American Button Co Pocket Edition "Empire Edition"

[petredesign]

Hello Gents,

I had a 100 year old shave this morning and didn't know it. My father had given me my "Grandfather's" Gillette DE 15 years ago. I recently shaved my beard off and have been going with the clean cut look for the past few weeks. After struggling through a few mornings with a disposable and refusing to buy any more cartridges, I dug this out of my filing cabinet.

After some research I've discovered it is the ...
No. 504 (Empire Pattern) American Button Company Gold Plated Pocket Edition and that it did not belong to my grandfather, but to my great-grandfather!

Here are my 2 questions:

1. How much would you guess it is worth? (I have the matching case, holder, and Blade Box)

2. Is it worth trying to restore to "shiny" or should I just use it as I have been and let the lack of luster be? Would a restoration devalue, or preserve it?


p.s. This is one of the best shaves I've ever had.

 

[ouch]

Nice!

And welcome aboard!

 

[Hoos]

That's a very nice set. You could polish it up without affecting the value. Something mild and non-abrasive, like Maas Metal Polish.

The interior of the case is missing. They had a velvet (I think) lining with mild depressions for the different pieces - razor handle, head, and blade box.

As to value, since it was your grandfather's, you have a great connection to your family past with it. And that's more valuable than anything. Prices for them vary pretty greatly - no real reason. One of the more experienced folks might be able to help put a price on it.

 

[Haiku]

You're a lucky man to have inherited something like this. Use it in good health, and keep it to pass down to future generations in your family. The right answer to your question of what it's worth: it belonged to your great grandfather. This razor is priceless.

My view on the polish issue, for what it's worth:

Do not polish it. Don't don't don't. The gold plate on those razors was very very thin. You're almost certain to wear the plate right off if you try to get it to shine. And if you're not going to try to get it to shine, don't bother.

Real gold by the way does not shine very much in any event certainly not compared with other metals.

I've taken the gold plate and the nickel plate off of too many razors using even something as gentle as a jeweler's cloth with jeweler's rouge. Don't do it.

 

[ctakim]

Is that a gold version? Is it missing the velvet lining on the case interior? Those are the prettiest of the American Button Company Pocket Edition styles sold by Gillette. I've been looking for a set preferably in silver, but a good condition set sells for what I consider a premium. Most often the plating of the razor and case are flawed from wear. Very nice!!

 

[Oldguy]

This is a very sought after collector's piece. You can try to get it shiny but go very easy to preserve the gold plating. And please don't try and restore it by re-plating. That might be OK with the very common razors but to an Empire that's a sacrilege.

Len

 

[tom myers]

The razor was originally gold plated. If you feel that the gold plating is still intact, then I would advise against using any kind of metal polish on it. All metal polishes are abrasive and will quickly wear through the lacquer that was applied to protect the gold plating from wear. Once the lacquer layer is breached, that thin gold layer will wear off very easily. If the gold plating is intact, I would recommend cleaning only to remove any soap scum, but no polishing. An effective soap scum remover is Scrubbing Bubbles, which is a bathroom cleaner sold for the purpose of removing soap scum from tubs, basins etc. Spray it on all the parts, let them soak for just a few minutes . . . a light scrub with a soft toothbrush may be needed, and then rinse and dry. If the gold and the lacquer are still intact, the razor should look great.

If, on the other hand, you feel that the gold plating has already been worn off or a good bit of it has, then what you are looking at is the base metal that was under the plating . . . that is brass. Brass can look very nice and even rival gold in its color and luster, but to see it at its best, it does need to be polished from time to time with a good metal polish. On that ornate razor, you will probably need to use a soft toothbrush with the polish to get down into the design, especially on the handle.

From pictures, it is very difficult to tell if your razor still has its original plating and lacquer intact. If the finish looks somewhat uneven, the gold is likely partially worn off. If there are parts that are noticably tarnished with a brownish or even a greenish cast to them, that is definitely exposed brass oxidizing, since gold does not tarnish at all.

Too bad about that case lining, but otherwise you have a nice set. That Empire set is not very common. If you want to display it, you can always display the razor assembled and laying in front of, or on, the closed case.

Regards,
Tom

 

[drandall]

IMHO, the empire ABC edition is the most beautiful razor gillette ever made. you have yourself a beautiful example...regardless of tarnish!

 

[thirdeye]

IMHO, the empire ABC edition is the most beautiful razor gillette ever made. you have yourself a beautiful example...regardless of tarnish!

What he said.....

That is a stunning razor sir. Welcome to B&B...Enjoy the shave.

 

[wbw0126]

Enjoy your shaves with it my friend.

I got into this hobby after finding my own Great-Grandfather's pocket edition!

 

[Darjeeling Express]

Petredesign - Welcome to B&B. Your "entry" level razor comes in at the very high end. Congratulations. If you love the shave of an ABC - you are in for lots and lots of fun. Just feel free to jump into the threads and enjoy!

 

[petredesign]

The right answer to your question of what it's worth: it belonged to your great grandfather. This razor is priceless.
...
Do not polish it. Don't don't don't. And if you're not going to try to get it to shine, don't bother.

First. Thanks for all the input and the warm welcome!

I agree it is priceless. My father and I were just curious because we enjoy this sort of thing! I think he was more excited than I was to find out about the razor.

Regarding the restoration etc... I wouldn't even consider polishing it. I've seen what can happen to delicate metals before. I was thinking of taking it to my jeweler and having him ultrasound and steam it for me. On the other hand I still think it looks cool just the way it is.

Here's a futile suggestion: I hope this doesn't turn into a hobby. I already have too many already!

 

[AsylumGuido]

Beautiful razor and outer case. Too bad about the interior, but it can be nicely displayed as mentioned earlier with closed case and blade box and razor on the exterior. As for restoration, the gold plating appears to be intact from the pictures. I would simply lightly scrub with liquid soap and water.

Oh, and welcome to B&B!!

 

[Blondie]

since gold does not tarnish at all.

I hear this alot on the site, and while I do not have a ton of experience cleaning gold razors, the three I have done so far have been polished and I have not had a problem with them. I just make sure I use gentle polish that does not have an abrasive element to it. The chances of getting a razor that has the laquer intact are relatively slim. As far as gold razors not tarnishing, they do.

Now before we all get in a huff, let me clarify this statement; PURE gold, the element, does not tarnish. Alloyed gold, gold filling, and gold plating can all tarnish. These razors can tarnish easily since they are not pure gold. You could not make a razor of pure gold because it is too soft. If you don't believe me, try this, rub your wedding band on a jewelers cloth, and tell me you don't get a black streak on it. My fiance's diamond solitaire is platinum, and I still can get that black line on a cloth. Click here for a good explanation.

One other thing, never ever use bleach as a cleaner, as that can strip the gold plating right off. At the right concentration and temperature, it can actually dissolve an entire gold wedding band!!

 

[AsylumGuido]

I hear this alot on the site, and while I do not have a ton of experience cleaning gold razors, the three I have done so far have been polished and I have not had a problem with them. I just make sure I use gentle polish that does not have an abrasive element to it. The chances of getting a razor that has the laquer intact are relatively slim. As far as gold razors not tarnishing, they do.

Now before we all get in a huff, let me clarify this statement; PURE gold, the element, does not tarnish. Alloyed gold, gold filling, and gold plating can all tarnish. These razors can tarnish easily since they are not pure gold. You could not make a razor of pure gold because it is too soft. If you don't believe me, try this, rub your wedding band on a jewelers cloth, and tell me you don't get a black streak on it. My fiance's diamond solitaire is platinum, and I still can get that black line on a cloth. Click here for a good explanation.

One other thing, never ever use bleach as a cleaner, as that can strip the gold plating right off. At the right concentration and temperature, it can actually dissolve an entire gold wedding band!!

Exactly which gold razors have you polished? The older Gillettes were plated with 24 karat gold. That is why they would not tarnish. They required the lacquer finish to keep the plating intact. Once the lacquer wore away the ultra thin layer of gold was close behind. The vast majority of older Gillettes are without gold plating and simply consist of their highly polish-able brass core. Certain high end classics were triple plated and held up a little better.

 

[fidjit]

After some research I've discovered it is the ...
No. 504 (Empire Pattern) American Button Company Gold Plated Pocket Edition and that it did not belong to my grandfather, but to my great-grandfather!...................

1. How much would you guess it is worth? (I have the matching case, holder, and Blade Box)

p.s. This is one of the best shaves I've ever had.

Because of the two statements I've bolded above it's priceless.

Great family heirloom whatever condition it's in , restored or otherwise

 

[Blondie]

Exactly which gold razors have you polished? The older Gillettes were plated with 24 karat gold. That is why they would not tarnish. They required the lacquer finish to keep the plating intact. Once the lacquer wore away the ultra thin layer of gold was close behind. The vast majority of older Gillettes are without gold plating and simply consist of their highly polish-able brass core. Certain high end classics were triple plated and held up a little better.

Fat handled tech, New Standard, and bar handled tech. The last one clearly has some plating loss on the head cap, and end of the teeth. The underside is great though, and the handle looks good. The New Standard still has gold on it, I can tell. My only point about all of this is that if you have a razor that was shaved with, and is 80+ years old, the chance that the lacquer is already gone is fairly high. If the gold plating is still there, and you give it a hand polishing with a non-abrasive polish, you should be fine, just don't do it daily. Even if you polish it with just a soft cloth, you are going to eventually wear away gold. Even solid gold. That's where it differs from platinum.

I did some further research into plating, and wonder if Gillette used Electrical or Chemical plating methods. Also, the tarnish is caused by the base, or substrate metal atoms diffusing into the gold layer, in this case brass, so that explains why you get tarnish on the razors, even if the gold layer is still there. Had there been a nickel layer between the brass and the gold, the diffusion rate would be slowed considerably.

 

[Hoos]

I'm with pcullens on the polishing.

When I get a gold razor, at least one that needs cleaning, I'll clean it with hand soap, a soft toothbrush, and warm water. Then, if it needs it, a gentle polish with Maas. That's it. Barring any additional problems like rust. Which I haven't seen on any of the gold razors I've purchased.

After that, as part of regular cleaning/maintenance, I'll just wash it with soap and warm water.

To date, the one-time polishing has not affected the razor or removed any lacquer (as far as I can tell). The gold-plated razors do need to be treated gently, but as long as one isn't taking Bon Ami or Comet to them, a one-time polish with a non-abrasive polish seems to have no ill effect.

 

[AsylumGuido]

MAAS is not non-abrasive. The New Improved is completely brass below the gold plating. It is extremely common to find the New Improved razors in their native brass. In fact, my New Standard set has an all brass New Improved. See the picture below. Compare it to the Old Type on its right. I had to polish the New Improved since its plating was gone and it was tarnished. The Old Type, on the other hand, has never been polished at all and doesn't need it since it is 24 karat gold plated. Both were made about the same time during the 1920's.

 

[Hoos]

MAAS is not non-abrasive.

I'm not trying to be a jerk (though, sometimes I succeed admirably). I happen to have a box of Maas in front of me. Unfortunately, it lists no ingredients. Nor does the Maas website. But I did find this that the ingredients listed on their MSDS are: calcinated alumina, hydrocarbon mixture, and triethanolamine.

MSDS for Maas Creme Polish.

And I would consider calcinated alumina to be an abrasive.

More importantly (and I honestly never saw this on the box before):

Plated Metals: Not recommended for use on thinly plated surfaces.

Lacquered Metals: Lacquer must be removed prior to polishing

So, thank you to AsylumGuido. I'll forego polishing the gold ones in the future. Since most of the plated Gillettes used thin plating, it sounds best not to use anything stronger than elbow grease.

Thanks, AG. Sorry for the circuitous route around the rose bush.