Apache Strata

[Gamma]

I've had plenty of Arks with fissures that had no effect on honing. It all depends on the stone and the fissure.
If I was concerned about 'perfect' - I'd use synths exclusively. But even then, there can be similar issues.

 

[David]

It's damn near impossible to get a vintage trans without fissures or imperfections of some sort, but usually they have no effect on honing. IME

 

[eKretz]

My trans black is perfect, I thought that was uncommon with Arks. I'll be darned.

 

[David]

I'm not sure about the new ones, but a lot of the larger sized vintages have fissures. I was talking about the white or yellow trans's. the blacks don't seem to have as many.

 

[Chaloney]

After reading nelson's and then bill and Ian's impressions of these stones, I decided to get one. My intention is the same as nelsons--i like the jnat edges I've been getting but it takes a long time. A simpler process that gets to a similarly keen and smooth end would be ideal.

The remaining issue will be what to do between bevel setting and finishing on the apache. I have the jnat (which I want to move away from), I have film (which would be acceptable for now anyway), and I have a la grise coti which I've only had 1 really good edge from.

Since I had just finished cleaning up an eBay special and the apache is due to arrive tomorrow (got one of the 5x3 stones he listed this week), I decided to get the razor ready with the coti. If I can get it close, hopefully the apache will get it the rest of the way. I remembered heesoo sold a couple cotis recently and he suggested using a fair amount of pressure with them so I tried it on mine. I stopped when I got to a misty slurry (as I've read works for some). I stropped and the hht was great. I'll be trying it out in the morning. Hopefully Sunday with an apache finish.

 

[buca3152]

Theres lots of ways to bridge the 1k, a dmt slurry on your jnat or the coti, Hard to say exactly how but Im sure you can do it with what you have. I think you will like the edge and the ease of it. Let us know how you make out when you get it!

 

[Chaloney]

Theres lots of ways to bridge the 1k, a dmt slurry on your jnat or the coti, Hard to say exactly how but Im sure you can do it with what you have. I think you will like the edge and the ease of it. Let us know how you make out when you get it!

I definitely want to bridge the gap with what I have (unless I can get the apache to do a one stone thing like a coticule, but I'm not gonna get my hopes up too high), and I'm sure it's possible. Until I honed the razor today on the coticule and got what seems like it will be a good edge as is (based on hht and treetopping arm hair), I thought I might have to use the film. I'm not into collecting hones like some of you are, I'd rather spend my money on razors. Ideally I'd like to find a simple, quick, reliable, repeatable progression to a good edge and then sell the other hones. Dmt -> coticule -> apache will hopefully get me there. If not I'll try dmt -> film (will experiment to narrow down to the least number of different grits possible) -> apache.

 

[SliceOfLife]

The stone operates much more reliably and gives a significantly more comfortable shave off oil, vs water. The shave comfort and edge condition still aren't nearly on par with a Thuri, nor is the stone as foolproof; but the sharpness remains in that range. It's a very valid option in my opinion for a finisher in the $50-75 range, but I don't think I'd consider it worthwhile to invest the $150-250 the larger stones sell for. Similar to most of the recent flavors of finishers, it strikes me that there's no advantage to them over the traditional stones if they aren't beating them on cost. That said, this is probably the best I've tried of the recently "discovered" razor finishers, and if I were asked to describe it, I'd say it's what the Cnat/PHIG was celebrated as but (in my experience) didn't live up to. Its biggest fault is the loading (solved with oil and a bit of practice/care), and the lack of sufficient aggression to recess the edge allowing edge wear to overtake refinement (you actually can "overhone" (for lack of a better term) on this thing; and I've found very few hones that I can overhone on).

 

[Chaloney]

Just found out that the post office, who had the package with my hone since just after midnight, could manage to get it in the truck for today, so its rescheduled for Monday. GAH, sometimes I hate shipment tracking!

At least that means I get to use this surprisingly nice coti edge a couple more times, though.

 

[buca3152]

Just found out that the post office, who had the package with my hone since just after midnight, could manage to get it in the truck for today, so its rescheduled for Monday. GAH, sometimes I hate shipment tracking!

At least that means I get to use this surprisingly nice coti edge a couple more times, though.

Got mine today(the other was a sample) different look but same feel, took one from 1k, hideriyama suita, and AS and got nice HHT with a few palm strops, hht 4-5 after leather. Will have to shave this one tomorrow as I shaved this am. Im going to mess with some naguras to see. I see Ian has said the stone loads, how many razors and laps have you done cuz Ive honed about 5 blades on it and havent seen that at all. Not saying its false, just no evidence of it here.

 

[Bayamontate]

I've done 15-20 razors and no loading evident as of yet.

 

[TimS]

I was wondering about the loading comment as well. Stupid question, but what is the evidence of 'loading'? TIA

 

[kcb5150]

Loading is like the intermediate stage before glazing. Maybe it is the specific piece you received? If nobody else is seeing this, perhaps request an exchange?

 

[Gamma]

Loading is when the swarf embeds into the stone's working surface. Sometimes the swarf is just sitting there and it brushes away, I don't call that loading. When my finger fails to clear the swarf, and I can't 'see' the stone from a finger swipe - and I have to clear it off/out with a rubber stone or whatever, that's what I call loading.
People have said the Super Stones load easy, I don't find that to be true; with a splash of water the swarf can be brushed away.
But - the 1k C will load sometimes - there's a few tricks to get it to stop doing that though. Usually I just use the red brick rubber to clear it.
Oddly - and the 1k C can be like this, a loaded stone doesn't always look 'loaded' - but you can sense the cutting speed and consistency is off through feedback.

 

[buca3152]

I intend to refresh the stone periodically unless I start using tomo or naguras on it in use. I think that constant refreshing and refinishing of the surface is a good thing. I havent seen a need to but I may try a few tomo naguras to see whats what. It is harder than my ozuku tomo which is the hardest I have. I like what I get so far. Is it the best thing or edge? No, is it an easy way to get a keen comfortable edge? Yes. Are there other ways to get one? Yes. This hobby of ours can be done in many ways, an open mind though is necessary to look outside the "box". And maybe we will get some SEM images of this thing......LOL

 

[TimS]

Loading is like the intermediate stage before glazing. Maybe it is the specific piece you received? If nobody else is seeing this, perhaps request an exchange?

Just to be clear, I'm not seeing loading according to Gamma's definition. I think Ian is the only one to have experienced it here.

 

[Chaloney]

Well, the post office came through. Must have forgotten to scan it going onto the truck. I checked the status walking to my car after work and it had changed to "delivered!" It's about the same length as my coticule, so it feels just right in my hand. Did a couple sets of circles then about 50 x-strokes. Palm stropped about 10 times (which has never done anything for me with my jnat) and the hht improved from yesterday's loudly-pinging hht 4's to some quiet 4's and a couple spots that seemed very close to 5's. I'm looking forward to the shave in the morning.

 

[Bayamontate]

Did a couple sets of circles then about 50 x-strokes. Palm stropped about 10 times (which has never done anything for me with my jnat) and the hht improved from yesterday's loudly-pinging hht 4's to some quiet 4's and a couple spots that seemed very close to 5's. I'm looking forward to the shave in the morning.

Nice, you will be pleased.

 

[SliceOfLife]

The loading is pretty easy to feel under the razor. Clean the surface and the razor abrades evenly. A few passes and it starts slipping in some spots and clinging in others as the abrasion of the stones surface becomes intermittent. A few more passes and you can glide the razor around like you're on a piece of glass. Clean the surface again, and you're back to a evenly abrasive surface.

a loaded stone doesn't always look 'loaded' - but you can sense the cutting speed and consistency is off through feedback.

Yes, the particles are fine enough and so minimally exposed you're not ever going to get this stone to show steel on it, but it loads faster and more obviously under the razor than almost any hone I've ever used. A quick rub with a white rag or tissue, and you'll pull up a lot (relatively) of steel. Possibly a good rubbing with ones finger could work to clean the surface. I had success using the rubbing stone they sent. The problem was it was required so frequently that it would be the slowest possible honing solution I'd ever used. Switching to oil works much, much better.

 

[Chaloney]

Great shave this morinig. The apache strata seems to have added a bit of keenness without taking away any of the smoothness.