No, but if one makes a misleading blanket statement, it would be a reasonable expectation to receive constructive criticism by those who perhaps have real world knowledge of any issue.
5.56/.223 home defense ammo suggestions
- Thread starter Claudel Xerxes
- Start date
No, but if one makes a misleading blanket statement, it would be a reasonable expectation to receive constructive criticism by those who perhaps have real world knowledge of any issue.
Yeah, I only posted links I saw that had "In Stock." Many of those that had a rain check do sell to civilians. It's a very popular and highly sought after brand. Have also read, Hornady is discontinuing the "FPD?"
This is the first I've heard.
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When did simple and respectful counter opinion, become roasting? I would also respectfully counter the bolded? LEO's nor Military, regardless of their skill or training, can dictate their will over a .556/.223 bullet making it any "less penetrative" of whatever barrier it impacts, anymore then an untrained civilian can make the impact "more penetrative."
No intention or desire to roast you good sir, just simply disagreeing with you is all. Respectfully of course.
I will say, any and all ammunition, regardless of it's intended design to give adequate penetration or to not be, overly penetrative, can,will and have, been both or either. There are no guarantee's for or against any projectile, to always do what they say it will do, or not do.
Only calculated percentages, that a particular design will, along with it's weight and velocities, to do consistently, what it's designers and thorough testing, say it will do.
However, I do believe, most civilians who do choose to defend themselves and those they love from harmful/criminal intent with a firearm, regardless of the caliber or type of firearm they choose, do have the capacity for common sense, to think about what is beyond the target they are shooting at, without advanced LE or Military training.
But at the same time, I would still suggest, if an armed bandit enters your home and it is your responsibility to protect your family from that armed bandit; If that bandit, raises their weapon to shoot you? it would be in your families best interest, for you to shoot that bandit, "before" that bandit shoots you.
Regardless of where that bandit is standing; or even, what is beyond that bandit on the other side of the wall.
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I am seeing comments about comparing "highly trained LEO and military" with Joe homeowner. You see rather frequently on the news where LEO have fired multiple, sometimes a lot of shots, with only a rather few hits, where did all those misses go. There have been cell phone videos that indicate that most of the shots were rather wild. I was military, 10 years active and 7 in active reserve and my "training" was more exposure than training for small arms.
I had grown up shooting so could handle rifles, handguns and shotguns better than most, but certainly not expert in anything. I had friends who were LEO that were not good at shooting and only considered a firearm a tool of their trade and only trained for minimum competency requirements.
I am fortunate to live an area of the country where firearms are common, owners are not looked down on, and actually LEO's are in favor of concealed carry( open is legal here, but I think it is foolish). As I have gotten older and for a long time now have thought of the idea of over penetration. All of the homes in our area are of brick veneer construction but windows are still glass. Even though yards are rather larger 1-3 acres some houses across the streets are fairly close 150-200 feet . As a result I keep a handgun on the nightstand, and a 20 ga pump shotgun with large shot, not buckshot, cannot remember the exact size, but something to limit range and possibility of penetration. I feel at close range it will be deadly, and if I have to stop a thief, and it will be from breaking and entering, it will certainly mark him for LEO to apprehend later, thinking anyone with a butt full of goose shot will wind up in an ER rather quickly
I had grown up shooting so could handle rifles, handguns and shotguns better than most, but certainly not expert in anything. I had friends who were LEO that were not good at shooting and only considered a firearm a tool of their trade and only trained for minimum competency requirements.
I am fortunate to live an area of the country where firearms are common, owners are not looked down on, and actually LEO's are in favor of concealed carry( open is legal here, but I think it is foolish). As I have gotten older and for a long time now have thought of the idea of over penetration. All of the homes in our area are of brick veneer construction but windows are still glass. Even though yards are rather larger 1-3 acres some houses across the streets are fairly close 150-200 feet . As a result I keep a handgun on the nightstand, and a 20 ga pump shotgun with large shot, not buckshot, cannot remember the exact size, but something to limit range and possibility of penetration. I feel at close range it will be deadly, and if I have to stop a thief, and it will be from breaking and entering, it will certainly mark him for LEO to apprehend later, thinking anyone with a butt full of goose shot will wind up in an ER rather quickly
Agreed 100%. Great post!
Well, that was an eye-opener! (And a waste of meat. Shoulda used, hm, nevermind)
No.8, too. #6 or surely 4 you might expect to penetrate ... in fact 4 is pretty respectable on "meat."
Buck = no surprises. Goes through much if not all.
I think the question in question
then becomes household material penetration, and as with all great questions, "that depends." Masonry? Wallboard? Brick? Block? Glass?AA
Am I the only one who got hungry after watching those videos? 
I personally roll my own, currently use 22.5 gr of IMR4895 pushing a 69gr Nosler CC and accuracy is fairly decent with my Spikes Tactile 16” bbl but not sure I would use it on the inside of my home so I have a Mossberg 500 with #4 shot and also keep a double stack 9mm loaded with 4.2 gr of TG pushing a 124 Hornady Critical Defense JHP
I think the mistake many make when we discuss topics of this nature is, they make blanket statements of certain calibers "being good or bad" for home defense or other purposes, without considering all the different and many variables that can go into that topic. For instance,
First guy says, ".556 is great for home defense." Now this guy, is probably thinking, a lightweight, high velocity hollow point or frangible bullet, that is specifically designed for home defense. The only problem is, he didn't state any of these variables in his statement.
Second guy comes along and see's this; and says, "No, it's not good for home defense, I have seen a .556 go thru a 2x8 wooden beam easily!" Now, he is making the exact same mistake the first guy is, because he failed to articulate, the bullet he saw go thru that 2x8 beam, was an SS109 armor piercing bullet, or some other, slower velocity 76 grain slug with a solid copper jacket and hardened core, that is specifically designed to penetrate thru barriers.
Both guys are absolutely correct in their statements, but both are absolutely disagreeing with the others true statements, because they have failed to articulate or consider, all the intangible variables of that exact same round.
So, in other words, "what we have here, is a failure to communicate." (said with the voice from the warden in the movie "Cool Hand Luke")
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kelbro
Alfred Spatchcock
Inside my house, I believe that #8 Dove loads from my barely legal 12ga. will stop anything that I need to stop.
The number of times I've seen #8 fail to bring down doves disinclines me from it's use on anything larger. That said, you run what ya brung, and at contact distance it's like firing a cheese grater.
Its a lot easier for a Dove to fly through a pattern at 30 yards than it is a man at 15 feet.
I think the mistake many make when we discuss topics of this nature is, they make blanket statements of certain calibers "being good or bad" for home defense or other purposes, without considering all the different and many variables that can go into that topic. For instance,
First guy says, ".556 is great for home defense." Now this guy, is probably thinking, a lightweight, high velocity hollow point or frangible bullet, that is specifically designed for home defense. The only problem is, he didn't state any of these variables in his statement.
Second guy comes along and see's this; and says, "No, it's not good for home defense, I have seen a .556 go thru a 2x8 wooden beam easily!" Now, he is making the exact same mistake the first guy is, because he failed to articulate, the bullet he saw go thru that 2x8 beam, was an SS109 armor piercing bullet, or some other, slower velocity 76 grain slug with a solid copper jacket and hardened core, that is specifically designed to penetrate thru barriers.
Both guys are absolutely correct in their statements, but both are absolutely disagreeing with the others true statements, because they have failed to articulate or consider, all the intangible variables of that exact same round.
So, in other words, "what we have here, is a failure to communicate." (said with the voice from the warden in the movie "Cool Hand Luke")
Very well said and I love that movie
kelbro
Alfred Spatchcock
There are definitely more potent loads but I wouldn't stand in front of it!
Test out some loads and get back to us.
0 or 00 Buck, #4, and #8 through 5/8" drywall and ballistic gelatin.
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Even #8 shot at short range can cause over penetration problems. Depending on choke, barrel length and distance to target it can be too much of a good thing. My little 20g at 10 feet has a pattern the size of a fist.
My little 20, Lucy Lu(para) is barely legal too. 1 1/2"s of barrel length is what makes it legal here.
I have a friend in the US whos son is a Marine. After a while going door to door clearing houses his choice of weapon changed.
He started carrying this, then swapped to a 12g pump.
Lol'd @ barely legal 12ga.
My little 20, Lucy Lu(para) is barely legal too. 1 1/2"s of barrel length is what makes it legal here.
I have a friend in the US whos son is a Marine. After a while going door to door clearing houses his choice of weapon changed.
He started carrying this, then swapped to a 12g pump.
At close range like that any size shot column is going to hit a lot like a slug. and go right through drywall, and probably any exterior siding except for brick. Personally I would hate to be on the receiving end of #8 at 40-50 yards, it would hurt. I can remember seeing plastic wads from my little .410 Marlin fly out to nearly that distance, and would not care to be on the receiving end of a wad. Neither would be fatal at that range but certainly uncomfortable.
I guess there has not been any testing and results made public on "all" the combinations of calibers, shotgun loads ect. There are just too many variables for that to be practical, what kind of wall, did shot or bullet strike straight on or at an angle, did it hit a stud, bullet weight, caliber, velocity, shot size, velocity, weight of charge, distance from wall when fired ect, ect, ect, on and on. Have fun with all our assumptions. Some of our LEO and military have seen more of these results than virtually all the rest of us. I have seen end result of some in the ER, usually not pretty.
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