for now both 1911s are .45 cal but thier soon to be acquired big brother will be in 10mm
.45 acp or 9mm in a 1911.
- Thread starter BigFoot
- Start date
I have one of the 1-in-150 Dan Wesson Razorback autos (in 10mm Automatic, of course). This pistol was "bespoke" for me in 1990.
You can keep the .45 Auto. I'll take my 10mm Auto and shoot rings around either the 9mm or .45 ACP. (I have been shooting the cartridge since 1991, thank you very much). I have four other handguns chambered for the 10, so I'm really attached to the round.
You can keep the .45 Auto. I'll take my 10mm Auto and shoot rings around either the 9mm or .45 ACP. (I have been shooting the cartridge since 1991, thank you very much). I have four other handguns chambered for the 10, so I'm really attached to the round.
I have a few 1911s. Most are in .45, but two are in 38 Super. That being said and in defiance of JMB's admonition, one of those two is a double stack. I have 38 Super, 9X23, 9mm, and .22 TCM barrels for it. Yes, each barrel has its own fitted bushing. The outrageous part of this 'swap barrel' 1911 is that all these cartridges run just fine with the same magazines.
I have built a couple of BBQ guns on Rock Island / Armscor pistols and while they are pretty good looking now, it took an outrageous amount of work to get them that way.
In my experience, Armscor (Rock Island or Citadel. Same gun, different importers) makes good, serviceable handguns to be sold at entry level pricing. Yes, you can invest the time and money to make one in to a BBQ gun with top drawer innards, but it isn't going to be cheap. By the time I was done with mine, I had the price of a Dan Wesson or possibly a Les Baer in each of them. I did it for the joy of the project, not to save money.
If the whole 9mm thing bothers you, buy the 9 and fit a 38 Super barrel to it. I run nothing but 38 Super Comp brass (same head size as the 9, just longer) in both my Supers. I've yet to see a feeding issue. Nines are cheap to shoot and offer nearly no recoil in a full size 1911. If you want to hit something a bit harder, you can see some serious gains handloading the Super. N105 under a 124 grain hollow point will net you 1,500 fps or so out of a five inch gun. That level of performance isn't easy to dismiss. With a fully supported chamber, even Accurate #7 can be pushed nearly that hard.
In my opinion, there is something classy about a BBQ gun in 38 Super. I love mine. Being able to convert it to 9mm in under a minute is just that much sweeter.
Afterthought: A switch barrel 10mm / 40 S&W should be easy in a 1911. Might take some experimentation with recoil springs, but it should be doable.
Bill.
I have built a couple of BBQ guns on Rock Island / Armscor pistols and while they are pretty good looking now, it took an outrageous amount of work to get them that way.
In my experience, Armscor (Rock Island or Citadel. Same gun, different importers) makes good, serviceable handguns to be sold at entry level pricing. Yes, you can invest the time and money to make one in to a BBQ gun with top drawer innards, but it isn't going to be cheap. By the time I was done with mine, I had the price of a Dan Wesson or possibly a Les Baer in each of them. I did it for the joy of the project, not to save money.
If the whole 9mm thing bothers you, buy the 9 and fit a 38 Super barrel to it. I run nothing but 38 Super Comp brass (same head size as the 9, just longer) in both my Supers. I've yet to see a feeding issue. Nines are cheap to shoot and offer nearly no recoil in a full size 1911. If you want to hit something a bit harder, you can see some serious gains handloading the Super. N105 under a 124 grain hollow point will net you 1,500 fps or so out of a five inch gun. That level of performance isn't easy to dismiss. With a fully supported chamber, even Accurate #7 can be pushed nearly that hard.
In my opinion, there is something classy about a BBQ gun in 38 Super. I love mine. Being able to convert it to 9mm in under a minute is just that much sweeter.
Afterthought: A switch barrel 10mm / 40 S&W should be easy in a 1911. Might take some experimentation with recoil springs, but it should be doable.
Bill.
^ You just described my dream 1911!
I just finished a 4.25" (Commander size) 1911 build on a Para frame. It is in .45 ACP. I have a second frame and am planning on building it in to a 38 Super. Why? For no other reason than I do not own a Commander size 1911 chambered in 38 Super. . . yet. Both frames were cut for a Para/Clark ramped barrel, so there is no issue with feed ramp geometry.
By the way, this type of work is nothing like building a Glock clone from an 80% lower. It takes some very special tooling and has a steep/expensive learning curve. I don't own a mill or a lathe, so everything is done by hand.
Perhaps I will do a 10/40 at some point in the future.
Bill.
By the way, this type of work is nothing like building a Glock clone from an 80% lower. It takes some very special tooling and has a steep/expensive learning curve. I don't own a mill or a lathe, so everything is done by hand.
Perhaps I will do a 10/40 at some point in the future.
Bill.
Correction: That was 2009.
Indeed! I try to tell folks, if you're going to be serious about the 1911, you will only be serious about the 1911. Mass-production does mean you can frequently (though certainly not always, or even most of the time) plug-n-play, but doing that also means that the one doing the doing will be in a state of consternation and confusion when it doesn't function properly, if you haven't spent money in education and tooling. Most competent smiths also have punitive pricing for fixing Eddie's Pimptastic Home-Gunsmithing Project...
Indeed! I try to tell folks, if you're going to be serious about the 1911, you will only be serious about the 1911. Mass-production does mean you can frequently (though certainly not always, or even most of the time) plug-n-play, but doing that also means that the one doing the doing will be in a state of consternation and confusion when it doesn't function properly, if you haven't spent money in education and tooling. Most competent smiths also have punitive pricing for fixing Eddie's Pimptastic Home-Gunsmithing Project...
Well said Rob!!
There is no such thing as a free education, especially when it comes to working on the 1911.
As to punitive pricing for correcting Bubba's improvements; that is as it should be.
I paid my dues in hard earned dollars, study, sweat, and scrapped parts. I still foist mayhem and destruction on a poor, unsuspecting part now and then.
But. . .
When it all comes together with a 2.5 lb crisp trigger in a tack driving pistol, I know in my heart it was all worth it.
Bill.
- Thread starter
- #49
I am falling in love with the 1911. I hope some day I will develop the skill to build one.
I started my 1911 education by learning how to fit thumb safeties. Yes, they have to be fit. A file usually does the job as long as you know where to file, why, and when to stop. If you don't know these things, you will get to buy another new thumb safety and start all over again (as I did). Since I don't buy junk parts, this wasn't cheap.
Next, was trigger jobs. Ed Brown sear jig, synthetic sear stones, and a trigger track stone (all from Brownell's). I already had feeler gauges and a jeweler's loupe. This learning experience was also expensive, but worth it. I have a ziploc bag of trashed hammers and sears to remind me of my own folly and ineptitude.
Various grades of lapping compound, a "B" grade granite table, various stones and files, sandpaper, including diamond lapping film, hammer to sear fit jig, trigger bow mandrel, and other supplies (including diamond paste), were then acquired to ease finishing jobs.
I learned how to properly fit firing pin stops and eventually extractors. The extractors required tooling to correctly set pressure on the case head.
Various reamers for cleaning up pin holes. Plunger tube staking tool.
Various fine cut Italian files that cost $60+ each.
Lots of measuring equipment. Lots of micrometers (1" to 6"), tubing, inside, outside, depth, groove, etc. Vernier protractor, machinist square, Mitutoyo digital calipers (6 and 8 inch), and various other bits and bobs. None of this was cheap.
Ed Brown bobtail jig was also purchased and I have done three or four bobtails at this point.
Finally and after a lot of self-convincing, I decided to learn how to install hard fit barrels and headspace them. A lug file, lower lug cutter, chamber reamers (.45 and Super) and two sets of headspace gauges were procured. I began this phase of my education with great trepidation, as a good hard fit barrel usually costs over $200. Never mind the several hundred dollars worth of tooling (I don't really want to know what I invested in barrel tooling). I botched the second barrel I tried to fit. Fortunately, I learned from my mistakes and haven't trashed one since.
This has been a wonderful and amazing pursuit. When one of my pistols break or cease to function properly, I can fix it. I can even refinish them, including hot bluing. This pleases me immensely.
For me, the joy is in knowing how to do these jobs, as well as having the skills and tooling to do them. It doesn't matter that I could have paid a real smith to do it and saved a lot of money. That is irrelevant. My guns put a smile on my face because there is a little bit of me in every one of them.
Bill.
Next, was trigger jobs. Ed Brown sear jig, synthetic sear stones, and a trigger track stone (all from Brownell's). I already had feeler gauges and a jeweler's loupe. This learning experience was also expensive, but worth it. I have a ziploc bag of trashed hammers and sears to remind me of my own folly and ineptitude.
Various grades of lapping compound, a "B" grade granite table, various stones and files, sandpaper, including diamond lapping film, hammer to sear fit jig, trigger bow mandrel, and other supplies (including diamond paste), were then acquired to ease finishing jobs.
I learned how to properly fit firing pin stops and eventually extractors. The extractors required tooling to correctly set pressure on the case head.
Various reamers for cleaning up pin holes. Plunger tube staking tool.
Various fine cut Italian files that cost $60+ each.
Lots of measuring equipment. Lots of micrometers (1" to 6"), tubing, inside, outside, depth, groove, etc. Vernier protractor, machinist square, Mitutoyo digital calipers (6 and 8 inch), and various other bits and bobs. None of this was cheap.
Ed Brown bobtail jig was also purchased and I have done three or four bobtails at this point.
Finally and after a lot of self-convincing, I decided to learn how to install hard fit barrels and headspace them. A lug file, lower lug cutter, chamber reamers (.45 and Super) and two sets of headspace gauges were procured. I began this phase of my education with great trepidation, as a good hard fit barrel usually costs over $200. Never mind the several hundred dollars worth of tooling (I don't really want to know what I invested in barrel tooling). I botched the second barrel I tried to fit. Fortunately, I learned from my mistakes and haven't trashed one since.
This has been a wonderful and amazing pursuit. When one of my pistols break or cease to function properly, I can fix it. I can even refinish them, including hot bluing. This pleases me immensely.
For me, the joy is in knowing how to do these jobs, as well as having the skills and tooling to do them. It doesn't matter that I could have paid a real smith to do it and saved a lot of money. That is irrelevant. My guns put a smile on my face because there is a little bit of me in every one of them.
Bill.
Just Wow! Fascinating and impressive!
I've been guilty of some 1911 butchery. I did my own Ed Brown beavertail safety and even though I used a jig, I took off too much metal from the "ears" of the frame. The safety works fine but there is an ugly gap. I tried my hand at hand checkering of the front strap on the same gun, not too pretty.
Excellent!!
You have my respect Sir.
This is one of the very few ways to acquire skill and education and I salute anyone with the drive and courage to do it.
It may not be too pretty but it is YOURS. I am never embarrassed to show my pistols to anyone, even the ones that aren't quite perfect.
Kudos!!
Bill.
Same here when I attempted to learn gunsmiting during the 1990s and Kuhnhausen's book was, what I considered, the ultimate and only text. Well, there are things that weren't printed then that I now see in subsequent editions. I was thirty-nine then and now pushing sixty-nine and I'll pay to have work done on my firearms. No more time to learn as I want to go outside and play.
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Same here, I have the Kuhnhausen books as well.
I have never shot a 1911 in 9mm but would like to give it a try. Until then, not sure.
Which is why...
"Hey, Ed! (Sgt. in the Property Room) The dang stapler's stuck! Hand me something to whack it with..."
Ed Brown...
or Glock...?
My first pistol was a 45 so I'm partial to that still to this day.
My late father now deceased, was a CPO who joined in 1941 at age 16. He was a tough bastard and in those days not even a lieutenant could give a CPO an order. It was a love hate between me and him, always shouting orders at me and he always thought he was still in the Navy long after his retirement from the military. But I was never so proud of him until after he perused my Colt 1911, he stated that it was the same weapon he wore when guarding and standing watch on his Navy ship. A real Navy ship. He also pitch baseball for THE U.S. Navy and not just a Navy team and was offered a contract with the minors back in the day.
