Another Version Of The R41? Confused!

Discussion in 'Double Edged Razors' started by mjclark, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. You'll have to look carefully to spot this, but this seems like another version of the R41 with an even narrower cap than the 2011 version.

    Look hard and you can see that the baseplate and baseplate teeth are slightly narrower, and the cap is 18.0mm wide vs the 2011 which is 18.6mm.

    This narrower version on the left, 2011 R41 on the right:
    IMG_7056.JPG
    IMG_7055.JPG
    IMG_7057.JPG
    The length of the screw, the shape of the pins and the plating all look like the 18.0mm wide cap is a genuine Muhle cap, so is this another version of the R41?
     
  2. bberg100

    bberg100 Steward Contributor

    R-41 has been around in various versions for several years, I've seen some claimed to be from around '07(?) which were a true open comb.

    And of course there is the new R-41 Twist on the Muhle site.
     
  3. It's a zamak head, just like a V3, why don't they cost $6.95, like a V3? Same material, molded and chromed, costs the same to make.
     
  4. There are at least 4 R41s. I may have some dates a bit off because I'm going from memory.
    • up to 2009 - same head as the Fatip OC
    • 2010 - milder than the 209 or 2011/13 - an oddball year
    • 2011 - The BEAST
    • 2013 onwards - The Gentle BEAST (current version)
    Now, your 18.0mm cap looks like it came off the 2009 version because that's the exact width of my Fatip top cap. Maybe you have a 2010 model (which I have never even seen pictures of) or maybe a Franken-2009.
     
  5. Hmm... don't think it's a FaTip cap because the pins and inner curve are different:
    IMG_7062.JPG
     
  6. pbrmhl

    pbrmhl Contributor

    Marcus, do you have the 2013 version? If so, I'd like to see how it compares with the two in your photo...
     
  7. I only have 2013 baseplate (on the right in the photo below) -this razor has 2011 baseplate (on the left):
    IMG_7063.JPG

    And the pins are such a good fit in the baseplate holes that this really seems like the OEM cap but it's 18mm wide!
    image.jpg
     
  8. pbrmhl

    pbrmhl Contributor

    Interesting... So you've got a razor with a 2011 baseplate and a top cap that's narrower than the standard 2011 top cap? That must be a beastier beast!
     
  9. Yes it's like a Roedter R41 and I'm so confused as to how this has happened... and I must admit excited
     
  10. I thank you can put a R89 top cap on the base of the 13 R41 and it be just like the 11 R41?
     
  11. I was so excited when i bought my R41 last year. Until i shaved with it.

    Was just too aggressive for me, though my goodness it shaved close. After 10 days i went back to my comfort zone switching between an EJ DE89 and a Merkur 34c and am happy again. I have kept the razor and will give it another go sometime, but initial impressions were not happy. It's definitely a looker though.
     
  12. It's the other way round - the R89 cap is 19mm+ wide so when you put it on the 2011 baseplate it imitates the 2013 R41...
     
  13. And on to the shave...
    ...There's a lot of blade exposure with this narrower 18.0mm cap, some might say too much:
    IMG_7075.JPG
    And very surprised to find that the shave was well behaved, smooth and of course ultra-aggressive.
    Massive blade feel, very loud and a bit of blade flex but altogether a gorgeous shave and not particularly bitey.

    To be honest this didn't feel any closer or more aggressive than the standard 2011 with the 18.6mm cap but definitely a bit smoother.

    And talking to the guy I bought this from, this really does seem like the OEM cap, so can anybody explain why it's so much narrower?
    IMG_7073.JPG
     
  14. pbrmhl

    pbrmhl Contributor

    I just had a beer with a gent who seems expert in all things shaving. His two DEs (after getting rid of all the others) are a 2011 R41 and an Ikon Tech. Unprodded, he told me that quality control for the 2011 was uneven, including that top caps and base plates come in different sizes. Maybe you just got lucky, Marcus!
     
  15. I remember aimsport saying something similar a few years ago (he acquired multiple 2011s). Got the impression that his playing around with them, "wildsiding," etc, had at least some influence on the design of the Spitfire cap.

    And all of Muhle's and Fatip's most interesting mistakes do seem to make their way to Marcus!
     
  16. Thanks - this is starting to make sense now.

    The received wisdom that the width of the 2011 cap is 18.6mm is all based on one quote on another forum.

    The tolerances on the Muhle do seem ice cold and the blade alignment is perfect every time so I wonder why there should be variation in the cap width.
    Perhaps they were outsourced to different manufacturers.

    It's also surprising to me that the 18.0mm cap gives such a smooth and comfortable shave.
    Maybe for the width of DE blades an 18mm cap gives optimum smoothness since this is a quality for which the earlier FaTips are also renowned and they also have the 18.0mm cap.

    The Roedter cap drops down to 17.8mm and that really is very bitey and feels like trick shaving but does give a superb result too.

    Interesting about the Spitfire cap. I have one and this 18.0mm cap feels very similar and has the same shallower profile.
    The 18.6mm cap is noticeably more curved.

    It would be very interesting to hear from people who own 2011 R41s what the cap widths are on their particular razors...
     
  17. 18.6mm for my 2011 R41 and 20mm for my 2013 R41.
     
  18. 1Cal

    1Cal Contributor

    :001_rolle I suspect that the recent global cap widening (similar to kids playgrounds with soft and bouncy floors) is all part of the NWO dumbing down process to ensure that all future generations are unable to rely on themselves to do anything requiring skill, clear thinking, or intuition.
    :laugh: Just kidding (sort of).
     
  19. So this has turned out to be a "Mystery Of The Easily Explained" or if you're in U.K. a "Tale Of The Much As We Expected" -
    The guy I bought this R41 from found the correct 18.6mm cap on another razor of his and sent it to me!

    But I do wonder what razor that 18.0mm cap is for.
    It's not a FaTip cap and it fits the Muhle perfectly.
    Was there a boosted version of the R89?

    Anyway, this puzzle is solved and we had some fun along the way so thanks guys :001_smile
     

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