Advice on improving my honing

[AndHeB]

http://www.imcclains.com/productinfo/documents/Grit%20Comparison%20Chart.pdf

 

[porkpiehat]

Ok,great. Thats the kind of info I was looking for. I suspect that you actually did a pretty good honing job.

[...]

I believe on a coarse stone the blade will even out and the long spots will be cut down to the short spots. If you do intentionally dull or grind the edge with out the spine touching, pay special attention to keeping the edge parallel with the spine. Its easy to skew them. Also remember that any material you remove from the edge without also removing some from the spine will more rapidly change bevel angle. Depending on your current angle, this may or may not be a significant factor. You may want to take some measurements and calculate your bevel angle before deciding. With the amount of material you need to remove (.5-1mm), when I say coarse, I mean coarse.

Thanks again for the elaborate answer MacGyver!

What I distill from it is that my best bet is to make the edge true again, with spine and edge in contact. I can use some fresh 400 grit w/d sandpaper on a stone or glass plate.

I'll first do the sharpie test once more on my 3000 or BBW as careful examination.
For making the edge true I'll also use sharpie to better evaluate the edge width (more contrast).

It's a nice project, and I get to know a lot about the blade thanks for the support!

What has probably happened is that someone has honed it on a narrow stone, honed it on a stone thats not flat, or hone it with two hands with too much finger pressure on those shorter areas. In all of those cases its possible to get a razor sharp, but it would be hard to maintain or hone on a stone thats actually flat.

That could have been me actually.. When I first "restored" the blade, I tried setting the bevel on an old no-name 1k stone. I don't recall exactly how, but I'm pretty sure I used tape to protect the spine and may or may not have lifted the spine, kitchen knife style, as I didn't know any better. I could maintain it on my (unlapped) BBW, until I became dissatisfied and ended up here for advice.

Off we go to properly restore it!
But first, happy holidays!

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G950F met Tapatalk

 

[The MacGyver]

Good luck! You can usually get a good hone on a blade that has a curved edge as long as its just an arc or "smile" by adjusting your stroke, so don't worry if the edge has a little curve at the heel and toe. But, when it goes up, down, up, down, its almost impossible to get all spots to touch. If you can get the center straight again before you run through the grits I think it will go smoothly from there! Remember that first bevel setting IS your edge. Get it as perfect as you can in the beginning, the rest (above your 1k) is just polishing and smoothing out scratch marks on the higher grits.

 

[porkpiehat]

Last week I had some time to try and tackle this once again. The Sharpie-test on the BBW showed that material is taken away all along the edge. Bit more at the toe though, and less at the heel. The differences were small though, I estimated around 0.1-0.3 mm.

To straighten the edge I put the 400 grit w/d sandpaper on the BBW and did some laps. After each few laps I'd check the edge width with the loupe. After about 40-50 laps the edge width was nicely even across the blade, yet still slightly wider at the tip. I estimate I had taken away over 0.5 mm by that time, and I decided to leave the toe as is. On the glass plate the edge also showed to be straight, not like before.
Interesting to see is that the abrasion in the spine is also much wider in the middle than at the heel and toe.

After the sandpaper I followed the progression of 1k bevel setting, and finishing on 3k, BBW and 12k with about 100 laps on each.

Nice little extra: abrasion on the spine is now shining like a mirror too! I'd wish the entire razor would shine like that! Too bad I don't sandpaper over 1200 grit to polish the blade.

Thanks for all the advice guys! It was a nice journey becoming more acquainted with this blade, and there is still a long road ahead.
The next day I already went to the antique shop for a new straight and found a nice one for a friend. This one is actually quite good; no rust, good edge, already shaves as is. Probably just needs a touch-up of the edge.

 

[The MacGyver]

Nice! Maintenance and most razors in decent shape will be a piece of cake compared to what you've done. I enjoy bringing them back especially if they are in OK shape but just need some love. I've restored or cleaned up hundreds but still can't resist a good deal on a neglected one. They can be had for almost nothing compared to one thats shave ready.

 

[Suhrim21]

How serious do you want to get about this?

At a minimum, you need a proper finisher. A 12k Naniwa would work nicely. Remember that this, like ALL STONES, must be lapped when you get it, and lapped periodically thereafter. A 12k Nanny is a quite adequate finisher for most shavers. It is possible to make it outperform itself, using the lather trick. I won't write a book about that until you actually have a Nanny12k in hand.

Another very good option for a beginner is 1u (one micron) lapping film on a 12" x 3" x 3/4" or 1" block of acrylic from TAP Plastics. No thinner than that. No smaller than that. Proper plain back lapping film in full size sheets, not lapping paper, polishing paper, polishing film, etc. You cut it into thirds longways and stick it to the acrylic with water. Tadah. You have about a 13k or 14k finishing hone that is absolutely flat and will always remain flat, with a disposable surface... the film, which is good for about a dozen razors. And you still have two more pieces of film from just that first sheet. So film is cheap, it is effective, and it is easy to learn with very few surprises.

You could also reach nearly that stage with a nice Jnat and a couple of good Nagura. This is not for the faint of heart. Jnats are a serious rabbit hole to fall into and best left until you master the basics of honing. I only mention them because they and a few other natural stones can work, with knowledge, experience, aptitude, and skill. There are also other synthetic options such as Shapton but of all the serious synthetic finishing stones, the Naniwa 12k is the best value for cost vs effectiveness. Lapping film is a good bit better though, IMHO. So there are your practical options for a finisher.

Now if you want to up your game some more, first of all if you have green CrOx paste smeared all over your balsa and it is not stabilized and it is less than 12" long and 3" wide, toss it if you want to get medieval on that edge. Remember the piece of acrylic I told you to get for the lapping film? Get three more just like it. Four more, actually. I will get back to the fourth one in a minute but the three are for making GOOD balsa strops. Acrylic because it is light enough to hold in hand and trust me, you want to do this in hand, not resting on a bench or table. I will tell you right now, if you want to get into this specialized treatment that we call The Method, you must do as I say, not as you feel, if you want best possible results. If you don't care about best possible results, then stop with the 12k or the film and don't waste your time or money chasing the dragon. You can catch that dragon right away, with no long learning period, but only if you do this thing right. If you want to ask "but can I use THIS instead? How about if I do it THAT way?" then you are doomed. At least as far as achieving a method edge goes.

Let's be perfectly clear about one thing. A LOT of tools and techniques work. It is simply a matter of degree. Your coticule works. Generations of shavers shaved right off of coticules. A barber hone works. A well lapped brick works. But how well do you want it to work? There is a huge spectrum of methods and tools and results that "work". If you want to use THE Method, then I will say this now... you can't, this early in your honing journey, expect anything at all to work better than precisely and without failure or hesitation or substitution or omission or freestyling, following The Method, if you want a Method edge. There is no point in asking if this or that will work in conjunction with The Method. It probably WILL work. It probably will NOT work as part of The Method to give you a full bore Method Edge.

Now there are converging paths leading up to the end stages but those paths should find a waypoint of either 12k or better synthetic stone edge, or a 1u film edge. From there, the paths merge into one. From there, the next waypoint is the lapped balsa strop, backed with a non warping substrate light enough and thick enough to use in hand, treated with .5u diamond paste with ZERO excess. Everyone puts too much. If it looks like enough, you have 10x or more too much. The idea is to embed the abrasive particles up to their necks in the grain of the very flat and smooth balsa so they cut much more shallow than they have any right to cut by virtue of their grit rating. This stropping on the balsa is usually done in the vertical, end-up position so that the weight of the razor does not bear on the balsa. This reduces scratch depth even more. Each stage of the honing pipeline is tasked with the complete eradication of the coarser scratches left by the previous stage, replacing them entirely with its own finer scratches. The finer you end up, assuming you have a good bevel, the sharper the edge. After the .5u comes the .25u, with a good cleaning in between stages always, so as not to contaminate the finer grit with even one particle from the coarser grit. The .5u and .25u can create what most shavers regard as a harsh shave. But the next and final stage, the .1u stage, makes it all come together with ultimate sharpness and comfort, if you modify your shave technique slightly.

So there you have it. It is a matter of degree. How sharp do you want it? Your razor, your face. If you are interested in The Method, see this thread. Read it beginning to end. All the threads linked within that thread, read from beginning to end, also. That's a lot of reading. But all your questions are answered in there. Many newbies' case histories are in there. And The Method has evolved a bit over the years as new things are tried and found to improve the experience. So you can't just read the first 100 posts and call it good.

Oh I almost forgot... now you must remember that setting a bevel is something you only need to do once while you own a razor. Buying a stone for bevel setting, and buying more coarser stones for edge repair prior to the bevel setting stage, is an expense that for many shavers does not really have a good payoff. It is cheaper, if you only have a few razors, to take that fourth (well, fifth) block of acrylic and use it as your bevel setter and edge repair hone. Fold and tear a whole sheet of wet/dry sandpaper into thirds lengthwise. LIGHTLY spray a little 3M or Loctite spray adhesive on the back. Carefully stick it to the acrylic, ensuring it goes on tight and flat with zero lint, dust, hair, bubbles, etc under it. Now you have a hone, perfectly flat, (flat enough for us, anyway) with a disposable surface layer of whatever grit you need. Want 120 grit to do the heavy lifting on a Gold Dollar or a vintage with a huge chip in the edge? No problem. Want 2k for setting the bevel on a beautiful singing extra full hollow? You got it. Of course, those coarse stones can also be used for sharpening your pocketknives, kitchen knives, and other edged tools, but me, I prefer to use sandpaper.

Oh, I see you already have a 1k stone. If it is flat enough and of decent quality, by all means, use it if you want. And the 3k will save a lot of wear on your coti.

Check your strop for cupping. And even if it is wide enough to carry the whole blade, you should use a bit of an x stroke. You might not be getting your razor properly stropped. That would explain slowly losing your edge even while continuing to use the same tools.

So looks like I have some light reading to do. Thank you for the well explained reply. I've been looking to get better edges on my blades and will work on doing this. Thank you.