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A little stiffer brush...

S

Sam

Well, Joel, you have held more brushes than probably three guys here combined, maybe excluding Ron. I have found that you do give an honest opinion and that many times, you and I line up exactly.

Here is my reasoning on why the PJ line may not work for me, and it goes back to Nathan's musings on the loft to knot ratio. The higher lofted brushes seem to give the brush more reason to open up, if not very dense, and the shaft strenght is more important. The PJ has a high loft for its knot size (I went to Ems web-site to check that out). The Chubby is relatively short and squatty. Shavemacs have the design of the knot to help it, and the shorter outside hairs kinda buttress the taller inner hairs. Lather seems to develop at the tips of the Shavemacs and not too deep into the handle end.

I know the feel of a brush is subjective, but with a forum like this, and many men commenting, some consistencies come to light. It is probably a given now that Kents are very soft and well made but they just splay open.

Rooney: not much feedback as far as I can tell. Finest is said to be quite white and quite soft, but then, it fetches a price like the HMW. At least Plisson offers different handles (I have seen ebony handles of Plissons on some English website).

Rik, I am tempted to take you up on the offer. I mean, all I lose is the shipping to you since Lee gives free shipping on his brushes to us. I would know in a week whether I love it or feel so-so about it, so you would have a virtually new brush. But I do not want to do that but in a last resort. I should be able to feel a Simpson Chubby in my hands later this week. We can see from there. If it is what I like, it is mine, and if not, I may go PJ3 Super. Duke 3 is doable but if I dont like the Chubby, I can not imagine that the hair in the Duke is that much different. Could be wrong

Sam
 
Sam, you have to remember that the Chubby will feel different from when it is dry to when it is lathered up, I hope you don't base your decision on feeling it when it is in the store. When lathered up it is real luxurious feeling and not rough.
 
Didn't we just just discuss this? :lol: :lol: :lol:

As an owner of a spanking new Simpson Chubby #2 Super (thanks Lee!), let me tell you my thoughts on it if it will be of any help. My experiences are mostly in reference to the Vulfix 2234 - 22mm knot, quite flexible, floppy and easily splays but very, very soft and nice and luxurious in its own way. The Simpson is an incredibly dense brush - they are just packed in there. Because of this, the brush when dry feels very stiff and not soft. Height-wise, the Chubby is just a little shorter than the 2234 overall. The handle is just a touch shorter and the bristles are about the same length thinking from memory here. The Chubby soaks up water like a SOB - significantly more than the Vulfix so I have had to readjust my lathering with the various creams and soaps - no biggee once I figured it out. The handle on the Chubby is a utility handle - not fantastic but not horrible either as many have stated. It is short (but not much shorter than the 2234 as I said) but it is squat and round without much shape - almost like holding a round cylinder. To be honest, I have no problems with the handle, it holds fine, it works with lathering just fine and I can shake it dry just fine, but it is is not a "dang, that feels just freaking wonderful in my hand" type of handle. It is more of a "I love these bristles and the handle is OK" type of handle.

Because the bristles are so densely packed, they provide significant scrubbing action, but it is a not an ouchy-type of scrubbing action. The ends are very soft so if you go lightly you get the softness and if you press a bit you get scrubbiness - it is a great compromise in a brush. I think it feels awesome - I love it. My bristles are 3 banded and super white on the tips - it is night and day different from the Vulfix Super - "Super" could not possibly be the same term to descibe these two bristles even though they are both labeled as such. The only other thing is the that bloom is huge on it and it is really lightbulbed in shape and holds that shape well. It is a fantastic brush at a great price - if you buy it and don't like it I am certain you will be able to sell it without much loss. I have some pictures that I took when it was new and I will take a few more next to the Vulfix when I get a chance - maybe in a month or so. :biggrin:

Dennis
 
Sam said:
Rik, I am tempted to take you up on the offer. I mean, all I lose is the shipping to you since Lee gives free shipping on his brushes to us. I would know in a week whether I love it or feel so-so about it, so you would have a virtually new brush. But I do not want to do that but in a last resort. I should be able to feel a Simpson Chubby in my hands later this week. We can see from there. If it is what I like, it is mine, and if not, I may go PJ3 Super. Duke 3 is doable but if I dont like the Chubby, I can not imagine that the hair in the Duke is that much different. Could be wrong

Sam
The offer stands. It is inevitable that I will be purchasing a PJ3 Super in the near future. Whether it comes directly from Lee or you is of little matter. I look forward to your opinion on the Chubby! :smile:
 
Sam- Rik's offer is kind, generous, and tremendous... Let me just add, briefly, that I agree fully with your observation about the loft-to-knot ratio. Everyone who loves their Chubby loves the feeling of the stiffness/firmness when applying the cream. I've heard that the Simpson hair is stiffer to begin with... The PJ3 definately has a larger ratio- larger loft, smaller knot -- than the Chub. I'm thinking of adding another brush, however, and I'm pretty sure the PJ3 sup will be my next acquisition. I gotta call Lee.
 
Sam,

You better wait til Bernd relaunches his brushes with the older bristles which he got delivered until the summer of 2005; after all, you do like your Shavemac very much if i understand you well; but if you want more scrubbing action, then an "old type" Shavemac would DEFINITELY :biggrin: be your ULTIMATE :biggrin: brush (hope so at least:001_rolle )

Peter
 
Sam,
I'd strongly recommend you take Rik up on this offer my friend.... an offer like this is few and far between - EVEN if you do feel a chubby 2 in best and decide you like it/want it - you STILL could potentially like the PJ3 super more. Due to the density of the PJ3 super, and the ridgidity of the badger hair (the "super" PJ3 hair is stiffer than the duke/chubby best hair) I find that even due to the greater loft of the PJ3 - that my PJ3 in Super is slightly stiffer/more ridgid than my Duke 3 in best badger - the big difference is however, the PJ3 works/feels/looks better and has a WAY better handle.

You can send the brush to Rik VIA USPS Priority mail for $3.85..... so you are taking a $3.85 cent risk to try a brush you might love.... pick up the PJ3 Super today.
 
For what it is worth, I say "nonsense" to things like loft ratios, etc. As someone who owns a PJ3/super I can tell you it does not behave like a high-loft, floppy brush, in fact quite the opposite. It is quite a scrubber while being very soft at the tips.
 
Yes, I haven't actually heard ANYONE say that the PJ3 behaves like a Vulfix or Kent, or even a Shavemac... It's possible (probable, now hearing from Scotto) that the PJ3, despite its loft/knot ratio, is just as firm & scrubby (in a good way) as any other Simpson.
 
I'd be curious what the difference is between the PJ3 and Chubby #2 in super (besides the handle, of course)... Hmmm...

Dennis
 
S

Sam

Joel: If I do not like the look or feel, unlathered, of the Chubby, I will get a PJ3 Super under Rik's offer.

Dr. P: I did not know that Bernd is re-doing his brushes. I could go back then to a 23mm soap only brush at his prices for the new/old hair

Sam
 
Sam said:
Joel: If I do not like the look or feel, unlathered, of the Chubby, I will get a PJ3 Super under Rik's offer.

Sam - $3.95 in shipping is too good to pass up. Even if you like the PJ3 Super after ordering it, you can always sell it to Rik anyway and know that you like it for some future purchase as opposed to never seeing it and wondering. My two pennies.

Dennis
 
Mike02 said:
I'd be curious what the difference is between the PJ3 and Chubby #2 in super (besides the handle, of course)... Hmmm...

Dennis

Dennis,
Having both a Chubby 2 in Super and a PJ3 in Super - both of which in the "brush wars" and both of which have been used under the exact same conditions, starting new - I think I can help quite a bit. The chubby has shorter thicker bristle and is packed tighter, however what make it even MORE robust is the fact that the chubby super is the only brush in the Simpson line (save for perhaps the Duke slightly) that has the more "lightbulb" shaped brush head which makes it less suseptable to "splaying" out against your face. If you really mash the chubby 2 super against your face - it is not necessarily uncomfortable, but for those with sensitive skin it will surely leave your face red. Due to the Chubby's tremendously dense knot, and water holding capabilities it is tricky - especially for those not accostomed to brushes like this, to generate as luxurious a lather - and to do so effortlessly. I also find the chubby requires more cream/soap to really get going - but it doesn't seem to make as much lather as the PJ3 Super, as the PJ3 is softer and will open up a bit, and as a result while the chubby may have a larger knot, and more badger hair - the PJ3 has a larger USABLE surface area of lather generating/storing badger hair. I am 6'3 and have rather large hands - and as a result I find the Chubby 2 handle unsuitable. It is "usable" but of ALL 30+ of my brushes it is without question the least comfortable and the most akward. Not only is the handle incredibly "fat" and wide, but it is also short - and offers VERY little area to grip as there is a "ridge" in the bottom/center of the handle.

The PJ3 on the other hand is a totally different beast. The PJ3 is by no means "floppy" yet it still is soft and luxurious - much like a "floppy" brush. This brush does provide a scrubbing action which is quite invigorating - but it is gentle enough to not cause redness/irritation to those with sensitive skin. Due to the nature of the PJ3 Super and its loft/bristle density - the crown of the brush is much larger, and thus acts like larger brush than the chubby 2... in fact when putting my PJ2 next to my chubby 2 - they are more closely related as far as "usable" size is concerned. (As a side note - my PJ2 is more robust than my PJ2 and has a much "sportier" feel to it - and it is my opinon that although quite different - I much prefer the PJ2 to the PJ3 - and thus far I have not experienced a superior brush to the PJ2 Super, as it has the perfect blend of size, comfort, good looks, stiffness/scrubbing action, softness, and ease of use) As far as handles go - the PJ series is pretty hard to beat, and I have never heard so much as a single negative comment on the comfort/shape of the PJ series handle. One word can describe it - superb.

In a nutshell - the Chubby 2 Super is a compact, firm scrubbing machine and in its own right and for a specific audience wanting such characteristics is unparalleled. The Chubby 2 Super is simply an incredible brush. Due to this brushes tremendous stifness - it is somewhat of a "one trick pony" as it seems to have one purpose... scrub like the dickens.
The PJ3 Super on the other hand is a lot more "user friendly" is more laid back, relaxed and luxurious. Sure it scrubs, sure it isn't the densist, largest, or most expensive brush in the Simpson line - but it is one thing... an absolute pleasure to use. If you enjoy shaving brushes for the sensory pleasure of luxury, whilst still want the inherent "pro's" of a "scrubby" brush -without it being a "one trick pony" the PJ3 Super (hell the PJ2 Super) is really a great mix, and a superb comprimise.

To choose one - I PERSONALLY would go with a PJ2/3 hands down - but if I had the choice of only 3 brushes in my collection - i'd want an amazingly soft brush - my new Muhle-Pinsel Silvertip (review to come), my PJ2 Super, and..... the Chubby 2. Sure I have a couple rooneys, plissons, and a scattering of "other" brushes - but the aformentioned 3 brushes are totally unlike any other brush. The Muhle make a kent feel like pine needles it is so soft, the PJ2 is just an all around PERFECT daily use brush, and the Chubby 2 is a world class raw/sheer performance brush. You can't find a brush as soft as the muhle, as well balanced as the PJ2, or as robust/performance based as the Chubby 2. I guess I added this last little paragraph to show that while I may PERSONALLY prefer the PJ series, that does not mean I discredit, dislike, or feel the "chubby" series is inferior. The Chubby series offers an experience unlike ANY other shaving brush - which makes it special in its own way. Some prefer a lexus, others a corvette - simply a matter of personal taste/preference.
 
S

Sam

Joel: You obviously have an ability to convey impressions that for the most part I have always found to be spot on. You know I have that XXL Shavemac 30mm knot brush, which is my cream brush. SMF1 goes both ways very well. The 23mm one kinda needed some more oomph. Thus I sold it and am looking.

My thought is the 27mm Chubby 2 is a cream and soap brush, and I then can go for a soap only brush, but closer to the 23mm or 24mm size. Plisson Euro White size 12 or 14 measure 22 but most say it is closer to 24. SHorter lofts, shaped like the Shavemac, and you seem to think that they make good soap brushes. Also I was thinking of a Rooney Style 1, medium (24) or small (22) in Super that is under $100 either way, for a soap brush. Now this PJ2/3 have me considering my impression of that PJ1. I really thought the PJ1 was, if anything, a soap brush. Really small, I think it is 19mm.

Sam
 
Nice comparison Joel. Your thoughts on the Chubby mirror mine so far. You should have sent a pm - your post caused Sam to keep thinking. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Dennis
 
S

Sam

As far as handle, sure the XXL Shavemac is a big one, and wide, but I do fine by it. I actually prefer to use it to the SMF1, but I prefer to look at the SMF1 brush handle. I am 5'10" and my hands are small for a guy. I probably would not be as affected with the Chubby 2 handle. Heck, EM at one time had a brush in SUper labeled Chubby 2 but it had the Chubby 3 handle so it might have had a bit more hair.

Sam
 
Sam said:
Joel: You obviously have an ability to convey impressions that for the most part I have always found to be spot on. You know I have that XXL Shavemac 30mm knot brush, which is my cream brush. SMF1 goes both ways very well. The 23mm one kinda needed some more oomph. Thus I sold it and am looking.

My thought is the 27mm Chubby 2 is a cream and soap brush, and I then can go for a soap only brush, but closer to the 23mm or 24mm size. Plisson Euro White size 12 or 14 measure 22 but most say it is closer to 24. SHorter lofts, shaped like the Shavemac, and you seem to think that they make good soap brushes. Also I was thinking of a Rooney Style 1, medium (24) or small (22) in Super that is under $100 either way, for a soap brush. Now this PJ2/3 have me considering my impression of that PJ1. I really thought the PJ1 was, if anything, a soap brush. Really small, I think it is 19mm.

Sam

I must unfortunatly disagree - I am not much a fan of the chubby with soaps. The handle, the short bristle, and the "large" brush make it difficult to use, as lather quickly comes onto the handle, and with that chunky handle - it is a slippery mess. Also - the chubby has a lot of "power" to it, and creates a awful mess with soaps. Sure - it COULD be used as a soap brush, but it is neither gracious, or efficacious in doing so. The chubby also holds a tremendous amount of water, and as a result it takes a lot of soap to get the thing going without having too "wet" a mixture, so it isn't very economical - and again think of the "mess" involved with balancing the water/soap ratio as you have to keep working the soap - hence I call the chubby 2 super a "one trick pony." 27mm is a big big brush to use for soaps.

I think you are focusing far too much on knot sizes, brand names, and too many choices - as no matter what we tell ya you keep bringing up 5 or 6 different brushes :wink: :tongue: :wink:

Also - forget about your PJ1 best, and the impressions you have had with it. Consider this - you weren't much a fan of your 23mm Shavemac with new style hair, which is why you sold it. Comparing your experiences with your PJ1 best is akin to having ONLY tried the 23mm shavemac you sold and didn't like - to your shavemac XXL with the old style of hair - as it is not a fair comparison, as the different hair and different knot size RADICALLY change the overall makeup of a brush. Having owned the Shavemac XXL you KNOW it is a lot different than the new style 23mm shavemac - so had you been drawing conclusions on the XXL based on your 23mm experience (not having used/seen the XXL) you KNOW that would be incorrect. Just because a PJ1 Best has the same general handle shape of the rest of the PJ series - in NO way means it is even remotely similar to a PJ2 best, PJ3 best, or a PJ1/2/3 super. There is a world of a difference in feel between my PJ2 and PJ3 both in super, so I canimagine comparing the PJ1 best with the aformentioned 2 would be futile. For what it is worth all of the brushes I have used with Simpson Best hair - have not really "wow'ed" me and I would not/will not purchase another in best.

Sam.... I think you like talking about what you might buy more than you like buying/using it! :lol: :biggrin: :tongue:
 
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