I wanted to get a manchurian badger brush but Simpson's prices were too much for my budget so I ordered a Oumo brush instead that claimed to have their manchurian knot which I believe is among their best grades. Is there any quality difference between the badger hair used between the Oumo and the Simpson? After all I figured that manchurian badger hair comes from China anyway so the place of origin for both makers are the same general area. Am I off base ?
Are Oumo Manchurian knot brushes as good as Simpson manchurian brushes?
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EclipseRedRing
I smell like a Christmas pudding
I own several Simpson Manchurian brushes but am not even sure what 'Manchurian' means exactly. I suspect it is simply a marketing term and nothing to do with the Manchuria region of China. As I understand it almost all badger hair, Manchurian or otherwise, comes from China, even so called European badger which refers to the particular type of badger, Meles Meles, as opposed to the place of origin. So, the location of origin would appear to be no guarantee of quality as both high and lesser quality brushes can and do contain hair from China. Instead I suppose the higher end brands select the best hair from the bunch. I believe Oumo are highly regarded and like most things I would expect the law of diminishing returns to apply.
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- #3
Thanks for your reply EclipseRedRing. Have you tried a oumo manchurian brush? I am curious if it is similar in feel and performance to your Simpson brushes.
EclipseRedRing
I smell like a Christmas pudding
Sadly I have not tried an Oumo brush but I suspect that it will be almost as good, if not as good as a Simpson, for a much lower price. However, for me, Simpson is about more than simply the quality of the product. It is also about how the product is made and the history and heritage of the brand. That has a value for me but not for some others.
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- #5
Thanks for your reply. I would love to have a Simpson brush for much the same reasons you mentioned but the cost is too much for me at present. Maybe in the future!
I haven't had the chance to try a Simpson brush for the same reasons but I really enjoy my Oumo Manchuria brush and similar SHD badgers. The closest I've gone to a Simpson is probably Shavemac Finest (although that's quite a bit apart) and I preferred the Oumo Manchuria over the Finest.
As I understand it, Manchurian is just a name that can be applied as each manufacturer sees fit. I would not expect the two manufacturers to be the same grade just based on the name.
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- #8
Thanks that is reassuring as shavemsc since respected brush maker.
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- #9
Noted. Do you find Simpson brushes to have different characteristics and feel fro other badger brushes made by other manufacturers?
I've tried a couple SHD and Manchurian knots from Oumo/Maggard/etc. They're very soft. Very very soft. Too soft in my opinion. You almost can't feel them at all when face lathering... it's like rubbing a very soft towel on your face, not a knot of hair. I have not tried a Simpson Manchurian that I can remember, but I've had other Simpson two band, and while it's nice soft hair... it hasn't been treated until all character is gone the way a lot of these "gel tip" knots have been.
Some people love that ultra-soft feel. I don't. I keep a couple vintages with old Golden European badger hair because it's NATURALLY that soft and I find them quite unique and fun to use on occasion... but as a daily brush, not for me.
I want to know there's a brush lathering when I'm lathering. I also find less-treated badger knots load and lather better. Because of that, the only knots I've gotten and kept from this current generation of Chinese knots (Oumo, APshave, Maggard, etc) are the mixed knots... where the boar makes up for what is lost from the badger hair treatments.
The less treated two band badger hairs (basically anything more than a few years old, and I would assume current brushes from most of the older manufacturers who make their own knots (Simpson, Semogue, Plisson, etc)... are a very different hair than the current "Manchurian" from the chinese knot makers that has been softened up at the tips to such an extreme degree. At least I hope so. I'd be very depressed if the two bands that are actually stiff all the way to the tips and really exemplify what made two band such a nice hair are gone because this current "gel tip" craze has made the Chinese hair producers treat all two band badger hair to such an extreme degree.
I fully expect (and hope) the next revolution in Chinese knots will be to offer a more "natural" knot that goes back to what two band was a decade ago, where it isn't as soft as three band... because it's not three band, but it offers much more backbone, better loading and lathering, and a pleasant scrub that lets you know this isn't some ultra-premium silvertip knot where the only concern was softness.
Some people love that ultra-soft feel. I don't. I keep a couple vintages with old Golden European badger hair because it's NATURALLY that soft and I find them quite unique and fun to use on occasion... but as a daily brush, not for me.
I want to know there's a brush lathering when I'm lathering. I also find less-treated badger knots load and lather better. Because of that, the only knots I've gotten and kept from this current generation of Chinese knots (Oumo, APshave, Maggard, etc) are the mixed knots... where the boar makes up for what is lost from the badger hair treatments.
The less treated two band badger hairs (basically anything more than a few years old, and I would assume current brushes from most of the older manufacturers who make their own knots (Simpson, Semogue, Plisson, etc)... are a very different hair than the current "Manchurian" from the chinese knot makers that has been softened up at the tips to such an extreme degree. At least I hope so. I'd be very depressed if the two bands that are actually stiff all the way to the tips and really exemplify what made two band such a nice hair are gone because this current "gel tip" craze has made the Chinese hair producers treat all two band badger hair to such an extreme degree.
I fully expect (and hope) the next revolution in Chinese knots will be to offer a more "natural" knot that goes back to what two band was a decade ago, where it isn't as soft as three band... because it's not three band, but it offers much more backbone, better loading and lathering, and a pleasant scrub that lets you know this isn't some ultra-premium silvertip knot where the only concern was softness.
Most of the higher end of Oumo badgers are very soft but they also sell less-treated badgers as well. They're called White-tip knots and they're minimally treated, giving for more scrub and feel on the face. They're also a lot cheaper than Manchuria badgers, maybe half as much.
I prefer their treated SHDs as they give just enough scrub for me. I do enjoy the mixed knot as well but I reserve it for heavy growths; using it daily would give me brush burns.
Thanks Timeclo,
I was aware of those, but do they offer them in the density of the premium knots? The issue I had with those sort of knots in the past is their density is subpar.
I was aware of those, but do they offer them in the density of the premium knots? The issue I had with those sort of knots in the past is their density is subpar.
Their density is good. The 26mm WT bulb knot was too dense for me with a lot of backbone, so I traded it away. I enjoy the 24mm Fan WT knot as it has good balance of density/backbone/softness.
Owen Bawn
Garden party cupcake scented
This is the only Oumo knot I have. It is their 'budget' knot that I believe costs about $15-17, put into an Ever Ready 200 handle. I got it on ebay (probably from one of you guys!) from a man who reknots & sells vintage brushes (these are his photos). I really like it. The brush has a fair amount of scrub, stopping just short of scritch. Pretty dense, too. Despite the Oumo ad claiming it has gel tips, mine hasn't got them, and that's fine by me. I too like to feel the brush on my face. Good value for the price.
That guy does great work restoring the handles, I wish he sold his restored handles without knots.
Owen Bawn
Garden party cupcake scented
My plan was to find an old Ever Ready brush on ebay for short money and send it to Rudy Vey for a Shavemac 2 band. But I saw this Ever Ready restoration at a decent price and it satisfied that itch... at least for the time being.
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- #17
Thanks for that comparison on the difference between the oumo treated gel tips and the natural feel of the Simpsons.
Don't know about the "Manchurian" moniker, but I have two Simpsons - #3 Duke and X2L Colonel in Best - and both are probably the softest brushes I own. Very dense knots, plenty of backbone, not as floppy as my Kents - and slightly softer than my Shavemacs in Pure. Have held up well, and I would guess years of life left. There’s a reason for their reputation.
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- #19
Thanks for your reply. Your experience of Simpson brushes seems to be the opposite of what SliceofLife experienced so I'm back to square one again lol
He's using Best, which is most likely three band. Totally different hair than two band. Though Simpson has definitely sold some "Best" brushes with two band, they're the exception, not the rule.
I quite like Simpson best. Soft but not too soft... but I've heard some people complain about variance. All mine have been pretty consistent.
I quite like Simpson best. Soft but not too soft... but I've heard some people complain about variance. All mine have been pretty consistent.
