Advice Needed for a Beginner Honer

[Ijaz]

Hey guys,

I have been straight shaving on and off for a few months. I have an entry level razor with a SRD latigo strop.

I generally strop on both the linen and then the leather side before each shave.

Now I think it is time to introduce a hone into all this. Here is what I have gathered from everything I have read, let me know if anything I have here is wrong:

1. To keep the edge sharp, only a fine grit hone is needed (10, 000 or 12, 000)
2. The hone will first need to be lapped before initial use (either using sandpaper or a lapping plate)
3. Use the X pattern to hone leading with razor edge with little to no pressure aside from keeping razor flat and in contact with the hone
4. Do a test to see if it is shave ready, then shave and test
5. Repeat process if needed
6. A strop paste may also be used on the linen side to add the finishing touch

Here is my shopping list so far, please provide some feedback.

1. Naniwa 12, 000 grit or Shapton 10, 000
2. Not sure of what to use to lap for one of the fine grit hones above
3. 1 micron diamond paste for the linen side on strop


Thanks for the feedback in advance!

 

[jeness]

If you have been shaving with one razor for months, than a 10-12k hone won't get the edge back. Paste your linen side with either 0,5 micron diamond, or with crox, 1 micron diamond isn't the best for a shaving edge. For a beginner, the 12k Naniwa is better than the shaptons, it is much easier to use imo.

Everything else is as you wrote, I suggest you send your razor to someone for a full honing, and than maintain that edge with your new finishing stone.

 

[fccexpert]

I have actually found that my Norton 4/8K is all I need for maintenance honing. I do have finer grit stones, but I don't use them, same goes for my pasted strops. I generally hone after 30 shaves. Everything else looks about right. As far as testing goes, I hone until I get a good thumb pad test strop and shave. Your ability to determine when you are done will come with time and practice.

 

[Slash McCoy]

The Naniwa is a great finish stone. If you use it as a maintenance stone it will work nicely. If you let a razor get too dull, it will take a LOT of laps, though, and you might want an 8k Norton as well. May as well get the 4k/8k combo, actually.

If you hone on a Norton 8k normally, and then add lather and hone for about three times as many laps and with extremely light pressure, you can achieve a much nicer edge than you get using the 8k in the conventional manner. The lather helps the razor to stand off from the hone a bit, so the scratches are not as deep. Essentially you will be getting a 10k or 12k edge from your 8k stone.

However, lapping film is much easier to get good results from, early on. With a bit of practice and getting your technique dialed in, you can get truly excellent results. Film is cheap, though it does wear out. You would also need a lapping plate, which can be a polished marble floor tile or a sink cutout from a polished granite countertop, or a piece of heavy glass like from a glass coffee table top, glued to wood. It can be of very large size. Lapping film can be had in 8-1/2" x 11" sheets, or 9" x 13" sheets. The film doesn't need to be wider than the length of the razor's blade, so you can cut a sheet into three pieces or even 4, and still have a bigger honing surface than any commonly available stone. A stone must be lapped periodically, and usually before the first use (Naniwas are pretty flat when you get them) but with film, your plate never needs lapping. No soaking needed. A complete kit fits almost anywhere and weighs whatever your plate weighs, plus an ounce or less for your film assortment. What's not to like? For maintaining your edge, 3u and 1u film are all you need.

1u paste is about the same grit as your 12k Naniwa. And I would not use it on linen. I would use it on balsa. Get a piece 1" x 3" x 12" and paste one side with 1u and the other with .5u or .25u. Label them clearly. You must avoid cross contamination. The linen I would paste with CrOx. You don't want an aggressive cutter on a hanging strop.

The pasted balsa will help you go a LOOOOONG time between honing. If you get your technique dialed in and never damage your edge, you can go almost indefinitely without honing. I just went three months without honing a rotation of two Gold Dollars and a Case's Ace, and I don't know how long two of the razors went without honing before that. One of the Gold Dollars I modded just previously and so it was honed three months ago. The other two, could be a year, but with intermittent use. Still, normally a three razor rotation is ready for honing after three months. The pasted balsa, properly used, keeps an edge quite well. I seldom use a pasted hanging strop these days. I used to use CrOx on linen or leather to tone down a harsh edge from .3u film or a very fine stone, but I have learned to get very sharp but quite mellow edges from film that do not need toning down with a hanging strop. The balsa is my primary edge maintenance tool.

The pasted balsa has considerable cutting power but is NOT a hone and should not be expected to create a sharp edge, only to maintain it with a dozen or so laps after every shave.

 

[YetiDave]

There is always the option of a coticule which will do everything from bevel setting to finishing an edge

 

[SinnerinRehab]

I hate following Slash. He knows too much and is too wise. I'm still stuck on the adding lather to a Norton 4/8 which is what I have. I might try film in the future. There is a lot of great talk on them.

Slash, how much lather do you use? Just a bit? A dollop like on a sundae? I'm very much going to try that.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I hate following Slash. He knows too much and is too wise. I'm still stuck on the adding lather to a Norton 4/8 which is what I have. I might try film in the future. There is a lot of great talk on them.

Slash, how much lather do you use? Just a bit? A dollop like on a sundae? I'm very much going to try that.

Just keep the stone slick. It is the film that does the trick, not the fluffy meringue. Just apply generously every 20 or 30 laps to refresh it.

With the blade semi-shielded from the stone, it takes a LOT of laps to make a difference. But when you get there, wow. Big difference. You are actually removing so little steel that you may as well figure on 200 laps, minimum and even 1000 is not going to hurt anything.

BTW this is nothing new... this is an old trick that was commonly used on barber hones. Recently I even tried lathering film. Sublime. Absolutely sublime. The .3u film, which usually leaves an edge that is a bit harsh and grabby, was like teflon. Amazing sharpness, too.

As for trying film, what's stopping you? Get some 1u film and a marble floor tile and have at it. Let it be your post-8k finisher. 40 or 50 laps and then add damp paper between film and plate, and hone for another 30 very light laps. You won't be able to tell the difference between an edge merely finished on film from a totally film-honed edge.

 

[Ijaz]

Thanks for all the feedback!

I haven't shaved too much with the straight razor, so I don't believe it is worn out. It still shaves good. Just not as exceptional as it used to.

Since people are mentioning just 1 stone wouldn't cut it, I was thinking about getting this kit:

http://www.straightrazordesigns.com...naniwa-value-pack-5000-8000-12000-grit-stones

Along with this lapping plate:

http://www.straightrazordesigns.com/the-sharpening-center/naniwa-lapping-plate-220-grit (Would the lapping plate be too rough for the 12K hone?)

I know it's not the Norton 4K/8K, but would the 5K Naniwa in place of the 4K Norton be that much different?

Also, what would you guys use to lap the hones (especially the 12K hone)?

Slash, great info, but since I am just starting out I am a little hesitant on messing with films and what not. Couple of questions though in regards to your post. When you say pasted balsa, are you talking about just a piece of balsa wood or a paddle strop?

As far as CrOx is concerned, I read on one of the retail websites that you should "load" the linen side to fill all the pores and wipe off the excess until very little comes off with each wipe. Is that the method you guys use?

 

[Slash McCoy]

Why hesitant? Films are easier. I would hesitate to go with rocks. They are harder to learn and cost more.

The pasted balsa is just that... a piece of balsa wood, pasted with an abrasive like diamond paste or Chromium Oxide. You just dab some on, or smear it across the balsa, and rub it into the entire top surface. It doesn't take much. Then you strop on it. You can call it a bench strop if you want. If you put a handle on it you can call it a paddle strop if you want. Semantics, Shemantics.

As for loading the CrOx, it isn't critical. If there is too much, you make a big green mess all over the place. If there is none at all, there isn't enough. Just rub some on and strop.

I haven't priced naniwas lately but I imagine it will be a bit more expensive than the Norton 4k. Also the nani 5k is considerably finer than the Norton 4k, about halfway to 8k, actually. The Japanese scale is a little different from our ANSI scale.

As for the 220 grit lapping plate roughing up the 12k hone, don't worry overmuch abbout that. It will smooth back out with use. But I prefer wet/dry paper for its greater area. You can work the stone being lapped from corner to corner and never have any part of the stone leave the abrasive surface. This will give you better consistency and flatness. Plus you can, if it is an issue, go through a progression of papers and finish at 2000 grit, a considerable improvement over 220. Best way to use paper is to get some LocTite spray adhesive and spray it on the back of the paper, then stick it on a glass coffee table or similar. Don't worry... it will peel right off, and residue is easily cleaned up with nail polish remover or acetone.

 

[SinnerinRehab]

Thanks for the information. Will give it a go.

 

[blademen]

+ 1 on the Coti.

 

[Doc226]

There is always the option of a coticule which will do everything from bevel setting to finishing an edge

Yep

+ 1 on the Coti.

Yep, if you really want a superb coti edge, finish with oil-wow

 

[Brandon P K]

Why hesitant? Films are easier. I would hesitate to go with rocks. They are harder to learn and cost more.

+1

Funny how folks can be resistant to such a simple & nearly fool-proof (and quite cheap) method of obtaining consistently great shaving edges.

 

[hig789]

It's not that people are resistant to films, it's just some people enjoy honing on natural stones. Honing on film just seems so sterile, I'm sure the edges for he film are very consistent, but I love coaxing the maximum edge out of my rocks. That half the fun of it.

 

[UPD]

+1, nothing compares to the feel of steel on stone.

 

[Krodor]

yup. If I want to hone something for someone else, I'll use films, if they don't have a preference...easy and I know it will work really well. If I want to hone something for me, I'll use rocks, as there is always something to learn and challenge yourself with, esp. with naturals instead of synthetic rocks.

 

[Doc226]

Thanks for all the feedback!

I haven't shaved too much with the straight razor, so I don't believe it is worn out. It still shaves good. Just not as exceptional as it used to.

Since people are mentioning just 1 stone wouldn't cut it, I was thinking about getting this kit:

http://www.straightrazordesigns.com...naniwa-value-pack-5000-8000-12000-grit-stones

Along with this lapping plate:

http://www.straightrazordesigns.com/the-sharpening-center/naniwa-lapping-plate-220-grit (Would the lapping plate be too rough for the 12K hone?)

I know it's not the Norton 4K/8K, but would the 5K Naniwa in place of the 4K Norton be that much different?

Also, what would you guys use to lap the hones (especially the 12K hone)?

Slash, great info, but since I am just starting out I am a little hesitant on messing with films and what not. Couple of questions though in regards to your post. When you say pasted balsa, are you talking about just a piece of balsa wood or a paddle strop?

As far as CrOx is concerned, I read on one of the retail websites that you should "load" the linen side to fill all the pores and wipe off the excess until very little comes off with each wipe. Is that the method you guys use?

Personally I don't like the edge off the naniwa, I sometimes use them, but I usually will given it some coti laps with oil just to bring down the harshness.

Not sure about the naniwa lapping plate, but a DMT 325 is the standard