What's new

Are cheap badgers a fair representation...

Hi,

I am new to DE but have been using a shaving brush and cream for a few years with the dreaded cartridge. Was an el cheapo Omega boar. When I switched to DE I upgraded to a much nicer Omega 80280 boar which I am very happy with.

But I am now curious about how a badger would feel in comparison. I have been thinking of getting one of the numerous cheap badger brushes just to see what the difference is. I use Tabac soap and bowl lather.

So do you think one of the cheap badger brushes (<$40) will give me a good idea of the differences between boar and badger ? Or do I need to up my budget to make a fair comparison ?

I realise that within the badger ranks there is a range of softness etc. but I assume they share the basic characterstics ? i.e. you could tell in a blind test if you have a boar or badger.

thanks
__________________
Robin
 
So do you think one of the cheap badger brushes (<$40) will give me a good idea of the differences between boar and badger ? Or do I need to up my budget to make a fair comparison ?

I realise that within the badger ranks there is a range of softness etc. but I assume they share the basic characterstics ? i.e. you could tell in a blind test if you have a boar or badger.

thanks

Absolutely. Badgers are softer, and are often denser than boars, given the hair is softer, so more needs packing in. A non dense badger will be soft and floppy. Some boars are very soft too, but in a different way, that being, soft at the tips, but retaining firmness in the knot. You can tell the difference.

But a badger won't make any better lather, or provide any significant performance improvements IMO. Most of it comes down to preference - I have a $100 silvertip. but barely use it now; it's fat, soft and moppy, which it's meant to be.

A good boar has all the softness I want, but I can feel it giving me feedback as I face lather. The Silvertip doesn't do that very well for me.
 
Absolutely. Badgers are softer, and are often denser than boars, given the hair is softer, so more needs packing in. A non dense badger will be soft and floppy. Some boars are very soft too, but in a different way, that being, soft at the tips, but retaining firmness in the knot. You can tell the difference.

But a badger won't make any better lather, or provide any significant performance improvements IMO. Most of it comes down to preference - I have a $100 silvertip. but barely use it now; it's fat, soft and moppy, which it's meant to be.

I think this post while well intended miss characterizes badgers. He is exactly right that in the end the lather will be very very similar, but a badger is not by definition floppy. As a matter of fact most Omega boars I have used, I consider floppy compared to many of my short loft badger brushes. The difference as stated above is a preference thing. A good dense badger brush set at a proper loft will not be floppy at all, and I would say can have even more backbone than many boars. Thats not to say every badger will be this way, but if you know what your looking for you can get it.

Badgers have the benefit of a much more diverse number of products. You can find them in many more combination than you can boars. With boars you are stuck with the homologous Omega lineup, or the slightly better IMO Semogue dimensions, or to be honest with a couple smaller producers who mostly seem to copy the Omega formula for loft/knot size. There are man many more badger brush makers out there, all trying to do something different, so you get much more variation. It is harder to generalize them. This is especially true if you factor in the varying grades of badger hair pure, best, super/silvertip, and you cant forget two band! That and with the labels being non standard some of these grades even mean different things from different makers.

As to weather a $40 badger is as good as a cheep boar? At this price point I'd say stick with the boar. Most brushes at this price point feel cheep. I'm sure there are some good ones, but I have not personally used them. If you can get yourself to spend another $10 or $20 though, I would suggest having asking Tony over at the Golden Nib to put together a 22mm Super Silvertip brush set at 44mm loft (for face lathering) or 48mm for an all around brush), or a extra stuffed finest 22mm set at 48mm. These brushes keep up with any of my more pricey badgers, and would give you a fantastic idea of what you can get out of a badger brush. Anyway the Super Silvertip is as soft as soft as you can find a brush, and the extra stuffed finest has amazing backbone and soft (but not as soft as the Super Silvertip) tips.

If you wanted to save yourself some of that money and you are brave enough to set you own knot he sells the knots and handles, and you could try the knot at several different knots until you figure out what might work for you. Though with your first brush, this option is most likely a bit over the top.
 
As a newbie, let me just say that, price being equal, you're generally better off buying high end in a lower category than low end in a higher category. This is true in many things (clothes come immediately to mind, thus the title of my reply).

I have a cheap badger brush (my first), and I have to say that it feels like...a cheap brush. I don't have the experience to say that I could tell boar from badger just by feel, but my brush feels cheap. It loses bristles left and right. That being said, I have seen some good reviews for Tweezerman Badger brushes, and they fall in the under $40 bucket.
 
Speaking of the Golden Nib, you may also want to consider one of their synthetic knots. I have two that I fitted to vintage handles & I think they are great - soft tips, plenty of backbone, good for bowl or face lathering, cheap & bullet proof.

I'm not saying they'd beat out a high grade badger brush - I don't own one of those, so can't offer a comparison.
 
i think this post while well intended miss characterizes badgers. He is exactly right that in the end the lather will be very very similar, but a badger is not by definition floppy. As a matter of fact most omega boars i have used, i consider floppy compared to many of my short loft badger brushes. The difference as stated above is a preference thing. A good dense badger brush set at a proper loft will not be floppy at all, and i would say can have even more backbone than many boars. Thats not to say every badger will be this way, but if you know what your looking for you can get it.

Badgers have the benefit of a much more diverse number of products. You can find them in many more combination than you can boars. With boars you are stuck with the homologous omega lineup, or the slightly better imo semogue dimensions, or to be honest with a couple smaller producers who mostly seem to copy the omega formula for loft/knot size. There are man many more badger brush makers out there, all trying to do something different, so you get much more variation. It is harder to generalize them. This is especially true if you factor in the varying grades of badger hair pure, best, super/silvertip, and you cant forget two band! That and with the labels being non standard some of these grades even mean different things from different makers.

As to weather a $40 badger is as good as a cheep boar? At this price point i'd say stick with the boar. Most brushes at this price point feel cheep. I'm sure there are some good ones, but i have not personally used them. If you can get yourself to spend another $10 or $20 though, i would suggest having asking tony over at the golden nib to put together a 22mm super silvertip brush set at 44mm loft (for face lathering) or 48mm for an all around brush), or a extra stuffed finest 22mm set at 48mm. These brushes keep up with any of my more pricey badgers, and would give you a fantastic idea of what you can get out of a badger brush. Anyway the super silvertip is as soft as soft as you can find a brush, and the extra stuffed finest has amazing backbone and soft (but not as soft as the super silvertip) tips.

If you wanted to save yourself some of that money and you are brave enough to set you own knot he sells the knots and handles, and you could try the knot at several different knots until you figure out what might work for you. Though with your first brush, this option is most likely a bit over the top.

+1
 
badger and boar offer two very different experiences. both will deliver great lather, but the feel is completely different and it really has to be experienced first hand.

try a good badger. if it's not for you, sell it on the BST and enjoy your boar all the more for having explored the alternative.
 
i purchased a ej faux ivory bbb it was about 40$ and has decently stiff bristle tips that gives me a nice exfoliating feeling, but it can also be soft with a little pressure ..i would recomend the brush or something similar, it gives the best of both worlds.
 
My suggestion would be to pick up a Tweezerman. That's my favorite all around, best bang-for-buck brush. It's about $13 on amazon. It's a little prickly, but stiff enough to tear into a soap. And I find badgers better for bowl lathering, so that should help you out, too.

If you want to pick up another on the cheap, go for a TGN/Penworks in the $50 range, or pick up a Franks Shaving on ebay. The FS tends to be less dense/more floppy than a lot of higher end badgers, but at least you'll get to experience what soft Finest/Silvertip tips feel like for under $30, as opposed to the trimmed "pure badger" tips of the tweezerman. From there you'll know more what you want (Fan vs Bulb, Dense vs Sparse, Tall vs Chubby, etc.)
 
Simple answer, no.

Most sub $40 badger brushes are plainly inferior to a "good" badger brush.

Not dense enough, too much loft, prickly in a bad way, no backbone to the hair, poorly shaped knots, etc.

My currently held "best value" options for seeing what badgers are like are a TGN finest knot @ ~45mm loft or a Simpson Berkeley 46 in Best.


There are people who like the $30ish badger brushes such as FS, Tweezerman, etc. But most of them are comparing these brushes to the $5-10 brushes they upgraded from. I don't know many people out there with a Rooney Finest or a Simpson Chubby or Duke that still use one of these "cheap" brushes.
 
Simple answer, no.

Most sub $40 badger brushes are plainly inferior to a "good" badger brush.

Not dense enough, too much loft, prickly in a bad way, no backbone to the hair, poorly shaped knots, etc.

My currently held "best value" options for seeing what badgers are like are a TGN finest knot @ ~45mm loft or a Simpson Berkeley 46 in Best.


There are people who like the $30ish badger brushes such as FS, Tweezerman, etc. But most of them are comparing these brushes to the $5-10 brushes they upgraded from. I don't know many people out there with a Rooney Finest or a Simpson Chubby or Duke that still use one of these "cheap" brushes.

What Ian said.
 
Simple answer, no.

Most sub $40 badger brushes are plainly inferior to a "good" badger brush.

Not dense enough, too much loft, prickly in a bad way, no backbone to the hair, poorly shaped knots, etc.

My currently held "best value" options for seeing what badgers are like are a TGN finest knot @ ~45mm loft or a Simpson Berkeley 46 in Best.


There are people who like the $30ish badger brushes such as FS, Tweezerman, etc. But most of them are comparing these brushes to the $5-10 brushes they upgraded from. I don't know many people out there with a Rooney Finest or a Simpson Chubby or Duke that still use one of these "cheap" brushes.

TGN knots are a great option for upgrading a cheaper brush. I had an Omega #05 brush that was giving up the ghost, but I liked the beech handle. I just drilled out the old knot and set in the TGN silvertip knot. Now I have a really nice silvertip brush and if I include the purchase price from the Omega it still comes in at less than you $40 limmit.
 
Thanks for all the feedback...

looks like the best option to give the badger a fair go would to be to save up a bit longer (especially since I am happy with what I have) and give something like the much recommended Simpson Commodore a go, or one of the other oft recommended brushes. Not a big price difference and will give me a fair idea of badger brushes.

Time to start planting hints for my birthday.

_____________________________________
Robin
 
As a vendor I can tell you that stock badgers are a hard sell these days. The point about price is right on the money, for 40.00 you get a good badger in the old days, another 10 or so and you get a custom badger here in the new market.

There are good lower end badgers out there as the market declines and wholesalers look to move product. Like anything else the internet has flooded every niche area of retailing except food.
 
I agree with some of the guys above...for $40 the best badger you'll get is a knot and handle from TGN (or get a vintage handle off of ebay and set a new knot yourself, not hard to do).
 
A LiJun & 1980 Finest Badger shaving brush is a very nice 2 band badger brush. It has very good backbone and relatively soft tips. It is very cheap, about $16 with shipping. You can't break the bank with this one :biggrin1:

Superior to the Tweerzerman IMO.
 
A LiJun & 1980 Finest Badger shaving brush is a very nice 2 band badger brush. It has very good backbone and relatively soft tips. It is very cheap, about $16 with shipping. You can't break the bank with this one :biggrin1:

Superior to the Tweerzerman IMO.

This is true...I have found both of my LiJun&1980 brushes to be far better than their price would indicate. I still prefer my restored vintage brushes, but these are definitely worth the inexpensive price.
 
For about $80 you can get a Badger (Simpson Col.) that show you why people like Badger brushes so much. I'm sure there are others, but the Col. is my favorite brush ever.
 
Top Bottom