Any Benefit to Lapping a BBW to a High Grit?

[Alum of Potash]

Let's say I had a set of 6" x 2" 1k, 3k, and 6k synth stones and BBW to match. Would there be any benefit to lapping the BBW to something in the 1000x-2000x range and then using it as a finisher after the 6k?

 

[stone and strop]

Not sure you would gain much Alan.
The BBW I have used is a very nice 4-6k at best. I will admit I have never shaved off of it so I am surmising from the scope.
I'll try to remember to give it a go and let you know though.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Thanks Paul. I picked up a set of the new Sharpening Supplies 6" x 2" synth water stones and threw in a boxed BBW as it was marked for half the price of the unboxed ones and gave me free shipping. I have a smaller BBW that's streaked diagonally, different from other BBWs, and that one I can shave off of pretty comfortably. So I was wondering, if this one as received can be smoothed further, maybe it might work more like a slate or polished Arkansas stone off the 6k synth. It seems pretty resistant to water penetration, so maybe it might work well with oil too. Perhaps the relative softness (auto-slurrying) will render the polishing moot though. Oil might help there.

 

[stone and strop]

Quite possible.
I have one that is really nice, far better than the yellow coticule side.
I'm hoping to give it a go this weekend. I'll take a razor to 5k then go BBW and see where it stands.
TBH I've never shaved with less than an 8k so it may be a short trial but I will try anything.

 

[Dick peck]

I've often thought if the bbw was all you had,it's not a horrible end to the progression. I think I will do a test shave off of mine as well.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Very good. May the best BBW win. I'll give it a shot start of next week. My guess is that the smaller one I like with the diagonal streaks was cut differently. If most of them are cut so that the honing surface lies parallel to horizontal layering, that one may have been cut so that the horizontal layering becomes the honing surface.

 

[stone and strop]

Ok, just finished up. Took a healthy shave ready edge back to 3k, then 5, then BBW for 80- 100.
The results were surprising. It was pretty smooth from the get go - with the grain felt like a mediocre 8k edge.
Further shaving feeling more resistance against and across the grain. Still pretty smooth but not as good as an 8k.
Mild irritation at the completion feeling a tiny bit raw.
So an estimate for me is between 6-8k, a little closer to 6.
I had used this BBW a while back on a kitchen knife but it was too smooth on the kitchen knife for what I wanted. I expected it to have a bit of tooth to it.
Funny, when you mentioned the diagonal lines on yours I was sure mine had the same thing but wanted to be positive before stating so.
Here is a photo. Its best seen on the dry stone. It was lapped to 2k back and forth lengthwise so the diagonal you see is the make up of the stone itself.

Fun, and a usable edge in a pinch, but I wouldn't want to shave with this all the time.

 

[kelbro]

I always used my BBW side of my natural combo coticule for KEEN. Then the yellow coticule side for SMOOTH.

 

[eKretz]

Smoothing ANY stone will give you an improved edge. However, one problem with that is unless it's a very hard stone with a tight binder, that smoothed surface will just get pulled right loose unless you're ever so gentle with the honing. Even then sometimes. Another issue is if the abrasive isn't quite a lot harder than the steel, it may do nothing to the steel on a large surface area like a razor bevel unless you use tape to concentrate on the apex.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Thanks for the test Paul, and for the further remarks guys. I'll give the smoothing a shot and attempt to follow eKretz's remarks about taking things light. I'm wonder if fewer strokes might be a benefit after a higher synth sequence, sort of like some folks use a coticule a little bit to smooth a 12k synth edge. Might not work off this way off a 6k, so more strokes would be in order there.

Not the greatest picture, but I'm attaching one with the BBW with diagonal streaking that I was talking about, shown on the left, next to one with more conventional texturing. The one on the left has yielded a pretty decent shaving edge from my experience.

 

[stone and strop]

Not sure I've seen one with dark streaks like that on the BBW.
Are they mineral streaks?
Perhaps Manganese similar to the ones found on the yellow side of cotis.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Yes, they do look mineral, although I'm no expert on this. I wrote to Ardennes once, asking if they had anything similar in a larger size, and they never wrote back, which made me think they were too busy to indulge in BBW requests like they sometimes do with coticules.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Lapped my current BBW up to 2000x. Absolutely no polish, and slurry was generated at each stage. Looks pretty much as it would off 320x-400x. Once it's dried out, I'm thinking to charge it with jojoba oil (liquid vegetable wax) to calm the surface down. Following Paul's stone and strop example, I'll dip down to the 3k synth for starters with a currently-shaving razor, followed by the 6k synth, then shave with it initially, followed some laps on the liquid wax-coated BBW used "dry" to see if that improves or diminishes things...

 

[Alum of Potash]

Took a 4/8 full-hollow straight I haven't used in a while and made one swipe on my face to see what the shaving edge was like there (it needed a touch-up). Did a few dozen laps on the 3k synth followed by another few dozen on the 6k synth followed by stropping on leather. Made another swipe on my face and could feel that the edge was seriously degraded from where it had been before. Not even close for shaving, making me wonder about the 6k rating. Followed this with the 2000x lapped BBW used with a thin coating of jojoba oil, just enough to cover the surface. A few dozen laps on this, followed by another stropping--3 laterally-biassed passes on old firehose linen followed by the same on old hardware store shell and then a few dozen, light up-and-down laps on the shell. Returned to shaving and the edge was significantly improved! A very smooth shave which nonetheless could have been just a little bit closer. Edge seemed to remain the same throughout the entire shaving process. After shaving, I did a few dozen more laps on the jojoba-oiled BBW, followed by stropping as before. Gonna try to leave it like this for a little while to see what happens.

So why the jojoba oil? 2-3 years back, I was experimenting with using it on Arkansas stones. At first, it worked quite well, but then gradually, it started to build up on the surface, blocking the cutting properties of the stones. So my thought here is to load up the BBW surface with it, so as to make the BBW act finer than it would with water.

 

[stone and strop]

Was it as smooth as you wanted it? Mine was smooth but not where it should be relatively speaking.
Let us know if the next is any improvement over the first

 

[lightfoot]

It’s interesting that you posted this thread when you did. I came into possession of a Coticule/BBW combo and I’ll be shaving off it in the morning. However I’m doing this for somewhat different reasons. I’m doing a test shave from this stone (finishing with trace slurry) just as part of my initial evaluation of the stone. I’m trying to figure out where the stone belongs in a sequence. It’s intriguing how dramatically different the shave can be based on the prior stone used. How little or how much slurry was used and a few other variables can play in as well. Good luck with the next shave.

 

[eKretz]

Took a 4/8 full-hollow straight I haven't used in a while and made one swipe on my face to see what the shaving edge was like there (it needed a touch-up). Did a few dozen laps on the 3k synth followed by another few dozen on the 6k synth followed by stropping on leather. Made another swipe on my face and could feel that the edge was seriously degraded from where it had been before. Not even close for shaving, making me wonder about the 6k rating. Followed this with the 2000x lapped BBW used with a thin coating of jojoba oil, just enough to cover the surface. A few dozen laps on this, followed by another stropping--3 laterally-biassed passes on old firehose linen followed by the same on old hardware store shell and then a few dozen, light up-and-down laps on the shell. Returned to shaving and the edge was significantly improved! A very smooth shave which nonetheless could have been just a little bit closer. Edge seemed to remain the same throughout the entire shaving process. After shaving, I did a few dozen more laps on the jojoba-oiled BBW, followed by stropping as before. Gonna try to leave it like this for a little while to see what happens.

So why the jojoba oil? 2-3 years back, I was experimenting with using it on Arkansas stones. At first, it worked quite well, but then gradually, it started to build up on the surface, blocking the cutting properties of the stones. So my thought here is to load up the BBW surface with it, so as to make the BBW act finer than it would with water.

That is a good thought. I have actually lightly polished a few very aggressive barber hones on my buffer after lapping. The abrasive sticks are wax-based and after buffing it's apparent that there's a light coat of wax on the surface. It does seem to soften the action of the hones a bit. The wax might help to prevent abrasive particles coming loose a bit better too

 

[Alum of Potash]

Was it as smooth as you wanted it? Mine was smooth but not where it should be relatively speaking.
Let us know if the next is any improvement over the first

I'm not one to obsess about smoothness in and of itself, but it did seem smooth to me as opposed to harsh--no weepers, forgiving edge, very little alum block tingle, etc. Shave could have been a little closer, that's all. Subsequent HHT after the return to the stone and strop went very well.

It’s interesting that you posted this thread when you did. I came into possession of a Coticule/BBW combo and I’ll be shaving off it in the morning. However I’m doing this for somewhat different reasons. I’m doing a test shave from this stone (finishing with trace slurry) just as part of my initial evaluation of the stone. I’m trying to figure out where the stone belongs in a sequence. It’s intriguing how dramatically different the shave can be based on the prior stone used. How little or how much slurry was used and a few other variables can play in as well. Good luck with the next shave.

Thanks. I've not used a slurry in a long time and the use of oil here is to further dampen things to prevent auto-slurrying. Prior stone here (6k synth) left a ragged edge that the BBW subsequently tamed.

 

[Alum of Potash]

That is a good thought. I have actually lightly polished a few very aggressive barber hones on my buffer after lapping. The abrasive sticks are wax-based and after buffing it's apparent that there's a light coat of wax on the surface. It does seem to soften the action of the hones a bit. The wax might help to prevent abrasive particles coming loose a bit better too

That's exactly what I'm trying to do. Somewhere along the line, I read an old account about warming Vaseline and applying it to an aggressive barber's hone like you mention. Hopefully, the jojoba oil, a liquid vegetable wax, would work in a similar way.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Shaved again just now and wanted to report back. The edge had no problem laying 72 hrs. of beard growth low. Edge seemed relatively smooth and again there were no weepers, which is worth noting in this early onset of dry winter air here. However, this time, I noticed that the blade felt a little bit raw during the shave and there were a couple of red patches of skin irritation in applying the after-shave.

In all, I would call this a perfunctory shaving edge. One can certainly shave with it, but I wouldn't want to do so regularly; it needs something more. Paste would do it; maybe even a slicker lather as the one I used tonight was a little to light and airy. Sort of reminds me of other experiments I've made with using a lily-white washita as a stand-alone stone and a 1k/6k Suehiro combo. And before stropping it, I did a few dozen laps on a small coticule followed by another few dozen laps on a small Welsh purple slate.