A DULL Experiment in Shave Ready

[dundak]

For the past 6 months I’ve been experimenting in what’s the minimum for shave ready.

My dad used to say never let your tools substitute for technique. I have noticed over the years a focus on honing on the forums and optimizing the edge of a straight. I wanted to see if that was really needed.

I used two razors. A Dovo 6/8 Best Quality and an old restored Cattaraugus 5/8. The Dovo was honed on a C13K as normal then I ran a glass stirring rod lightly against the edge and stropped normally. The 5/8 was was honed with a coticule with three layers of tape to put an obtuse bevel on it then stropped on slack leather.

Neither razor would pass a HHT with any hair tried (horse, human or badger), they would cut arm hair but only flush to 1 mm above the surface and both barely passed the thumb pad test. You could feel the slightest grab on the TPT but were not sticky at all. When stropping the feedback is very muted and I would have set these razors aside to be touched up just for that reason.

First shaves were pretty crappy. I intentionally just used straight vertical passes that relied strictly on push cutting ability to get the job done.

Each razor will now give about a BBS but require a lot of technique for me to accomplish. I have to do a lot of slides, guillotines and scythes to get the job done. Also to hit certain areas I have to pinch the skin and kind of shave the wave. Buffing is a must also. The first pass usually leaves stubble that equivalent to what I would have post 8-12 hours after a normal shave in those difficult areas ( jawline, chin, corners of mouth , upper lip) The second pass leaves me about 98% BBS. Well soaked whiskers are a must. I let the lather sit on my face while brushing my teeth and stropping then refresh it right before using the blade.

So far I have about 100 shaves on each razor maintained with just leather and linen. Both have been refreshed once on a FeOx loom strop and were tested after to make sure they still failed HHT and TPT.

The time it takes to shave was roughly 2-5 minutes longer compared to a well honed razor when I started but is now the same.

My conclusion is that as long as your bevel is set fully along the edge that you can get a perfectly good shave with a thicker apex ( ie less keen edge) then what consensus would have you believe and get zero irritation. I have never gotten one weeper or hot spot with these razors. I rarely get them normally but considering some of the gymnastics (at least for me) I’ve been using to shave with them I would have expected a few. I probably would have if they were as keen as my usual razor.

This is all anecdotal and my face is not yours but I find it intriguing and reinforces the the fact that bevel formation is the most important aspect of honing. I wish I had more accurate ways to measure because it begs me to find out how thin of an apex you actually need on your edge to get the job done, given your technique and prep.

I also hope it encourages guys to realize you don’t need to be a Jedi honing guru with top of the line stones to get a good shave and keep the razor going for a while.

Happy shaves.


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[Namkcakram]

Sounds pointless.

See what I did there?

I guess the question is do you miss having a sharp razor?

 

[Slash McCoy]

You are right. Skill can make a meh edge shave fairly well. Takes more work, more effort. The plus side is that while a dull knive will cut you quicker than a sharp one, a dull razor won't filet your face near as eagerly as a deadly sharp one. A dull razor forces you to better technique, too. The old timers back in the day using barber hones would be amazed at even a 12k synthetic edge today. They would call it "harsh" and put it away, or kill it and give it a rub on the Swaty and a few laps on the pasted paddle. A coticule was luxury incarnate. They shaved, and got good shaves without punishing their faces.

So yeah, a science fiction sharp razor is not a requirement for a good shave. But it does help, and as for me, it definitely increases my enjoyment.

 

[Twelvefret]

I've never understood intentionally dulling a razor. There are many, perhaps most here , who just like to sharpen things. They have 30 rocks. I get it. No harm no foul.

There are others, like me, whose focus is shaving. I've found a way to make the razors in my collection shave ready for my beard. I would not want an edge where I had to work harder. One thing my grandfather emphasized was to use the right tool for the job and to use the tool as intended. Seems to me using a minimally sharpened razor was never the intent of the maker.

 

[hydro-magic]

It's an interesting experiment. Do you experience a lot of tugging or have you developed techniques that overcome it? I get how a slightly less keen blade might be easier on the skin but when my blade starts to lose its keenness I get tugging that reminds me of my old Fusion days. That tugging makes my face hurt for the whole rest of the day just like it used to when I shaved with the 5-bladed abomination.

 

[dundak]

It was more an experiment in what Slash iterated. Back in the day one did not have access to bounty of options available today when it comes to abrasives. The average shaver probably used much coarser abrasives and relied on his strop to maintain and refine an edge. The results of a shave were probably less stringent too. I doubt a customer complained to their barber if his face was not BBS. Comfort with decent results were probably more preferable.

I just wanted to see what was just enough. I doubt highly that gents knew what a HHT was or tested their razors on grapes and tomatoes as a requirement to shave.

I did experience more tugging and skipping if I tried to do long strokes. I compensated by refreshing my lather more, doing small sliding strokes and wiping lather off the blade more frequently. Also good stropping helped because the shaves improved slightly on a daily basis.

I know some see it as folly but for me it was a relatively fun experience to tap into the roots of straight shaving and refine my techniques with both strop and razor. If it had become arduous or painful I just would have dropped it. Instead I found I learned a lot from it. YMMV.


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[global_dev]

to put an obtuse bevel on it

can you explain this a bit more?

About 6 years ago, i started shaving off a 1.2K edge and my notes were

“once i figured i was at bevel set point, gave it a good stropping and it went off really well.

i was expecting much harsher and kind of uncomfortable shave. not at all, pretty decent, no pulling, no tugging”

 

[dundak]

Most razor users and makers state that the bevel angle of a razor should be 15 to 17 degrees. I put tape on the razor to give me a more obtuse 25+ degree angle. It was an easy way to make the razor less keen. I then stropped on more slack leather to round of the apex more.

It was actually the most difficult part of the experiment. To set a good bevel then tweak it so it would not pass any commonly accepted shave ready test. I chose the easiest ways that I could repeat consistently if needed.

Right now i have moved on to shaving with an old Torrey using just a fine India, fine Carborundum or an old scythe stone as my only abrasives to set a bevel and shave with. Relying on my stropping to improve the edge.

It’s all anecdotal but fun.


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[global_dev]

ah. more obtuse, not just obtuse.

 

[Polarbeard]

You are right. Skill can make a meh edge shave fairly well. Takes more work, more effort. The plus side is that while a dull knive will cut you quicker than a sharp one, a dull razor won't filet your face near as eagerly as a deadly sharp one. A dull razor forces you to better technique, too. The old timers back in the day using barber hones would be amazed at even a 12k synthetic edge today. They would call it "harsh" and put it away, or kill it and give it a rub on the Swaty and a few laps on the pasted paddle. A coticule was luxury incarnate. They shaved, and got good shaves without punishing their faces.

So yeah, a science fiction sharp razor is not a requirement for a good shave. But it does help, and as for me, it definitely increases my enjoyment.

Thank you for an excellent post.

 

[Slash McCoy]

We had a guy here on this forum, I don't remember who, who as an experiment, shaved off a 1k Norton and unpasted hanging strop. He used lather to finish, a couple hundred laps of diminishing pressure to the point of floating the razor high in the lather cushion. He reported the shave to be less than satisfying but at least socially acceptable and with only moderate burn/irritation. It CAN be done, with a bit of skill and experience. I just don't recommend it and I would probably quit shaving if that was my only honing option. For many shavers 100 years ago, it WAS the only option or equivalent to it, I would think.

 

[dundak]

We had a guy here on this forum, I don't remember who, who as an experiment, shaved off a 1k Norton and unpasted hanging strop. He used lather to finish, a couple hundred laps of diminishing pressure to the point of floating the razor high in the lather cushion. He reported the shave to be less than satisfying but at least socially acceptable and with only moderate burn/irritation. It CAN be done, with a bit of skill and experience. I just don't recommend it and I would probably quit shaving if that was my only honing option. For many shavers 100 years ago, it WAS the only option or equivalent to it, I would think.

I’ve done similar and am doing it again with coarser natural stones to set the bevel. So far results are very, very good.

It’s my way of having fun with the hobby. It brings me closer to family that has passed too. It clarifies things they have told me and demystifies habits and methods I saw them use when straight shaving, stropping and honing.

When my dad was alive in the early 2000’s I would talk to him about things I read on the forums and groups about straight shaving. His stock answer was to laugh and say “They gotta remember it’s a razor, not a knife”. This is not to dismiss what people are doing now but reminds me to rethink the dogma and embrace what those before us did and learn why. Men of the generations before me shaved daily with these instruments with a minimalist approach and enjoyed it.

To me it has enhanced my shaving by forcing me to focus on the basics that make it easy...bevel, stropping, and technique. So when I read about methods or products that enhance your shave I automatically see where it would improve my results in those foundations.

YMMV


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[dundak]

As an anecdote my Dad and I where eating lunch in the Johns Hopkins Hospital cafeteria around 1975. During the lunch he invited over two men, both in their 90s. I found out that both were responsible for sharpening the scalpels, microtomes, shears etc that were used by the staff back in the day. They now worked as volunteers.

The favored stone for scalpels was a hard black ark. When I asked what they used on razors they said a soft ark or Belgian oilstone. A black ark would give too harsh an edge that would cut skin easier and why would you want that? Different times, different thoughts.


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[johnb65]

Really interesting post, the old guys would think some of us mad with hundreds of pounds of stones and microscopes I am sure. I watched a programme on TV recently when some squaddies in WW1 were saying how poor their razors were. I have a WW1 razor and sharpened it the other day on 1000, 2000,4000,5000,8000 and 12000 stones checking on a microscope between stones, shaved wonderfully. I wouldn't want to be messing about like that in a trench under fire I guess !!!
We are lucky to be able to enjoy our hobby as we do, I am sure shaving for my Father and Grandfather was just a chore....and if they knew what I spent on one puck of shaving soap !!

 

[Namkcakram]

I've never understood intentionally dulling a razor. There are many, perhaps most here , who just like to sharpen things. They have 30 rocks. I get it. No harm no foul.

I’m with you, only intentional dulling that makes any sense is taking a “jointing pass” down the edge to even out any irregularities. But man you can usually get a tone of sharpenings between needing to straighten/even a bevel.

If I wanted to really get the pot stirring I’d say something like “everyone finishing on average coticules intentionally dulls their razors already!”

 

[Twelvefret]

Really interesting post, the old guys would think some of us mad with hundreds of pounds of stones and microscopes I am sure. I watched a programme on TV recently when some squaddies in WW1 were saying how poor their razors were. I have a WW1 razor and sharpened it the other day on 1000, 2000,4000,5000,8000 and 12000 stones checking on a microscope between stones, shaved wonderfully. I wouldn't want to be messing about like that in a trench under fire I guess !!!
We are lucky to be able to enjoy our hobby as we do, I am sure shaving for my Father and Grandfather was just a chore....and if they knew what I spent on one puck of shaving soap !!

I would not want the infections stemming from the cuts.