Are DE, SE razors inefficient? A serious question

[80211ac]

I have been using on and off DE,SE, Straight and Cartridge razors for years. One thing that I have found with DE,SE is the number of passes required. Regardless of an efficient or aggressive razor and blade combination, Why do you need to do a minimum of 2 and any number of passes for the upper limit to get a decent shave when compared to say a 5 blade cartridge razor which done properly can give you BBS in one pass?

Please ignore the cost element in this discussion.


Are DE,SE razors inefficient and hence Gillette and others moved away from it? Is it science versus nostalgia for the current state of affairs?


Any views?




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[Lightcs1776]

I've always needed at least two passes with any razor, including 5 bladed cartridges for a smooth shave; one with the grain and one against the grain. I don't need a third pass but usually do anyway simply because I enjoy the shaves, especially the smell of woodsy soaps.

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[Quinner30]

I have been using on and off DE,SE, Straight and Cartridge razors for years. One thing that I have found with DE,SE is the number of passes required. Regardless of an efficient or aggressive razor and blade combination, Why do you need to do a minimum of 2 and any number of passes for the upper limit to get a decent shave when compared to say a 5 blade cartridge razor which done properly can give you BBS in one pass?

Please ignore the cost element in this discussion.


Are DE,SE razors inefficient and hence Gillette and others moved away from it? Is it science versus nostalgia for the current state of affairs?


Any views?




Sent from my H60-L02 using Tapatalk

Can you really ever do a one pass shave with 3, 4, or 5 blades contacting your skin? Or, is that 3, 4, or 5 passes per stroke?

 

[Jacquers]

You could probably do a 1 pass atg shave with a DE and get a very nice smooth result.

 

[BigJoe]

From what I have read a cartridge is more efficient for most. However it is at a risk of ingrown hairs and scarring from such. I switched over do to the cost of cartridges and my face was turning ashen from the chemicals in the canned goo.

 

[Surgeon]

I always found that my 1-pass shaves (I do those often) were always much closer with a DE than with my mach3. It's the first thing I noticed after my first shave with my former weishi which was very mild to start with. Might just be my face/beard though...

 

[Invicta]

You are trying to compare apples and pears. The multi blade cartridge is applying a number of blades in each pass whereas the DE is one blade per pass. I always found the cartridge needed a second ATG pass for a really close shave, so that made four blades in 2 passes (I never got beyond the Atra/Contour). Most times I accepted the one pass with the cartridge and a few touch ups as I was less fussy then.
I do a 4-pass shave with the DE and get DFS; trouble getting BBS on the collar line.
The cartridge hysteresis principle is that the following blade(s) shave closer whilst the hair is pulled slightly out of it's follicle. The DE has always been a progressive reduction on each pass principle so does need a minimum of two passes but with multi-direction hair growth, it needs three or more passes.
I don't think men bother about BBS in the early days of the DE as they were happy with a reasonably close daily shave without having to use a straight razor. Expectation has changed since those days.

 

[rabidus]

I have to shave in 3 different directions with any razor to BBS my face. More blades equals less strokes.

Depending on the DE or SE's blade exposure, the shave will last allot longer than a cart. One blade is better for my face.

 

[engblom]

Even with cartridges, I would need to do two passes: one WTG and ATG.

With DE both the bar/comb and the cap work like a "leveler" lifting the blade away from the skin if you got the angle too steep or too shallow. Some razors got an incredible narrow range of angles giving close shaves, while other, like Mühle R41 allows almost any angle to shave close. Just test some razors on a table to see at what angle you need to keep them for the blade to touch the surface.

Most cartridges got a hinge keeping the cartridge at the right angle and because of this you get a close shave without needing to think about keeping the right angle.

After a lot of practicing and with good technique you will get almost any razor to shave the same close as a cartridge.

 

[Cumberland Sausage]

On the odd occasions I use a cart razor I find I need at least two passes to get a half decent shave (but nowhere near BBS), while the results of even a three-pass cart shave are not as good as from the same method with a DE. Short answer, for me, is that DE razors are more effective as well as being nicer to use. And, of course, DE shaving is very much cheaper, as we all know.

 

[JimmyHAD]

I had begun shaving in the early 1960s with DEs. In the early '70s I switched to the two blade Gillette 'Good News' disposables shortly after they were introduced IIRC. My routine was one pass ATG and call it good. In 2006 a friend found B&B and began shaving with DEs. I was surprised you could still get blades for those things.
He was explaining his reasoning for shaving this way and told me he lathered, shaved, rinsed and re-lathered, did another shave in a different direction and repeated the process for a third time.
I was incredulous, why on earth would you do more than one pass? Anyway, he told me about the 'gradual stubble removal technique.' So with all of this fascinating new information I became intrigued, and it wasn't long after that I was combing ebay for old Gillette DEs. So it could be said that I began to learn to shave properly/correctly, in 2007.

 

[jcs266]

Multi-blade razors give me ingrown hairs on lower neck. They cost a fortune for cartridges.

My DE costs me 10 to 20 cents per blade and gives me a great shave in two passes. Zero ingrowns.

 

[DCRIII]

I've always needed at least two passes with any razor, including 5 bladed cartridges for a smooth shave; one with the grain and one against the grain. I don't need a third pass but usually do anyway simply because I enjoy the shaves, especially the smell of woodsy soaps.

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Couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[Joma12]

You still have to do multiple passes with a cartridge razor if you want anything beyond a DFS. The true efficiency with cartridges comes from the fact that you have to bear down with some pressure for the pass. From my standpoint, DE/SE is more efficient (obviously). With a cartridge you have to continuously grind ATG until it's as smooth as you want or bloody and irritated. With DE/SE, you can make each blade's pass count rather than making multiple mistakes in a single pass. Besides, I'm not willing to sacrifice my neck to experiment doing 5 WTG passes, 5 XTG passes, 5 ATG passes with a DE.

 

[jar_]

You are trying to compare apples and pears. The multi blade cartridge is applying a number of blades in each pass whereas the DE is one blade per pass. I always found the cartridge needed a second ATG pass for a really close shave, so that made four blades in 2 passes (I never got beyond the Atra/Contour). Most times I accepted the one pass with the cartridge and a few touch ups as I was less fussy then.
I do a 4-pass shave with the DE and get DFS; trouble getting BBS on the collar line.
The cartridge hysteresis principle is that the following blade(s) shave closer whilst the hair is pulled slightly out of it's follicle. The DE has always been a progressive reduction on each pass principle so does need a minimum of two passes but with multi-direction hair growth, it needs three or more passes.
I don't think men bother about BBS in the early days of the DE as they were happy with a reasonably close daily shave without having to use a straight razor. Expectation has changed since those days.

I love it when folk use "hysteresis" properly in a sentence.

Life is more than mere efficiency.

I could write with a ball point or rollerball. But I choose not to.

I could wear long pants. But I choose not to.

I could drink Lite beer. But I choose not to.

I could even shave using the same tools every day. But I choose not to.

 

[honeybadger79]

Couldn't tell you. At the age of 38, I switched from cartridge razors & can cream to traditional wet, DE shaving.

3.5 years later, I have hardly an incling of even trying a cart again for comparison. I'd like to assume that if carts were so great, I'd desire trying them again. Maybe some day I will. For now though, I still gravitate to DE

 

[GlazedBoker]

$$$ Dollars vs Sense if you ask me. Any method can provide a very nice close shave. It is all a move to maximize profits while minimizing costs. Cartridges easy to mass produce, low cost = maximum $$$ profit. All other forms of shaving, not so profitable.

 

[Bookie]

Depends since it's a YMMW area.
I can get similar results with both cartridge/disposable and DE.

Aggressive safety razor- closer shave
Sharper (aggressive?) blade- easier cutting without pulling

In the end for me only difference is if I want a bbs/dfs I'll have to go either ATG or XTG with both DE and fusion.
So mild razor sharper blade is weapon of choice.

 

[Bob Vdr]

I have been using on and off DE,SE, Straight and Cartridge razors for years. One thing that I have found with DE,SE is the number of passes required. Regardless of an efficient or aggressive razor and blade combination, Why do you need to do a minimum of 2 and any number of passes for the upper limit to get a decent shave when compared to say a 5 blade cartridge razor which done properly can give you BBS in one pass?

In my experience, the opposite applies: I get a lot closer in one pass with a DE than a cartridge (Fusion, Mach3, Wilkinson's, Schick's, Dorco's, etc). I cannot recall ever getting a BBS shave with any of the carts I've used in my life, no matter how many passes I did. I never tried the Feather cart razor so I leave some room for doubt.
If somebody can get BBS in one pass with a cart all I can say is "lucky you!".

Are DE,SE razors inefficient and hence Gillette and others moved away from it? Is it science versus nostalgia for the current state of affairs?

Again, my experience is pretty much the opposite.
And I don't believe the transition to carts was made for the sake of science (or even for the sake of progress), as it was for the sake of money.

 

[guyakaguy]

Any cartridge or disposable razors I've ever used have only provided meh shaves for me.

The amount of pressure I have to use and the almost constant buffing I have to do to end up still being able to feel the stubbly whiskers and ending up with Nick's and irritation isn't efficient to me. Any disp/cart that has a lubricating strip doesn't after I use it once and if there's any left when I'm done it looks like I pushed the razor up against an electric wire bench brush.

Carts and disposables might seem more efficient to some, but they're not to me even if we're not discussing the cost. If we're talking about cost there's no comparison whatsoever between carts and SE/DE razors and blades.

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