AR sight recommend

[OkieStubble]

Great Post, Okie. I didn’t mean to suggest that an AR can’t be a jack of all trades rifle. Indeed the modular aspect makes possible what previously never really was.

But that’s the source of the temptation to over-accessorize or lose focus.

A super versatile rifle is superbly useful. I have a DDm4 setup for something like that—18” heavy barrel, 3-15x PST2, etc. consistent with the usage, it has no light and no irons. In a pinch I could clear a building with it but like you, I’m no spring chicken anymore and my eyes are fading faster with each day it seems. The huge FOV of this vortex at 3x is actually larger than many prism sights, and the illumination in a small FFP reticle allows me to use it somewhat like a red dot or more like an acog.

But is still heavy and slow for me. I’m an office guy now and since my uniform wearing days ended in my mid 30s, I’m rather stiff and weak (I had to stop running in 2015 due to sciatica, but my app logged a 45 min 10K on my last run— I was in shape). Was. Im navigating medical issues now and hope to get back to working out again soon.

After the events of 2020 in general and Kenosha in particular, I built a lightweight personal defense carbine with only irons. It’s not versatile. But it’s the best short range defensive carbine setup I could dream up. It’s super fast handling, even with a 16” bbl. I could carry it on my body all day for days on end if needed.

My rationale is therefore that while an AR can be a fantastic general purpose rifle, a defensive tool should be specialized to that purpose. Choosing function and capability you only need for offensive use to the detriment of defensive utility is not wise for a defensive rifle.

If you can only have one AR, then make it a jack of all trades and dream up whatever recipe you think best overall— leverage that awesome modularity of the platform.

But if you are building a rifle with defensive use in mind primarily—I’d specialize and skip the lpvo for that reason.

Thanks for your thoughtful and gentle rebuttal. It’s certainly something to consider.

Good post @Hohn. No worries my friend. I understand your logic for having an AR set up for specific self defense purposes.

I have used, owned, traded and sold many kinds, brands, types and builds of AR rifles.

I have helped and assisted many others in building their rifles. While it would be nice to know ahead of time of exactly what kind and type of “specific type” of scenario that will be dictated towards us in a SHFT or social disorder or societal collapse.

However, reality would suggest, that while we could/may own dozens of specifically built AR’s, the actual best AR, realistically?

Is going to actually be, the one that is in your hand at that very moment when that sudden and unexpected scenario/event is thrusted into your lap?

I would suggest, it would be a unprepared pity, if a longer range scenario suddenly presented itself and you had a short barreled, iron sighted carbine?

In the same manner, a scoped long barreled AR with no flashlight is going to help you when you have multiple targets coming thru doors and windows of a building you just entered.

People own AR’s for many purposes, whether it’s for sporting, home and self defense and/or the while very rare need, but always still a possibility, for the projection and magnification of power.

Unless it is the more predictable choices of hunting and maybe home defense? Where you can just select the purposed built AR from the many different ones in your safe?

But if you are out and about in an uncertain time or event where you feel the need to take an AR with you, I wouldn’t use the mindset of choosing that AR by eliminating by percentages of what I may or may not run into? So, the AR I will choose will be a lightweight AR, that won’t have a 10 inch or a 20 inch barrel. But the 16 inch barrel will still do what the 10” SBR will do, if I collapse the stock and use my knowledge of tactics, skill and experience to do my part?

Likewise, the 16” barrel won’t have the range of a 20 or 24”But I can still reach out 600 yards if I go prone and using skill, still do my part.

With my LPVO and my offset dot, I can shoot at 300 at 6 or 8X and just as easily? Transition to my red dot by simply turning my rifle to the offset dot and be good for CQB ranges out to 50 yds.

If it’s smell their breath close, one can drop the rifle on it’s sling and transition to a pistol.

I do get why a SBR with a light and iron sights is preferred for CQB if you “know” what you are getting into. Not maybe or most likely, but “know”.

Same with a sniper rifle. But If I can only carry one rifle, in unknown times and possibly face any number of unknown circumstances or scenario’s?

I want a lightweight Jack of all trades that has a LPVO for range, an offset red dot that even though offset, can still be used as a primary sight for anything and everything from in my face out to 50 yards.

It will also have a light as all my rifles do and back up iron sights, as all my rifles do.

 

[Hohn]

An overview of how I ended up here might help understand. I had no interest in owning an AR until I was convinced the opportunity to have one might be going away under a certain president in the early 2010s. My only experience with them was military qual on clapped out A2s back in the day. I was never a "gun guy" at all until I was nearly 40. I didn't grow up hunting or having any firearms in the home.

I'd read ARs were relatively easy to build, but I wanted my first foray to be a factory rifle, and a good one. This was because I wanted the certainty of not regretting getting the best I could afford if the future didn't provide opportunities to buy one, and I didn't want to have to trust my life potentially to my first or only build. So following my logic of "every person's first centerfire rifle should be a .223, and everyone's first .223 should be an AR" I bought my DD V11pro--18" rifle gas, heavy-ish barrel. I thought a rifle fairly close to original AR spec of 20" bbl and rifle gas would be best for long term reliability and ammo pickiness-- that combination had been in service for decades and was clearly sorted out.

I bought it, shot enough ammo through it to satisfy myself that it was reliable, and kind of just let it sit. I later took up reloading mostly for the ammo security aspect of it, as I had no intention of becoming a higher volume shooter. Well, you know how that goes. I started shooting quite a bit more as I got into load development and ammo testing.

A friend invited me to go match shooting, saying there was a new division my existing DD would qualify for, and you shot it prone off a bipod. My DD had been wearing a 12x SWFA for mostly load development testing, so I went to the match with a box of 73ELDs of a recipe that had performed well in my testing. After shooting my first strings at 300, 500, and 600, my shooting buddy casually dropped the tidbit that "I think you just set a new club record for that division." Well, the miserable day of shooting in the rain ended up being worthwhile and it was actually five separate but related club records for NRA "midrange AR Tactical". I was downplaying it as beginner's luck, but my buddy is CMP Distinguished Marksman and had shot that division before as had many top shooters in the club. So setting those records in my first match wasn't just nothing.

I was hooked. I started to build out the rifle a bit more suited for consistent use in "midrange" shooting from 300-600 yards. Eventually I built a new lower for it because I wanted to leave the original DD lower unmolested and wanted something with a trigger and buttstock more suited to match shooting. The SD3g trigger and carbine buttstock just isn't great for prone match shooting off a bipod.

When it was done I had a pretty solid match setup overall-- PST2 3x-15x, Geissele HSNM trigger in a new lower with a UBR setup for A5 buffer. It's a great shooter off the bipod. (btw the UBR and A5h3 setup is positively addictive, it's so incredibly smooth.)

There's only one problem I had now. I had only a single AR and it was pushing 9.5# in match form. And while I'd satisfied myself it was plenty accurate all the way to 600y (I've put 20/20 inside 12" at 600y with it in competition and 14/20 inside 3" at 300y so it's a legit 70% sub moa at 300y), I no longer had a rifle I'd really want to carry around all day. It was sub optimal but an upgrade I'd get around to addressing later. I started collecting some spare parts, a couple extra lowers just in case. I didn't bother with uppers because I thought they'd be easier to assemble as they aren't the serialized part.

Then 2020 happened and the world lost its mind. Kenosha happened. I felt an urgency to build the kind of rifle I could carry all day if I needed to. I started to formulate the requirements for a carry rifle that would complement my heavy* "match rifle."

*(Heavy is a relative term, as the standard competition service rifle is typically a 20" AR weighing about 15#--they actually add weight!)

Requirements:
-- Save weight wherever you can and where it makes sense to, but don't compromise reliability or durability or terminal effect within its operating range (80% <50y, never beyond 200y)
-- No exotic parts that are swiss cheesed for weight reduction or billet titanium this or that, just sensible proven components.
-- Build the upper with parts you can source in late 2020
-- Effective offhand to 50y, supported to 100y on a human size target (IPSC plate).


I started with the barrel, and it was an easy choice to go with DD again. My experience with the heavy 18" was persuasive, as a CHF chrome lined barrel shouldn't be able to shoot like a cut rifle stainless match barrel. Yet it did. So I went with a light profile 16" DD barrel. This rifle won't have a very aggressive firing schedule, and need not have pinpoint accuracy on a cold bore. A light profile works fine, and the 16" length skips the SBR/Pistol hassle while still having enough MV to make even basic 55fmj highly effective. 16" gets midlength gas in my mind, so a fortuitous notification from a buddy about Brownells having them in stock and I snagged one before they sold out.

As a homebuilder, having the barrel ship with the LPGB already drilled and pinned in place is a HUGE help too. Max robustness, minimum hassle. NO worries about alignment (factory fixture drilling vs homebrew or jig or whatever).

Handguard selection and sight selection were related considerations. I wanted the simplicity and reliability of permanent irons, whether or not a cowitness RDS was later used. The problem is that I didn't want to mess with a FSB, but a handguard mounted front sight is potentially going to shift if the handguard shifts. So you can't buy a flimsy handguard. Or junk sights. And you want a longer handguard for the sight radius.

I settled on some really premium Scalarworks irons (the one true splurge) and the Centurion mlok handguard after seeing how resistant the Centurion guard was to movement. It has anti-rotation in the guard design and a rock solid barrel nut interface. Not as robust as an FSB (nothing mounted off the barrel can be as robust). But it's solid enough to inspire confidence.

I put that on the DD lower that come with my V11 and that brought the SD3g trigger to play in an application where speed is a good thing.

After testing my new build against its intended purpose, I don't feel like the RDS is needed. It does what I intended for it to do. Not really home defense per se, more like personal defense. 6.5# with full 20rd pmag.


So that's how we got here. It's WIP but I don't feel a lot of urgency to pursue the next whatever because the needs I felt most pressing are now satisfied.

 

[OkieStubble]

Great post @Hohn. It sounds like to me from your post, you are very knowledgeable and skilled in the ways of the AR.

It also sounds like you have the confidence in your build, to effectively address most of anything that can or will possibly come your way.

I feel the exact same way in the quality and effort and reasons I have put towards my Jack of all Trades build.

Which actually makes both sides of our debate, moot points?

There is a saying that proves this.

“beware of the man with just one gun. He probably knows how to use it.”

You and your experience are a great asset to this sub forum my friend. I enjoy your posts.

 

[Ad Astra]

Just an unasked-for philosopher's note: Both parties are right. Reminds me of this one ....

“How can they both be right?”/“You’re right, too.”

www.barrypopik.com

So have a really good lower and a bunch of mission-specific uppers ... then you have that one gun!

Maybe.


AA

 

[OkieStubble]

Just an unasked-for philosopher's note: Both parties are right. Reminds me of this one ....

“How can they both be right?”/“You’re right, too.”

www.barrypopik.com

So have a really good lower and a bunch of mission-specific uppers ... then you have that one gun!

Maybe.


AA

I can carry all those uppers with me in a backpack.

 

[DarthHatchet]

Take a look at the Spitfire AR. Prism scope with an etched reticle that will work even when the batteries die or we're attacked by an EMP.