A couple of ?'s before I jump into making a Straight ..

[Wm. T]

Hi , I just wanted to ask a few questions before I jump into making a Straight razor . I've tried to watch as many videos and I've looked at a lot of threads and I've looked at almost all of the info referenced in the Restoration sticky . But a few things I can't seem to find any reference for..

1) The distance from the Shoulder to Pivot hole - the Shank ? Min/Max ? What's normal and accepted ?
2) Pivot hole . Height from Edge/Spine ? Where is is nomally measured from and again - what is normal ?
3) The Tang - length , curve/point what direction , function ?
4) Thickness at Spine - are they always so thick ?
5) Radius of Grind - What is a good wheel to start with ?
I'm ordering wheels for my Bader Grinder tomorrow . I'm a knifemaker , but I only flat grind . I'm thinking a 4" wheel would be a good place to start as I'll probably make 7/8's or larger till my comfort zone grows ..

Actually , I'll hold off a couple of days on the hope I get some feedback on wheel size ...

I'm sure some more questions will come to me , so I'll add'em as I go ..

Thanks , Bill

 

[Blix]

Now I can't help with the tech questions, but I would advice you to learn shaving with a straight before you start making them, get a bunch of blades of various grinds and types and get to lean what it's all about. Then start making them.

 

[Wm. T]

Hey Blix , This first one is for me to shave with ....
Right now I have an old Joseph Rodgers and Sons in not quite 6/8'ths . Part of that comfort zone thing I mentioned was about shaving with something that seems so narrow to me .. and scary .. I'm going to use the building process to build the courage as well .
I use a DE now .. wanna make the leap .. but I'm gonna do it with my 1st build .

 

[Blix]

Hey Blix , This first one is for me to shave with ....
Right now I have an old Joseph Rodgers and Sons in not quite 6/8'ths . Part of that comfort zone thing I mentioned was about shaving with something that seems so narrow to me .. and scary .. I'm going to use the building process to build the courage as well .
I use a DE now .. wanna make the leap .. but I'm gonna do it with my 1st build .

Why wait, get the Rodgers honed and start right now!

My point is that if you get to know various types, sizes and grinds, and get the shaving part down good, it will be much easier for you to make razors that shave well.
But hey, I will of course not say you shouldn't start making them right away, I know how it is...

 

[MileMarker60]

I will echo what Blix is saying. Some of the best info on making a razor is by learning to use one.
Once you have that part down it will cut your question down to just a few.
Knowing how one should work and feel in your hand is half the battle.
Pick up a few different makes, a German, American, England (which you already have). They don't have to be pricey or pretty, just usable.
Then get them honed up and jump in..

 

[Wm. T]

I can't believe you guys are bullying me into a shave !

I've made dozens of hunting and skinning knives and no one made me kill anything ... !!

I'm honing the J.R.&Son now .. I have a Torrey , Wade & Butcher and a Vom Cleef on the way as well .. all different sizes ...

Glad I'm keeping my goatee ..

 

[Blix]

I can't believe you guys are bullying me into a shave !

I've made dozens of hunting and skinning knives and no one made me kill anything ... !!

I'm honing the J.R.&Son now .. I have a Torrey , Wade & Butcher and a Vom Cleef on the way as well .. all different sizes ...

Glad I'm keeping my goatee ..

I'd say you should send out one of them for a professional honing as well...
It's often said that knowing how to sharpen knives can be a disadvantage when trying to hone razors, not that much in common.

How are you honing the J.R?

 

[MileMarker60]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for you making your own. The problem is how will you know if it right if you're not use to using one.
Much the same as, I wouldn't recommend someone go hunting if they've never shot a gun.

 

[rickboone1]

I've been shaving with a straight for around 2 years and don't think I could answer any of those questions.

 

[Wm. T]

As far as honing goes , I haven't figured out the best hones to get yet , I'll get to that in a couple of days .
I'll actually have plenty of time from start of this project as I have plenty to do knife-wise that is going to keep me busy .

But for right now what I'm using is ceramic , then leather with different grits of polish . It seems sharp .. scary sharp . Can't wait to put it to my throat ....

 

[Blix]

As far as honing goes , I haven't figured out the best hones to get yet , I'll get to that in a couple of days .
I'll actually have plenty of time from start of this project as I have plenty to do knife-wise that is going to keep me busy .

But for right now what I'm using is ceramic , then leather with different grits of polish . It seems sharp .. scary sharp . Can't wait to put it to my throat ....

Give it a go. It might still not be sharp enough though. Does it pop hairs on your arm above skin?

 

[paco664]

as far as the grinder goes you need a 8" wheel ... that will be the best "all around" wheel... the 4" will not make the proper radius.... i like you tend towards the larger *(8/8ths +) razors.... i have recently made a

8/8ths fixed
12/8ths fixed *(currently being cut down to 10/8ths and hollow ground instead of being a true wedge **(i hollowed it with a 8" wheel bench grinder)
9/8ths chopper *(currently at the house of trick420 getting a new tux made for it.... it will be beautiful!!)
and last but not least
my new kamisori 19/16ths at its widest and 9/8ths at the tip....

 

[tomjr]

hey partner. i have been honing knives since before high school and i found straight razor honing quite a bit different. we are just trying to give u some sage advice. when i started to hone a razor i was unprepared not for the mechanics of it but the experience of knowing when i was on the right track and not, so with no one to guide me a little i had to take to many wrong tracks. a little guidence is sometimes a good thing even if it is a little hard to swallow. there is a ton of experience here if u will just use it to decide for your self to just heed it. best of luck in all your endeavors.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for you making your own. The problem is how will you know if it right if you're not use to using one.
Much the same as, I wouldn't recommend someone go hunting if they've never shot a gun.

Or building a gun if he has never fired one.

Wm, you got to shave before making a razor! Otherwise, you won't know what sort of razor you want. When you know that, then just make something similar to the one you got good results with. It is okay to copy someone else's work. You don't have to re-invent the wheel on your first time out. Straight razor design and technology matured about 100 years ago.

I think it is more common to use a 6" to 8" wheel for grinding razors. 4" seems pretty small. Maybe for an extra hollow? But that would be tricky anyhow. For your first effort you would probably be best sticking to like a half hollow grind. It wouldn't be as critical. Not as much thin flat area on the blade. You still get the easy honing characteristics of a hollowground blade.

I will be the echo here and repeat that you should send one of your razors out for honing, no matter how many knives you have honed. Of course you can learn to hone. It's not that difficult. But you must have a benchmark to know what sharp IS. I know you think you know, but I think you don't know. You can't know. Pick one of your razors, send it out, and when it comes back, shave with it. Be sure you really truly know how to strop. For your second shave, you must strop, and do a proper job of it, and every shave thereafter. After you have a handle on straight shaving, try honing your own razors. NOT the one you just sent out... that is your benchmark. The other ones.

Knowing how to shave and how to hone are definitely prerequisites to designing and creating your own razor. They will teach you about essential design elements and parameters, and what it takes for a razor to function as a razor. You can probably make something right now that looks "Rilly Kewl", something Conan the Barbarian might lop off heads with, or some Klingon ritual weapon or something, but you won't know how to make it shave or take a true shaving edge.

 

[Wm. T]

All advice will be heeded. Once I get these other razors, I'll decide which one to send out for honing. Thanks guys!

 

[BillEllis]

I can't believe you guys are bullying me into a shave !

I've made dozens of hunting and skinning knives and no one made me kill anything ... !!

I'm honing the J.R.&Son now .. I have a Torrey , Wade & Butcher and a Vom Cleef on the way as well .. all different sizes ...

Glad I'm keeping my goatee ..

Here's the skinny, Wm. First and foremost, you cannot compare making knives and making razors. It's like drawing a parallel between softball and baseball. To put it in a perspective you may relate to, allow me to guess that there are thousands of knifemakers in the US, no? Do you not think that these knifemakers would be jumping on the straight razor market if it were such an easy transition? They haven't and they won't.

Once a blade edge has to be ground to a consistent thickness of around .009 or less, things change. Most knifemakers do not, or cannot, deal with these tolerances without trashing the blades they are working on. There are only a handful of makers who do a good job at it. I applaud your enthusiasm, and I hope you make it in this narrow ledge of craftsmanship, but I agree with the consensus that you must know a straight before you can make a good one. And believe me, you won't sell more than two or three if you do not know how to make it shave worthy. Word would spread of that shortcoming faster than gas follows a pot of beans.

Rather than answer all the questions you had individually, let me shorten it all and tell you to get a good razor that you can model your project from. Just take all the measurements from the good razor and if you change dimensions, do them proportionally. Put up a pic of one of your knives and I can give you an estimate on how long it will take for you to hoe your row. While I won't discourage you needlessly, I also won't blow smoke just to enhance your self esteem.

 

[Wm. T]

Thank you Mr. Ellis for such sage advice ..

Once I get proficient at posting pics I'll put a few up .. But just so you all know , I've been making knives since 89' , I've made a few ..

I know about the grinding to just a few thousanths , as I got into kitchen knives a while back . Our own Illustrious Jim took me under his wing a bit and gave me a years worth of info in a day . He's one of the reasons I came here - you Mr. Ellis , are another .

I am ready to learn and take direction .. I just bought 4 very different Straights and am going to have them honed professionally .
Then I am going to shave with them . ...

I can't stop the creative process , so I've draw up a few and am going to see how the feel in wood before I go to the steels ..

Thank you all , Bill

 

[Kentos]

I look forward to seeing your works in progress Mr.T . The process of creating razors always fascinates me to no end.

 

[ouch]

Bill Ellis is the E. F. Hutton of straight razor advice.


Good luck with your project, Wm.

 

[PapaFish]

1) The distance from the Shoulder to Pivot hole - the Shank ? Min/Max ? What's normal and accepted ? 2) Pivot hole . Height from Edge/Spine ? Where is is nomally measured from and again - what is normal ? 3) The Tang - length , curve/point what direction , function ? 4) Thickness at Spine - are they always so thick ? 5) Radius of Grind - What is a good wheel to start with ?

I will start by saying that I have never made a razor, I have only read how others have done it, so take my answers with a grain of salt... Blades are typically 3" or so long, but can be longer or shorter to fit personal preferences. The edge can be STRAIGHT or quite curved (smiling). 1) Something like 2" from shoulder to pivot hole. Thickness of the grip (and shape of the grip) can vary widely. Thumb notches, double thumb notches, jimps... 2) Just center the pivot hole in the grip, 1/16" is typical for the brass pins, so a 1/16" hole (maybe a bit bigger) should do fine. 3) Tang is typically about 1" to 1-1/4", but can be longer (monkeytail) or shorter (stubtail) to fit personal preference. There are as many curves and shapes as you might guess. 4) Thickness of spine is roughly 1/4 that of the width of the blade, so an 8/8 razor (1") would need something like a 1/4" thick spine. More narrow blades have thinner splines. What you are trying to do is allow the user to hone the blade flat on the hone, and achieve about a 15 degree angle doing so. 5) Start out big. Especially if you are planning on doing a big 8/8 or so razor, you will need a big wheel. I know one guy used a 14" wheel to make his first run of razors. Remember, if you start with a 14" and don't like it, you can go to an 8" (or 8" to 6", etc), going the other way probably means starting over. With that said, I also know of a guy that made a razor using a Dremel and it's attachments, so given enough time and artistry, anything is possible. You are also going to have to consider tempering the steel. Heating and quenching will be needed to provide a hard enough steel for shaving. BUT if you get it too hard, it will be too brittle for shaving. As far as honing is concerned, I would recommend honing on your own AND getting someone to hone one up for you. These don't have to be razors you make, but they should be razors of a known good quality. You can even just buy a shave ready straight off the BST or from WhippedDog.com so you can know what you should be looking for. Shave with both a razor you honed, and the shave ready razor, that way you can slowly but surely figure out what you are doing wrong (ie. don't count on getting it right the first time). Have fun! I am interested in seeing what you come up with once the razor gets made.