people. They won't let you really close, but they are now wandering around in broad daylight, would not run away when I get out of the car even though I'm barely about 20 feet from them, and seem completely nonchalant. It's like a new generation of deer grew up that doesn't perceive people as a threat.
A couple years ago the coyotes started to move in in numbers. There have never been any coyote sightings around here (I am sure they were always in the general area, but kept well out of sight and probably largely on the more rural outskirts of Metro Detroit). Now, they are literally in people's backyards, all the subdivisions around here report seeing them. They are also not very much afraid of people.
Two years ago, I've seen a wild turkey on my back porch for the first time in twenty years - scared my cat to death. Now, they are routinely stopping traffic, on major intersections in some very highly urbanized parts of the city. In just half a year, there's been two instances - that I saw with my very eyes - of two-three large turkeys very leisurely walking across some major roads in the middle of highly developed areas.
I think what is happening is the wildlife is moving back into urban centers. There's no feral cats or dogs, no hunting, and people don't harass or kill wild animals. The new generations of animals simply do not see people as a threat anymore.
When it comes to deer or turkeys, it's great. When it comes to coyotes and black bears, I am afraid this is not a good development. A predator that is not afraid of humans will eventually see them as prey. Sure, no coyote in their right mind would attack an adult human, but small kids are a different matter. I've heard of people's pets getting snatched away from literally under their noses, and I'm afraid it's just a matter of time before a child gets attacked.
And an even scarier thought is the possibility of coyote / dog interbreeding. All the sources I've ever read said that wild wolf / dog hybreeds are more dangerous than pure wolves, because they are completely unafraid of humans. Don't think coydog hybrids would be much different..
Sorry for a long rant...
1970s, there were warnings about coydogs here, particularly that they don't have the same fear of humans. That said, I don't know if I've ever seen one. Here, the closest incident happened to my father that time, but unfortunately, I know of several tragedies involving dogs. OTOH, two close calls involving bears.
I worry about wildlife losing fear of humans, too. One reason rabies went through my mind with that coyote is that rabies can generally change behavior and cause wild animals to lose fear of humans. A particular rabid racoon comes to mind.
You might not be able to shoot them, but you can sure trap them. I wouldn’t want coyote hanging out in my yard with little kids. Trapping is very effective and humane when done correctly. It’s also good sport. If you would like I can hook you up with some information and instruction.So, I live in a very built-up, long established suburb of Metro Detroit. Tons of parks and lakes, but overall it's a solidly suburban place, with office buildings, subdivisions and strip malls, little farmland or undeveloped space for large wildlife that is not a park of some sort.
Our subdivision was developed long time ago, some houses date back to 1960s, the majority were built in the 80s. Whatever local wildlife existed here has been displaced and moved on decades and many animal generations ago.
In the 22 years I've lived here, there's always been some wildlife, and it's always been the same and behaved predictably. A herd of deer would come out early in the morning and at dusk to eat my wife's roses, among other things
It all started to change probably five-six years ago. The deer became extremely bold, and seem completely unafraid of people. They won't let you really close, but they are now wandering around in broad daylight, would not run away when I get out of the car even though I'm barely about 20 feet from them, and seem completely nonchalant. It's like a new generation of deer grew up that doesn't perceive people as a threat.
A couple years ago the coyotes started to move in in numbers. There have never been any coyote sightings around here (I am sure they were always in the general area, but kept well out of sight and probably largely on the more rural outskirts of Metro Detroit). Now, they are literally in people's backyards, all the subdivisions around here report seeing them. They are also not very much afraid of people.
Two years ago, I've seen a wild turkey on my back porch for the first time in twenty years - scared my cat to death. Now, they are routinely stopping traffic, on major intersections in some very highly urbanized parts of the city. In just half a year, there's been two instances - that I saw with my very eyes - of two-three large turkeys very leisurely walking across some major roads in the middle of highly developed areas.
I think what is happening is the wildlife is moving back into urban centers. There's no feral cats or dogs, no hunting, and people don't harass or kill wild animals. The new generations of animals simply do not see people as a threat anymore.
When it comes to deer or turkeys, it's great. When it comes to coyotes and black bears, I am afraid this is not a good development. A predator that is not afraid of humans will eventually see them as prey. Sure, no coyote in their right mind would attack an adult human, but small kids are a different matter. I've heard of people's pets getting snatched away from literally under their noses, and I'm afraid it's just a matter of time before a child gets attacked.
And an even scarier thought is the possibility of coyote / dog interbreeding. All the sources I've ever read said that wild wolf / dog hybreeds are more dangerous than pure wolves, because they are completely unafraid of humans. Don't think coydog hybrids would be much different..
Sorry for a long rant...
Regards
Thanks, but I don't have the time for this, besides with all the coyote sightings around here a part time trapper probably wouldn't have much impact anyway.
My kids are teenagers now, and our only house pet is strictly indoors (and she seems to have a fear of the outside, being a rescue, so she never tries to get out).
If I do get attacked by a coyote while walking in the woods early in the morning, I will shoot it.
This is a good video that highlights a coyotes behavior. Its not sick and its not playing. Its testing him, checking for weaknesses.
Language warning.
That yote could very easily have lunged at him and he would have been in a fight before he knew one started. Any wild animal thats belligerent like that with people needs to understand humans arent easy targets and need to be run off in fear of their lives. Imagine what may happen the next time that yote encounters a person. Now imagine there was more than one, which is also common in urban areas.
Language warning.
That yote could very easily have lunged at him and he would have been in a fight before he knew one started. Any wild animal thats belligerent like that with people needs to understand humans arent easy targets and need to be run off in fear of their lives. Imagine what may happen the next time that yote encounters a person. Now imagine there was more than one, which is also common in urban areas.
Shoulda hadda gun, eh?
Better to have one and not need it, than need one and not have it.
