A&E K2e Soap Underperforming

[jimmyrules712]

I've been on a kick lately to try all the top reviewed artisan soap bases and A&E K2e has not performed like I expected given the raving reviews it always seems to get. For comparisons sake, using the same brush and similar load time and amount of water, I got AMAZING lathers from B&M Omnibus and Zingari Man Sego. Both effortlessly gave me a perfect slick yogurt consistency lather. Declaration Grooming Milksteak was almost as good, maybe just a hair below those 2.

After trying those 3 I moved on to A&E K2e (Kaizen scent specifically). I assumed it would provide a similar or maybe even slightly better level of performance but the lather I got was too foamy and bubbly and overall not that great. I tried it again the next day and tried loading longer, adding more water, and lathering longer and got a similar result. Perhaps I need to spend more time "dialing in" my technique to meet this soap's particular requirements but no such effort was needed for Omnibus, Sego, or Milksteak so I'm just a bit perplexed.

I had similar issues with Stirling which I attributed to the fact that it's not considered to be quite as good of a formula but I had higher expectations for A&E. I do have notoriously hard water so I wonder if my water chemistry is impacting it. Has anyone else had similar results from A&E K2e?

 

[AndyPanda]

My city has fairly soft water and I get very nice lather with the K, K2 and K2e. I'm face lathering with a badger brush and the K2e is slick, creamy with lots of cushion. Residual slickness is good and the post shave feel is great.

I'd suggest lathering with some bottled or distilled water and see if it makes a difference.

I bought some Choco Cubano recently and the soap was quite hard/dry. It took a bit of work the first few times to get the brush to load. My other A&E soaps get used regularly, loading the brush from the container, so the soap is already hydrated/soft and the brush loads up really quickly. I tend to load with just barely damp brush and then face lather starting fairly thick paste and I spritz water from a little spray bottle right on my face - work the lather a little and spritz some more water - lather some more - repeat until I get a creamy yogurt consistency.

 

[RayClem]

A&E K2e is one of my super elite soap formulations. However, I do have soft water.

In looking at the ingredient listing of K2e, I do not see any specifically added for the purpose of dealing with soft water. However, Zingari Man does not either. B&M Omnibus has Tetrasodium Ethylenediamine Disuccinate which is a chelating agent that will help with hard water.

One thing you can do if you have hard water is purchase a jug of water purified by distillation or reverse osmosis from the grocery store. The jugs are inexpensive and will last you for several months as you will only need to use about 2-3 teaspoons for each shave.

You say that you are using the same amount of water for each soap and are loading from the pucks the same amount of time. That process might not result in a properly hydrated lather. Depending upon the ingredients, some soaps are thirstier than others.
I have developed a process for evaluating the hydration of lather; perhaps you will find it useful.
1. Fill your sink or a bowl with warm water until it reaches overflowing. Then reduce the water flow to a trickle.
2. Lather your face and make a few swipes with the razor.
3. Dip the razor gently into the water of the sink or bowl and observe what happens. Do not swirl the razor.
4. If the lather tends to cling to the razor such that swirling is needed to remove it, then the lather is too dry and needs more water. Add a few drops of water to the lather and repeat the process.
5. If the lather immediately releases from the razor and disperses into the water, the lather is too thin. Swirl your brush on top of the soap tub once or twice to pick up more soap and incorporate that into your lather.
6. If the lather quickly releases from the razor and floats to the surface as a cloud of lather and remains intact, you have the lather properly hydrated. Some soaps have a very narrow range of hydration; other have more latitude.

If K2e is not performing up to your expectations, I suspect you will find it needs a little more water. Peter's soaps tend to be a little thirsty. The initial Kaizen soap was the prime example of this, but lather revisions were not quite as thirsty.

 

[Tuco 43]

I tried Stirling soaps, Sharp Dress Man, twice and got bad razor burn. I was hoping it would work because it smelled great. Maybe, I will try it again and see what happens.

 

[jollyroger]

I agree with the point of poor lathering off A & E soaps. I have several left and recently have used up a few too

¥Whilst I get a good shave result ~ I`m not getting much mileage out of them in sense they don`t lather uop well and don`t last long if you like a big lather up.

As such I will not buy them again...although love the Coco Cabana and some of their other scents

Stirling, PAA , Simpsons, Paolo Barasso, Musgo, Trumpers I find excellent and much better.

The other big one is my wife and kids hate his sexist labels and said are downgrading..that killed me buying more...I reckon he has lost a lot of business due to those labels...My women just hate them and rightly so..when wife sees that, it can also turn off the positive bedroom mood with her too , which is another good reason not to use them too!!

I`ll be sticking to others instead!

 

[jollyroger]

I've been on a kick lately to try all the top reviewed artisan soap bases and A&E K2e has not performed like I expected given the raving reviews it always seems to get. For comparisons sake, using the same brush and similar load time and amount of water, I got AMAZING lathers from B&M Omnibus and Zingari Man Sego. Both effortlessly gave me a perfect slick yogurt consistency lather. Declaration Grooming Milksteak was almost as good, maybe just a hair below those 2.

After trying those 3 I moved on to A&E K2e (Kaizen scent specifically). I assumed it would provide a similar or maybe even slightly better level of performance but the lather I got was too foamy and bubbly and overall not that great. I tried it again the next day and tried loading longer, adding more water, and lathering longer and got a similar result. Perhaps I need to spend more time "dialing in" my technique to meet this soap's particular requirements but no such effort was needed for Omnibus, Sego, or Milksteak so I'm just a bit perplexed.

I had similar issues with Stirling which I attributed to the fact that it's not considered to be quite as good of a formula but I had higher expectations for A&E. I do have notoriously hard water so I wonder if my water chemistry is impacting it. Has anyone else had similar results from A&E K2e?

In agreement re A&E soaps..find they don`t last long if you aim for a big or thick lather..and work out too expensive and then there are the stupid sexist labels that the ladies hate...they do perform well if above is not an issue mind you. Stirling comment are surprised as find them superb on all fronts , except Pineapple which I found kinda burns my skin

 

[Cino]

I'm glad I'm not alone. I purchased Choco Cubano. I love the scent, but for the life of me I just can't get a decent lather out of it. I have very soft water, but it's still a chore to get a decent lather.

 

[OhioBob]

I tried Stirling soaps, Sharp Dress Man, twice and got bad razor burn. I was hoping it would work because it smelled great. Maybe, I will try it again and see what happens.

Try one or more of their Mutton Tallow soaps. I like their Glastonbury, Varen and Unscented Sheep.

 

[RayClem]

In agreement re A&E soaps..find they don`t last long if you aim for a big or thick lather..and work out too expensive and then there are the stupid sexist labels that the ladies hate...they do perform well if above is not an issue mind you. Stirling comment are surprised as find them superb on all fronts , except Pineapple which I found kinda burns my skin

The Ariana and Evans soaps like K2e do not need a thick lather. They are designed to be low-structure soaps. You only need to apply lather about 1/16" thick to get the slickness and protection you need for your shave. If you are trying to apply a thick coating, you are just wasting soap. You razor will scrape off the excess and it will get washed down the drain.

 

[cavediver]

My first A&E soap was K2 Vanille Vendetta and for the life of me I couldn't get good lather with it. I was about to give it away, when I finally got the hang of it.
So i see where the thread is coming from and understand the issues. A&E soaps might be a bit different to lather than others, more challenging initially I guess.

Having said that, when done right, it's anything but difficult and you can get your preferred type of lather with it - thick and creamy, a bit thinner or huge amounts of puffy soap.

The key for me is to never use too much water at the start and not to put too much pressure on the brush or the soap may settle deep inside the brush. Then I add water, as needed, until the consistency is perfect.
The soap will end up needing quite a bit water and it does need good technique to build the lather.

I prefer the thick creamy lather that covers the skin well and have no issues getting it right pretty much every time. Fast forward to today and I rotate between 11 different A&E soaps and love them all, no matter the base. Most are K2e but some are K2 and pre K2 and they all work the same here.
The original puck of Vanille Vendetta is now gone, I got exactly 60 shaves out of it, but wasted a lot of soap especially in the earlier attempts to get it right.
Even small amounts yield ample lather for three passes plus cleanups. So if need be, I'm sure one could get close to 100 shaves and more from a puck.
As to the reasons I prefer A&E is that I find the chances of needing a styptic pencil are much lower than with any other soap in my den, including some more or less expensive artisan brands. And the scents are just unparalleled, YMMV as always.

 

[AndyPanda]

The Ariana and Evans soaps like K2e do not need a thick lather. They are designed to be low-structure soaps. You only need to apply lather about 1/16" thick to get the slickness and protection you need for your shave. If you are trying to apply a thick coating, you are just wasting soap. You razor will scrape off the excess and it will get washed down the drain.

+1
The K2e has Hyaluronic Acid and Emu Oil that weren't in the previous bases. The HA is super slick and protective and the Emu Oil leaves a really nice post shave feel but I suspect the emu oil is the reason it doesn't burst into fluffy mounds of lather. I get a very rich, slick and protective lather with the K2e.

I love my K2e soaps and I still have a few Kaizen base and K2 base soaps that I love as well. The K2e base is what got me interested in HA and emu oil. I buy straight HA powder and mix up small, fresh batch of HA serum every 2 weeks (very inexpensive this way). I've started adding a few drops of HA serum to my loaded brush before face lathering when I'm using non-K2e soaps and I think it gives me a little extra slickness/cushion --- and then after the shave, I apply another few drops of HA and once it absorbs into my face I use a drop or two of emu oil to seal it in. (yeah, I'm a geek)

Anyway ... I think the K2e base is top notch stuff

 

[Cino]

Anybody care to share a photo or two of their lather?

 

[steelwindmachine]

On @RayClem's insights I just received in a tub of St. Bart's. I'm coming from MdC. Am trying to keep my expectations low and just do my best to get a proper lather application and see what happens.

I'm glad to know some of the tips laid out here prior to my shaving with it so I can give it the best chance to shine.

I'll be testing it with some slants, GEMs and Schicks.

found this video by them demonstrating the lathering (Ultima base):

 

[RayClem]

On @RayClem's insights I just received in a tub of St. Bart's. I'm coming from MdC. Am trying to keep my expectations low and just do my best to get a proper lather application and see what happens.

I'm glad to know some of the tips laid out here prior to my shaving with it so I can give it the best chance to shine.

I'll be testing it with some slants, GEMs and Schicks.

found this video by them demonstrating the lathering (Ultima base):

I reviewed Peter's lather video. Personally, I believe he is using way too much soap and ending up with more lather than he needs for his shave. Of course, since he sells soap, he wants you to use a lot of it.

I have not tried Peter's new Ultima base; I am waiting for release of a fragrance I want to add to my collection.

 

[steelwindmachine]

if you don’t mind me recounting my experience here, i had my second go with the St Barts tonight and i loaded for about 15 seconds.

i got a paste consistency on my face and then started adding in water to my brush. it worked up a seemingly thick lather to where it would float in my sink.

first pass with my Superslant L3 and Treet was fast and smooth.

second pass lather was decent and still smooth.

rinsed and alum was a bit warm and stingy. made me wonder if face lathering this soap for me is causing irritation or a chemical like burn aside from a few weepers.

i rinsed thoroughly and let my face dry a few hours before putting on some Everyman Jack aftershave lotion that then burned a bit.

i’m not sure if my lather is poor, soap isn’t compatible with my skin and/or if vigorous face lathering with my synthetic brush is problematic.

any troubleshooting advice is appreciated.

 

[ohansen]

If you don't mind me asking, why are you vigorously face lathering? This soap should readily produce lather without requiring excessive effort. K2e is an a soap known to have minimal bubble formation and a heavy cream-like texture that sits on the face. I suggest introducing more water upfront to hydrate the soap.

 

[steelwindmachine]

@ohansen - my intention was for the vigorous face lathering to exfoliate my skin and rapidly build a lather.

I was following the technique in this video:

Seemed like he was rapidly swirling.

My lathering technique needs more practice. I've been using shaving oil for the last few months. And, I'm used to the lather building of MdC which is a bit different, but I'm realizing could also be better.

Sometimes I wish there was a online group wet-shaving seminar where a bunch of us all work on this together

 

[ohansen]

@ohansen - my intention was for the vigorous face lathering to exfoliate my skin and rapidly build a lather.

I was following the technique in this video:

Seemed like he was rapidly swirling.

My lathering technique needs more practice. I've been using shaving oil for the last few months. And, I'm used to the lather building of MdC which is a bit different, but I'm realizing could also be better.

Sometimes I wish there was a online group wet-shaving seminar where a bunch of us all work on this together

My recommendation is to avoid following the instructions provided in the video. Peter, who is a salesman, is showcasing an excessive amount of lather. However, it's important to note that voluminous lather, such as the one demonstrated, does not serve any practical purpose. In fact, it could potentially hinder the effectiveness of a smooth and slippery lather.

 

[Barbarian80]

About 10-12 seconds of swirling a damp brush over the soap is more than enough for 3 passes. I think that's a perfect load time for just about every artisan crop I've ever used. If you need more, spend another 3 or 5 seconds; if you need less spend 8-10 seconds swirling. 30 seconds is insane and you're just throwing money down the drain.

Regardless of wasting your money- Loading for that long will give you an exorbitant amount of product and you'll be spending time adding lots of water over and over and over to dial it in. You may not be able to ever hydrate it enough. While it's enjoyable to cake lather onto your face and swirl it around with a big badger brush it's not going to give you the best results.

 

[steelwindmachine]

@Barbarian80 - thank you for that! Since Peter's video is in real time and I don't think edited, he doesn't actually load for 30 seconds.

Last night I loaded for about 15 seconds. I just need to get a better feel for this soap with my brush, my water and what's happening on my face.

And yes, I do acknowledge that his loading is wasteful, but like everyone here has said, he's trying to sell soap.

Thankfully, the product is actually thought of in high regard despite his showmanship.