Is this witch hazel plant extract included in alcohol aftershave or is it something sold completely on its own without alcohol in it?
A message to the new guys: If your AS burns like heck you're doing it wrong
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Is this witch hazel plant extract included in alcohol aftershave or is it something sold completely on its own without alcohol in it?
I am no scientist and all I know is that an aftershave is supposed to act as antispecict to kill bacteria and has ingredients to soothe or repair damaged/irritated skin.
I normally apply aftershave splash 2-4 times (with interval of 5 mins in between) after I shave (and I shave everyday). the last application has almost no burn/sting so I know the aftershave has saved me from infections and other bad things and that its time to apply a balm or a moisturizer.
This method (combined with alum) has served me well for years and I very rarely suffer from ingrowns, razor burn, acnes and whatnot. Mind you that I have sensitive skin (and thick hair) and I note when I don't apply enough alcoholic aftershaves, my facial skin breaks put: my 2 cents.
I normally apply aftershave splash 2-4 times (with interval of 5 mins in between) after I shave (and I shave everyday). the last application has almost no burn/sting so I know the aftershave has saved me from infections and other bad things and that its time to apply a balm or a moisturizer.
This method (combined with alum) has served me well for years and I very rarely suffer from ingrowns, razor burn, acnes and whatnot. Mind you that I have sensitive skin (and thick hair) and I note when I don't apply enough alcoholic aftershaves, my facial skin breaks put: my 2 cents.
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I am not an expert either, just a bookworm that kills boredom by reading stuff.
But, out of curiosity, did you have a dermatologist tell you that you have sensitive skin type or is it something that you have suspected yourself because of how your skin reacts?Because, from all i know, people with sensitive skin, the last thing they want is alcohol and alcohol is the plague for every skin disease.
Taken from article "8 Beauty Products Dermatologists never use on their skin" (can't link it because of the "wonderful" Tos:
There's a reason it's good to read the ingredient label: If Gervaise Gerstner, MD, a dermatologist in New York City, sees alcohol listed in the first few ingredients, she avoids those products as they can be drying and irritating and can exacerbate rosacea, acne, and eczema.
Cutaneous adverse effects of alcohol
Author: Dr Susan Simpkin, Dermatology Registrar, Auckland, New Zealand, 2011.
Which i believe i can link directly, since it's not a blog:
Cutaneous adverse effects of alcohol | DermNet New Zealand
This is when drinking alcohol, but the bottom line is, even if you drink it, it passes from the skin too.
And a final caution: Just because someone may have a chronic skin disease, this doesn't mean he has sensitive type skin. It means he has a specific skin disease. The skin disease usually lets alcohol to enter the skin quicker and burn more, but doesn't mean that he has sensitive type necessarily. One may have combination, dry, oily skin and still have skin diseases that may cure or may not in time, according to the disease. The skin type remains the same for life.
Anyway, i thing i overdone it for an internet forum, there is a good reason why a doctor visits one person at a time and makes a clinical record individually instead of yelling at 50 people and have them "disagree". The best thing i can advice anyone who loves his face, is, next time you visit a dermatologist, ask him.
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a lot of the aftershaves I use have it included, but you can also buy it plain with or without alcohol in it, it seems like it naturally has some grain alcohol in it when extracted. I have used both types of the plain witch hazel and obviously the one with grain alcohol has a sting as well as burn to it, the one without only has a bit of burn.
Well, this is cosmetic industry combined with herbalism, so my notions are limited. In wikipedia the extract doesn't appear to have alcohol. But, it may be something used to solve the plant, something to preserve it or the fragrance. For instance, i found an ingredient list from a product, called " Thayers alcohol-free rose petal witch hazer toner". And the list is:
Purified Water, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice (Certified Organic Filet Of Aloe Vera), Glycerin (Vegetable), Fragrance (Natural Rose), Hamamelis Virginiana Extract (made from Certified Organic Witch Hazel), Rosa Centifolia (Rose) Flower Water, Citric Acid, Citrus Grandis (Grapefruit) Seed Extract
The fragrance itself may be an issue to some people. But even more suspect, is the citric acid. It's a mild acid used as preservative. It's basically in lemon juice. If you rub lemon to an open wound it will sting because of the citric acid. It's mild, but it is still an acid. It might be able to cause some sting effect after a shave. Or, it may be a slight intolerance to Aloe or witch hazel itself. Allergy to aloe for instance, exists for sure. But may not be imporant.
The main constituents of the witch hazel extract include calcium oxalate, gallotannins, safrole, as well as chemicals found in the essential oil (carvacrol, eugenol).
^ Could be something in one of those too. I don't know... What i surely know is that chamomile doesn't sting and is very good for the skin (except for those with allergy to it) and the mucosae of the organism. And Hamamelis Virginia (witch hazel) does sound awfully similar to "chamomile"... Which is also a common home remedy in Europe (even for babies) and not just home remedy, you can find it in a variety of skin care and soothing products. The "Hamamelis Virginia" doesn't seem to grow in Europe, hence why i 've never heard it. But i suspect it might be something like a cousin of the chamomile.
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I am not an expert either, just a bookworm that kills boredom by reading stuff.
Because, from all i know, people with sensitive skin, the last thing they want is alcohol and alcohol is the plague for every skin disease.
Taken from article "8 Beauty Products Dermatologists never use on their skin" (can't link it because of the "wonderful" Tos:
There's a reason it's good to read the ingredient label: If Gervaise Gerstner, MD, a dermatologist in New York City, sees alcohol listed in the first few ingredients, she avoids those products as they can be drying and irritating and can exacerbate rosacea, acne, and eczema.
Cutaneous adverse effects of alcohol
Author: Dr Susan Simpkin, Dermatology Registrar, Auckland, New Zealand, 2011.
Which i believe i can link directly, since it's not a blog:
Cutaneous adverse effects of alcohol | DermNet New Zealand
This is when drinking alcohol, but the bottom line is, even if you drink it, it passes from the skin too.
And a final caution: Just because someone may have a chronic skin disease, this doesn't mean he has sensitive type skin. It means he has a specific skin disease. The skin disease usually lets alcohol to enter the skin quicker and burn more, but doesn't mean that he has sensitive type necessarily. One may have combination, dry, oily skin and still have skin diseases that may cure or may not in time, according to the disease. The skin type remains the same for life.
Anyway, i thing i overdone it for an internet forum, there is a good reason why a doctor visits one person at a time and makes a clinical record individually instead of yelling at 50 people and have them "disagree". The best thing i can advice anyone who loves his face, is, next time you visit a dermatologist, ask him.
No my wife told me that
On serious note thiugh, when I was a child, my skin reacted to certain bath soaps and a dermatologist did say that I have sensitive skin, etc prescribing medical soaps and all. Today I still [but just sometimes] get skin rashes after I shower (like twice a week). I have learnt to live with that. My face though, is soft and clean, free of pimples. I think its because of my routine that I mentioned in another thread few weeks ago:
Before I go to bed:
- Wash
- Toner
- A razor bump solution (I use Bump X or Kiehl's Razor Bump Relief...here I am looking at applying Acetylsalicylic Acid to my face)
- Serum
- Moisturizer
- Eye cream
Before morning shave:
- Shower
- Gentle Scrub
- Pre shave cream
After I Shave:
- Alum
- Alcohol-free Witch Hazel
- Alcoholic aftershave
- Balm
I think it is this routine that has caused me having [hopefully] healthy face...but more importantly, I simply enjoy it and as long as I see good results, I happily spend 45 mins of my day spending on my shaving/facial routine.
They do have fairly similar properties, but I don't think they're related much, the "flowers" that bud from the hamemilis look very different, it's really a stretch to call them flowers, it's also a fairly large tree. I really don't mind the slight burn I get when i use witch hazel products, it honestly helps my skin a lot, i've went a couple weeks without using any at all, then gone back to it and it was very noticeable how much it helps, just in general not only after shaving.
No my wife told me that
On serious note thiugh, when I was a child, my skin reacted to certain bath soaps and a dermatologist did say that I have sensitive skin, etc prescribing medical soaps and all. Today I still [but just sometimes] get skin rashes after I shower (like twice a week). I have learnt to live with that. My face though, is soft and clean, free of pimples. I think its because of my routine that I mentioned in another thread few weeks ago:
Before I go to bed:
- Wash
- Toner
- A razor bump solution (I use Bump X or Kiehl's Razor Bump Relief...here I am looking at applying Acetylsalicylic Acid to my face)
- Serum
- Moisturizer
- Eye cream
Before morning shave:
- Shower
- Gentle Scrub
- Pre shave cream
After I Shave:
- Alum
- Alcohol-free Witch Hazel
- Alcoholic aftershave
- Balm
I think it is this routine that has caused me having [hopefully] healthy face...but more importantly, I simply enjoy it and as long as I see good results, I happily spend 45 mins of my day spending on my shaving/facial routine.
If it works for you, then it works. But, for instance, what one believes that is thanks to alcohol, isn't necessarily so. For instance ingrown hairs have no connection with alcohol. Or, skin infections, to an individual with competent immune system, aren't as easy to occur from shaving as most people think. Like i mentioned earlier, 25% of population has on its skin living daily and happily, Staphylococcus Aureus, one of the most antibiotic resistant bacteria and one of the first killers in hospitalized patients. Yet they don't get sick.
Or, in your case, i think you are a little bit "cheating" alcohol. In the sense, that alum is a sdeeperort of a sealant. Followed by non alcohol Witch hazel, means that Witch hazel is the first to rush into the inner skin. When finally you apply aftershave, the rate of penetration is reduced, because of the previous things you applied. When you apply something against your skin, it will move due to diffusion (osmosis). The witch hazel, dissolved into water will move deeper because the inner skin is more concentrated (movement between 2 solutions are always from the less concentrated towards the more concentrated. The less concentrated always tries to dilute the more concentrated). When you finally apply aftershave, the skin has already had increased sealing from the alum and increased dilution from the witch hazel (inner skin more hydrated), so alcohol will move less rapidly and towards a more moisturized skin, which means it will find itself more diluted when it hits the inner skin and as such, will also burn probably less.
It's a similar concept to why different aftershave brands, burn to different degree. For instance, i have read several Proraso Green lotion reviews that say that it doesn't burn much. Because it probably has lower alcohol concentration. Legislation has made a big gift into cosmetic industry where companies have no obligation to write how much alcohol they have in their product.
I do something similar, when i cold wash my face and without patting it dry, i apply the aftershave. The alcohol is kept for longer on the surface (delay) and in practice gets dilute. The more you delay and dilute the alcohol, the less it will burn, because it's volatile, so it will evaporate before going too deeply.
The opposite is the problem of many people with balms. The balms being thicker, more concentrated products with oily texture, have more problem to penetrate quickly in the inner skin, because the gradient of concentration is smaller (you have a pretty much concentrating product needing to go to dilute another concentrated area, the inner skin. So the gradient is small, the absorbtion rate is slow). This is why at the end some people complain that they are left with "oily skin" or with "shiny skin" from balms. Because the diffusion after a point and hence the absorbtion, doesn't happen, because the inner skin is already "full" and further product takes ages to migrate.
You might have sensitive skin type, but pimples are characteristic of oily skin type. Which is why dermatologists do 99% visual diagnosis.
I don't know. I just think that botanists may have named it similar to chamomile either because they have some relationship or because of similar properties... Chamomile for the record also helps in general. They even put it in hand creams, body lotions, baby lotions, baby creams against "diaper dermatitis", they boil it and give it to babies with intenstine inflammation to calm down pain and also to help babies sleep and i don't know what else.
I too have found a way to use alcohol aftershave without burn, but i also "cheat". Since, the preshave cream i use, is a high glycerin hand cream (against dry hands). This moisturizes the skin and adds oil. During the shave, new moisture goes in so the skin becomes "full". After the shave, i thorougly wet my face with water and on the water, i then apply the aftershave. The result is that the alcohol hits the water on the surface of the skin and it gets further diluted. The glycerin and allantoin in the aftershave, have more time to take up some more water from the surface and try to keep it in. All this, plus the skin being already "filled" with more water and oil from the preshave cream, delays the penetration of a diluted alcohol to the inner skin. The result is i don't feel burn. But if i apply the aftershave on non wet face, i feel the burn. The key with alcohol is this: The more you delay the penetration of alcohol, the less alcohol you will have in your inner skin. Because alcohol is highly volatile and can't wait on your skin for much before it evaporates.
P.S: Using oily preshave creams may lead to pimples to some people with predisposition. It's the main difference between hand creams and face creams. Hand creams are formulated for thicker skin. This on a face skin (that is thinner), on some people can lead to pimples, because it's "too much" (not all gets absorbed and instead clogs a pore and a pimple appears).
P.S: Using oily preshave creams may lead to pimples to some people with predisposition. It's the main difference between hand creams and face creams. Hand creams are formulated for thicker skin. This on a face skin (that is thinner), on some people can lead to pimples, because it's "too much" (not all gets absorbed and instead clogs a pore and a pimple appears).
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And a last thing about pain, nerve system and repeated stimulation. The nervous system, was built with the purpose of being "the alarm" of the organism and to give "contact awareness with the enviroment". It's why the outer skin has no nerves, because it is expected that the outer skin will suffer some daily hardship and screaming about it wouldn't help, the outer skin fully replaces all of its 5 layers, in 28 days (yes, the same as female menstruation, as they are both epithelial tissues). The organism has nerves where it makes sense to warn about "real damage" towards a stimulous that "shouldn't be there". When you insist though with the same stimoulous chronically, the nervous system tries to adapt, because 1) nerve transmission is done through molecules that the nerve must synthesize and and the initial reserves at some points are depleted, 2) unless it's very important, the brain tries to suppress the intensity, because it makes little sense to have an alarm constanty on, that annoys you more than what caused the alarm itself.
This is known as "receptor desensitazion" and it is used inadvertently by everyone and it used also in medicine, in pain treatment for example. The most mundane example is when you enter a room with a smell. Some time later, you no longer notice the smell. This is because the receptor has been desensitized and the brain no longer wants to bother with informing you about it and spending precious reserves of neurotransmitters for something you already know. The more you get the same stimulous, the more you will adapt. Think again the vodka drinker. Or a smoker who on himself, smells nothing, but a non smoker can smell a stinky cloud surrounding him from 2 meters away. Or someone who works for years with loud equipment, becomes a bit "hard to hear", because the brain initially tries to warn you that "this sound is too high". But since you insist, the ear with time tries to adjust to your insistence and survive in the new enviroment. A way to survive is to reduce your hearing, so that a louder noise won't be as annoying anymore.
Something similar, happens to alcohol or in my newbie case, with menthol. I haven't used menthol in probably 15 years. As soon as i applied Proraso White, i stopped and read the ingredients because i felt uncomfortable numbing and cold. I no longer get that, now that i use it constantly. Much like the vodka drinker, i probably now need "Proraso Green" to wow me. Because menthol doesn't really lower the temperature, it numbs the nerves. But do that repeatedly and the nerve won't be as easy to numb as before. At the same way, despite being in my 30s, i don't drink anything higher than beer or wine. Mostly beer. Give me even a cognac and i will burn my throat. Give me whiskey and i will run to drink water to make it go away.
Foodies or cooks might have observed something similar with hot, spicy food. At first, it burns a lot. Eat it for some months and you start adding more than before to "really feel it". These things apply to shaving too.
The nerve system, always warns, but after repeated warnings, it acts much like an annoyed woman and says "Fine, i am tired of trying, do as you like".
This is known as "receptor desensitazion" and it is used inadvertently by everyone and it used also in medicine, in pain treatment for example. The most mundane example is when you enter a room with a smell. Some time later, you no longer notice the smell. This is because the receptor has been desensitized and the brain no longer wants to bother with informing you about it and spending precious reserves of neurotransmitters for something you already know. The more you get the same stimulous, the more you will adapt. Think again the vodka drinker. Or a smoker who on himself, smells nothing, but a non smoker can smell a stinky cloud surrounding him from 2 meters away. Or someone who works for years with loud equipment, becomes a bit "hard to hear", because the brain initially tries to warn you that "this sound is too high". But since you insist, the ear with time tries to adjust to your insistence and survive in the new enviroment. A way to survive is to reduce your hearing, so that a louder noise won't be as annoying anymore.
Something similar, happens to alcohol or in my newbie case, with menthol. I haven't used menthol in probably 15 years. As soon as i applied Proraso White, i stopped and read the ingredients because i felt uncomfortable numbing and cold. I no longer get that, now that i use it constantly. Much like the vodka drinker, i probably now need "Proraso Green" to wow me. Because menthol doesn't really lower the temperature, it numbs the nerves. But do that repeatedly and the nerve won't be as easy to numb as before. At the same way, despite being in my 30s, i don't drink anything higher than beer or wine. Mostly beer. Give me even a cognac and i will burn my throat. Give me whiskey and i will run to drink water to make it go away.
Foodies or cooks might have observed something similar with hot, spicy food. At first, it burns a lot. Eat it for some months and you start adding more than before to "really feel it". These things apply to shaving too.
The nerve system, always warns, but after repeated warnings, it acts much like an annoyed woman and says "Fine, i am tired of trying, do as you like".
Well there is wealth of knowledge shared here on my favorite subject of aftershaves.
Now I have to spend time reread everything!
Now I have to spend time reread everything!
It's an internet forum, take it for what you will, better ask a dermatologist than a John Doe in a forum at the end of the day. I just have my own theories and i really dislike some "customary" practices that are more driven by fashion and a multibillion dollar business than actual fact on why the inner skin takes benefit from alcohol rushing in.
Interesting discussion. In the end, for me it all boils down to the shave. If it works for you, and you enjoy shaving, then IMHO you are doing it right. 
I tend to bounce around between splashes, balms, and other AS types, but the key thing I've found with splashes is to dilute them. Some drops of water with the AS splash goes a long way to improving the post shave skin feel.
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Wow I'm glad there is so much going on in this thread.
This is a great point, basically I just want new members to know that shaving dosent have to hurt... but of course everyone's skin is different. I just noticed that in the beginning of traditional wet shaving for me I was still applying a tremendous amount of pressure to my razor thinking this was going to be more efficient. WRONG! I would then go for my aftershave and cringe at the thought of having to put this on knowing it was going to be extremely painful. My uncle was the one who got me into traditional wet shaving last year and one thing he left out when telling me all about this way of shaving was not to apply to much pressure to your razor. I was so use to using my sensor and you push on those razors until the cows come home and they won't cut you. DEs on the other hand are the total opposite. I told my uncle I was having trouble and he quickly corrected me and pointed me in the right direction. Which is what I hoped this thread would do for the new guys and hopefully will continue doing. This was a really good read so far, I really enjoyed hearing everyone's input. Basically there's a right way to shave and a wrong way to shave with DE SE and SR razors, there's really no in between. I just got finished shaving this morning and I get almost zero burn these days from any AS i use. It's only when my technique is sloppy that I feel a burn from my AS, in the beginning though that's a different story. Like I said I would cringe at the thought of having to use AS and my face would feel raw and itchy for a day after a shave like that. I'm so glad I never gave up.
Speick contains witch hazel as a main ingredient. So if you've used Speick aftershave lotion you would have experienced it. Lucky Tiger has witch hazel as a main ingredient. Many of the artisan aftershaves from soapmakers in America use it. It's less common in Europe.
It's common in America to also buy bottles of witch hazel. It's sold in drug stores to use for skin problems.
I find it interesting that I consider Speick and Lucky Tiger to be fantastic splashes, but everytime I use Thayer's, I find that the post shave feel is extremely sub par.
Thayers has a few different formulations that vary the amount of alcohol and other ingredients. Lucky Tiger is my favorite but I mix it up. I used Thayers cucumber alcohol free chilled in the fridge this morning and it felt great on a hot humid day. I ordered an aftershave sample pack from West Coast Shaving and looking to try some popular splashes.
I've used the cucumber and the Super Hazel mixes. I found both to be less than optimal.
Do you mean compared to straight witch hazel? I'm using it straight up right now and find the smell unpleasant.
