Anyone know about TV Antennas?

[mikej7193]

We are looking to cut the cable soon, and to do this, we are going to antenna. We live more or less 40 miles form the transmitters, which are in the direction/strength shown: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=0559dba4ea7bbb

We installed two antennas from Antennas Direct (the DB8 and the ClearStream 5) inside the attic with the ClearStream 5 at about 23 feet above the ground, and the DB8 about 20 feet above the ground. We are able to receive channels decently with a 10dB amplifier, except for 8.1 from Indianapolis. 18.1 has many of the same prime time shows, but not the same sports games all the time. We got 18.1 to work with an aluminum foil reflector aimed in the right direction, but we still cannot get 8.1 to come in.

We took the antenna outside on the deck, still couldn't get it. On the guard rail of the deck... couldn't get it. I sat on the roof so I was back around 17 feet or so above the ground and it still didn't come in.


We would prefer to keep it indoors if possible, but we could stick it on a pole attached to the chimney if needed.

Anyone have some experience with these and can help out?

 

[malocchio]

have you tried http://www.antennaweb.org ?

 

[Phog Allen]

It likely does not make a difference but since the digital-only television broadcasts started in 2009(I think?) some of the UHF spectrum was allocated away from television broadcasters. Whereas the UHF band use to go to 83(again, I think this is correct) it now stops in the upper 50's, frequency wise. Many stations broadcast on 'channels' higher than that but they are digital signatures, not actual frequencies related to the channel number. Our local channel 4 in Kansas City actually broadcasts on channel 24 if I am not mistaken. Anyroad, you likely know all that from the detailed work you've done with your antennae. I bring it up because a number of the antenna manufacturers had or need to have their antennas redesigned to be most efficient in the reduced number of frequencies covered by broadcasters today. I am pretty sure your Clearstream is newer design so maybe no issue at all. At least I think that is all correct.

Cheers, Todd

 

[mikej7193]

have you tried http://www.antennaweb.org ?

I've been there, and all I really could find is that it says I need a roof antenna with an amplifier for this channel. The other two channels that it says I need a roof antenna with an amplifier for are VHF.

It likely does not make a difference but since the digital-only television broadcasts started in 2009(I think?) some of the UHF spectrum was allocated away from television broadcasters. Whereas the UHF band use to go to 83(again, I think this is correct) it now stops in the upper 50's, frequency wise. Many stations broadcast on 'channels' higher than that but they are digital signatures, not actual frequencies related to the channel number. Our local channel 4 in Kansas City actually broadcasts on channel 24 if I am not mistaken. Anyroad, you likely know all that from the detailed work you've done with your antennae. I bring it up because a number of the antenna manufacturers had or need to have their antennas redesigned to be most efficient in the reduced number of frequencies covered by broadcasters today. I am pretty sure your Clearstream is newer design so maybe no issue at all. At least I think that is all correct.

Cheers, Todd

The UHF antenna we have is a DB8 Found here, but it is paired up with a dedicated directional VHF antenna Found here. Both of these in conjunction receive all of the networks, except for 8.1 from Indianapolis. 18.1 from Rossville came in without the aluminum reflector when the antenna was outside, but 8.1 came in pixelated with the antenna in the attic, and not at all on the roof a few feet lower.


It might be worth the cash to try to buy a higher powered amplifier to help the VHF stations better. The UHF stations really don't need much in terms of more power, but a bit more shouldn't hurt them.

 

[Black Adder]

If this site doesn't provide you with the answers, nothing will... www.dennysantennaservice.com.

I purchased the HD stacker antenna package from him a couple of years ago. No problems at all, although I have mine mounted on the roof. My house is kind of in a dead area for radio and TV signals, but I get pretty reliable transmission.

Denny's site has a lot of helpful information and he cuts through all the crap in telling you how to get a good signal. He also has detailed information on an attic install, although you may have to go to an outdoor installation to get the reception you want. Take a look at what he has to offer. Another site, for purchases, would be www.solidsignal.com. Good prices and pretty good service, too.

Don

 

[OldAF]

I get a lot of good info from the AVs forum http://www.avsforum.com They have a thread "Local HDTV Info and Reception" http://www.avsforum.com/f/45/local-hdtv-info-and-reception You should be able to find some info on your area there.

 

[mikej7193]

Just as an update to this in case anyone is interested in an antenna... The front of our house sticks forward of the other houses in the neighborhood by a few feet. We moved the antenna to that spot, and now we get channel 8.1 extremely clearly. It ended up just being the houses in the way blocking the signal. The reason being outside on the roof didn't help is because the part of the roof I had access to is at the back of the house, in line with a 2-story house down the street. Based on this, I HIGHLY recommend the ClearStream 5 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002E1UNWS/ if you are getting a new antenna and need to receive a few VHF channels from the same direction.

 

[Phog Allen]

Thanks Mike. We are in need of a new aerial as ours is nearly twenty years old and has seen a few knocks and bumps over the years. Besides, the Clearstream is going to be easier for us to mount. Thank you again for the update.

Cheers, Todd

 

[StillShaving]

Glad you found a position that your antenna works well in. I was going to add that I have an fairly basic antenna, something like this installed inside my attic:

What I found was that its orientation (360 degree rotation around its vertical axis) only mattered a little, while a much bigger factor in receiving a better signal was simply moving the whole unit over by 2-3 feet in order to get out from behind the middle of a roof truss. I had originally placed it there because it was easy to mount, but moving it into a more open space inside the roof really improved the reception. I did not expect that the wood bracing and small amounts of metal would have had that much affect on the signal, but apparently it did. Outside trees might have had some affect as well, but I think it was the internal roof structure which was having a bigger influence on interfering with the signal.

 

[jimmo]

Does anyone in this forum know if one would still require grounding against lightning strikes for a TV antenna if it is installed in an attic, instead of outdoors on a rooftop or pole-mounted?

Also, should one's antenna be struck by lightning and shorted out, would it ever be bad enough to catch on the house and start a fire? Or does the grounding prevent this?

And if lightning strikes, at the least damaging one's antenna, would a product guarantee allow one to obtain a replacement antenna? If not, would a homeowner's insurance policy include "acts of nature" (such as lightning strikes) to replace damaged property such as a TV antenna?

My sister has advised me against a rooftop TV antenna because of possible legal liability should roof holes leak and cause water damage to the other units in my small condominium building. While there is no specific condo rule against installation of antennas or satellite dishes (and one neighbor already has a satellite hanging off the edge of her part of the building), my sister's advice seems sound to me, especially as I have read conflicting advice online about whether rooftop antenna installations may cause leaks.

So it appears I have a few alternatives to rooftop antenna installation--the attic installation or an outdoors (but-not-on-rooftop) installation. As I understand this latter option, one may either install the antenna on the edge of, but not actually on, the roof; or adjacent to the building on a sort of pole. Is this correct, and which would be the best of all these options for picking up signals 50-100 miles away from transmitter towers? Also, how does the grounding for the pole method differ (if at all) from that of a rooftop installation?

Lastly, I recall in the days before cable TV, when most people had rooftop TV antennas, toward the end of the antenna era there were devices called rotors that allowed one to move the direction of the antenna from inside the house or building, eliminating or reducing the need to actually visit the site of the antenna to change its direction. Are rotors still used today with contemporary TV antennas? Or is positioning of the antenna completed at the time of installation?

Thank you to any and all in advance who may provide advice and answers to my questions. But please keep answers in layman's terms, as I am not an electronics whiz, nor even terribly mechanically inclined (I do know what a Phillips head screwdriver is, however, and the differences between a crosscut saw, a coping saw, and a hacksaw).

 

[coolcanuc]

Navigate over to DigitalHome. They have a great forum section that covers pretty much anything to do with home entertainment and OTA. Click on the following link.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/81-over-air-ota-digital-television/

There is a section or thread relating to grounding and more than a few people to answer your questions.

 

[hydro-magic]

Does anyone in this forum know if one would still require grounding against lightning strikes for a TV antenna if it is installed in an attic, instead of outdoors on a rooftop or pole-mounted?

Also, should one's antenna be struck by lightning and shorted out, would it ever be bad enough to catch on the house and start a fire? Or does the grounding prevent this?

And if lightning strikes, at the least damaging one's antenna, would a product guarantee allow one to obtain a replacement antenna? If not, would a homeowner's insurance policy include "acts of nature" (such as lightning strikes) to replace damaged property such as a TV antenna?

My sister has advised me against a rooftop TV antenna because of possible legal liability should roof holes leak and cause water damage to the other units in my small condominium building. While there is no specific condo rule against installation of antennas or satellite dishes (and one neighbor already has a satellite hanging off the edge of her part of the building), my sister's advice seems sound to me, especially as I have read conflicting advice online about whether rooftop antenna installations may cause leaks.

So it appears I have a few alternatives to rooftop antenna installation--the attic installation or an outdoors (but-not-on-rooftop) installation. As I understand this latter option, one may either install the antenna on the edge of, but not actually on, the roof; or adjacent to the building on a sort of pole. Is this correct, and which would be the best of all these options for picking up signals 50-100 miles away from transmitter towers? Also, how does the grounding for the pole method differ (if at all) from that of a rooftop installation?

Lastly, I recall in the days before cable TV, when most people had rooftop TV antennas, toward the end of the antenna era there were devices called rotors that allowed one to move the direction of the antenna from inside the house or building, eliminating or reducing the need to actually visit the site of the antenna to change its direction. Are rotors still used today with contemporary TV antennas? Or is positioning of the antenna completed at the time of installation?

Thank you to any and all in advance who may provide advice and answers to my questions. But please keep answers in layman's terms, as I am not an electronics whiz, nor even terribly mechanically inclined (I do know what a Phillips head screwdriver is, however, and the differences between a crosscut saw, a coping saw, and a hacksaw).

On grounding your antenna. Electricity follows the path of least resistance to ground (While not absolutely correct, that's true enough for our discussion at least). So grounding is an attempt to give lightning that path it wants so it won't find another easier path like through your television or some other path that could cause a lot of damage, including fire. If lightning strikes your antenna, the most costly damage will be to the TV it's hooked to so if you're worried about insurance, you might want to make sure that would be covered too.

If you want to receive a station from 50 or 100 miles away, I don't want to say it's not possible but it will only be possible if both antennas are pretty high above the ground and there's no terrain between them. Just as an example, if your antenna is above a typical two-story house roof at say 30 feet above the ground, the transmitting antenna 50 miles away would have to be 900 feet above the ground and there could be no obstructing terrain between your two antennas before you will receive that signal. At that kind of distance, you'll also need a good quality, high gain directional antenna to pull in enough signal. I'm not even going to do the math for a station 100 miles away. This is why most transmitters are on hilltops and have tall antennas but 900 feet would be a stretch in most places.

Antenna rotators are still available and very useful when you want to turn a directional antenna toward transmitters in different places.

 

[billwave]

Does anyone in this forum know if one would still require grounding against lightning strikes for a TV antenna if it is installed in an attic, instead of outdoors on a rooftop or pole-mounted?

Also, should one's antenna be struck by lightning and shorted out, would it ever be bad enough to catch on the house and start a fire? Or does the grounding prevent this?

And if lightning strikes, at the least damaging one's antenna, would a product guarantee allow one to obtain a replacement antenna? If not, would a homeowner's insurance policy include "acts of nature" (such as lightning strikes) to replace damaged property such as a TV antenna?

My sister has advised me against a rooftop TV antenna because of possible legal liability should roof holes leak and cause water damage to the other units in my small condominium building. While there is no specific condo rule against installation of antennas or satellite dishes (and one neighbor already has a satellite hanging off the edge of her part of the building), my sister's advice seems sound to me, especially as I have read conflicting advice online about whether rooftop antenna installations may cause leaks.

So it appears I have a few alternatives to rooftop antenna installation--the attic installation or an outdoors (but-not-on-rooftop) installation. As I understand this latter option, one may either install the antenna on the edge of, but not actually on, the roof; or adjacent to the building on a sort of pole. Is this correct, and which would be the best of all these options for picking up signals 50-100 miles away from transmitter towers? Also, how does the grounding for the pole method differ (if at all) from that of a rooftop installation?

Lastly, I recall in the days before cable TV, when most people had rooftop TV antennas, toward the end of the antenna era there were devices called rotors that allowed one to move the direction of the antenna from inside the house or building, eliminating or reducing the need to actually visit the site of the antenna to change its direction. Are rotors still used today with contemporary TV antennas? Or is positioning of the antenna completed at the time of installation?

Thank you to any and all in advance who may provide advice and answers to my questions. But please keep answers in layman's terms, as I am not an electronics whiz, nor even terribly mechanically inclined (I do know what a Phillips head screwdriver is, however, and the differences between a crosscut saw, a coping saw, and a hacksaw).

A lot to unpack here, but let me first start by saying that my predecessor hydro-magic gives a good response re: reasons for grounding. For those reasons, you should definitely ground your antenna if installed on your roof (even if not a legal requirement in your jurisdiction).

As for not installing on the roof, legally you are allowed to do so by FCC OTARD rules. Installing on your roof will not definitely lead to leaks or liabilities, if the antenna is properly installed.

Regarding attic installations, keep in mind you can lose 40-50% of your TV signal due to interference by your house structure, attic insulation, existing radiant barrier, etc.). Also, while grounding generally protects your TV equipment from the consequences of thunderstorms (i.e., static discharge) it's hard to say what will happen if your antenna suffers a direct lightning hit (I have no experience with that thankfully). Proper grounding should direct the discharge to the house grounding wire and underground and your equipment should be ok (if not the antenna).

Many if not most people don't ground their attic-installed antenna as this is simply not exposed to the elements. But there is one exception in that some ground the coax in order to avoid the ill effects of leakage of AC current from the TV (yes this is slight but can be a source of interference as well as a safety issue). Just wanted to mention that.

Lastly, regarding rotors. My predecessor again gives a good answer and I just wanted to complement it with the caveat that if you're connecting the antenna to several TVs, not everyone in your household will be pleased if they're watching a channel from one station/tower and you decide to rotate the directional antenna to another... also, if you're using a DVR to record programs make sure the antenna is pointed at the correct station to begin with, otherwise you might miss your episode. just saying

 

[Daiķon]

Glad to hear I'm not he only one who went antenna. Good luck!

 

[Benzadmiral]

I'm thinking about ditching the cable too and spending that money on a good Internet connection. Most of the TV channels I prefer now on basic cable are things like MeTV and Heroes & Icons, which I understand are digital over-the-air channels. I live in what passes for a midsized city. If I buy a modern TV (my current CRT TV is from 1996), will I be able to receive the local digital channels without an antenna? What would I need an antenna for?

And is the Weather Channel accessible OTA?

 

[Black Adder]

If I buy a modern TV (my current CRT TV is from 1996), will I be able to receive the local digital channels without an antenna? What would I need an antenna for?

And is the Weather Channel accessible OTA?

You'd need the antenna to pick up the signal over the air. Now, you MAY be able to pick up some channels, but it'd be pretty sketchy. An antenna is still your best bet. This site can answer a lot of your questions you may have:

Outdoor TV Antennas & Accessories - Denny's TV Antenna

I purchased an HD Stacker kit from him a few years ago, and had it mounted on the roof. I got very strong signals from all the local stations. When I had my roof redone in 2016, I installed a smaller antenna in the attic. My reception dropped significantly. I'll be setting up an outside antenna hook up when the weather turns a little less frigid. I'm not an agent for Denny, nor do I work for him. He's just got some good practical information on his site.

In my market region, yes, the Weather Channel is available OTA.

Don

 

[Macfrommichigan]

Wait. Aside from Jeopardy!, there isn't much worth watching.