.40: Short & Weak, or just right?

[Esox]

I had a Taurus PT101 with adjustable sights in polished stainless in .40S&W. Nice handgun and more than accurate enough. I reloaded for it, full house and plinking loads. I never had a single failure to feed, even with my light load of 4 grains Bullseye.

A solid, robust and reliable gun. I traded it to a friend of mine for an old Sistema Colt .45. He shot IPSC with that Taurus and my holster rig for two years without any issues. He's since moved back to the 1911 .45 though.

The nicest and most accurate little auto in .40S&W I've yet shot however is the Glock 27, and I'm not a Glock fan.

 

[KW Driver]

My 23 Gen 3 is my truck gun now. 19MOS/43 carries. My reloads are all fulllsized mags (+2s for the 43 if they’re not in the 43, cover dependent).

I switched to 9s for faster follow ups, training ammo cost, commonality of available restocks if it ever got to that. I almost rebarreled my 23, but the19MOS seemed like a better, easy upgrade.

A few hundred rounds into the day, .40 is snappier and more quickly fatiguing than 9 too, in essentially identical weapon platforms.

 

[OkieStubble]

My 23 Gen 3 is my truck gun now. 19MOS/43 carries. My reloads are all fulllsized mags (+2s for the 43 if they’re not in the 43, cover dependent).

I switched to 9s for faster follow ups, training ammo cost, commonality of available restocks if it ever got to that. I almost rebarreled my 23, but the19MOS seemed like a better, easy upgrade.

A few hundred rounds into the day, .40 is snappier and more quickly fatiguing than 9 too, in essentially identical weapon platforms.

I also have a Gen3 23. It is the best Gen for the G23 and the .40 platform imo. I won't be giving it up anytime soon.

 

[jkingrph]

Had I not purchased a Colt Delta Gold Cup before the .40 came out I would probably have gone that route. I am happy with my 10mm and see no need to change.

 

[dojpros]

I shoot .40 cal in a G35 because that is what most of my training partners/agencies have shot. Many are going back to 9mm given: cost, "equal" effectiveness, wear/tear on the gun, wear/tear on the shooter and training advantages when dealing with challenged shooters.

If I had to feed and water my own gun and lived in a std capacity state, I would carry a 9mm (presently a Glock 34 or 19) and drive on. If I was in a limited capacity state, I suspect I would pivot back to a 1911.

 

[Acmemfg]

.40 S&W may not be all that great.
A .40 S&W (SIG P229 if I recall) was the weapon deployed during the Ferguson, MO. shooting.
Suspect was hit 6 times in the front.
All shots were at extremely close range.
Such data does not do well to support the claims of a .40 S&W being all that effective.
I own one .40 S&W
I own nine 9mm, four .45...a few others in different calibers.
The .40 S&W seldom if ever leaves the house.
It's a nice enough pistol; my opinion is that there are others which are much nicer.

 

[simon1]

.40 S&W may not be all that great.
A .40 S&W (SIG P229 if I recall) was the weapon deployed during the Ferguson, MO. shooting.
Suspect was hit 6 times in the front.
All shots were at extremely close range.
Such data does not do well to support the claims of a .40 S&W being all that effective.

Yes, but the same can be said of several incidents that used different calibers.

1986 FBI Miami shootout - Wikipedia

Emmett Dalton Biography ¦ Oct. 5-10, 1892

Cole Younger Never Got The Lead Out

 

[catchacoolbreeze]

I enjoy shooting 9mm much more. My follow-up shots are noticeably faster (on timer) and more accurate. With modern 9mm defensive loadings like Federal HST or Speer Gold Dot, You are good to go. If I only could shoot ball ammo - I would probably chose a .45 over a .40, but in that situation, I could see an argument for .40 as well. If I was worried about large beasts of prey in the backcountry and couldn't take a long gun - I would jump up to 10mm

 

[OkieStubble]

Yes, but the same can be said of several incidents that used different calibers.

1986 FBI Miami shootout - Wikipedia

Emmett Dalton Biography ¦ Oct. 5-10, 1892

Cole Younger Never Got The Lead Out

The .45 hits hard.

The 9mm hits fast.

The .40 hits hard and fast.

 

[Acmemfg]

Never to be overlooked is the prime directive...shot placement.
If and when deployed properly, a .25 can be more effective than a .454 Casull deployed not so properly.

 

[nortac]

A dynamic target, even at close range, can be hard to hit consistently. I don't think the caliber nor the gun is at fault. I never had any accuracy issues with my P229 in .40 S&W as long as I did my part!
A drug fueled perp may not immediately "respond appropriately" when hit with any caliber that does not involve a CNS hit.

 

[shoelessjoe]

I prefer it when on duty. Bigger like the .45, but faster like the 9mm. Best of both worlds. Something comforting about 165 grain Gold Dot moving at 1200 feet per second. Yes, a 9mm recoils less and is "more" controllable then the .40. But a .22 is "more" controllable than the 9mm. And the .40 is "more" controllable then a .44 Magnum, so on and so on. Glock 23 on duty, Glock 19 or 43X off duty.

OkieStubble, IMO, your post had the makings of a thread-ender & yet...
With the possible exception of a personal relationship with Christ, everything in this life has its trade-offs ... firearms & specific calibers included. As a ten-year-old I had the misfortune of witnessing someone shoot another person deader than last year’s bird nest ... with a single shot from a .22 revolver.

 

[Ad Astra]

The .45 hits hard.

The 9mm hits fast.

The .40 hits hard and fast.

Cannot argue with that!

I have to believe ALL of this is true. Yes, 9mm has faster follow-up shots than .40 - but would not .40 have faster follow-up than 10mm?

AA

 

[KW Driver]

Cannot argue with that!

I have to believe ALL of this is true. Yes, 9mm has faster follow-up shots than .40 - but would not .40 have faster follow-up than 10mm?

AA

out of the same weapon? I can't see how it wouldn't. .40 in a subcompac/compact vs a full sized/target 10, even by the same maker? probably/maybe not. but I'd rather put a 10 than a .40 into a charging bear myself

 

[Ad Astra]

out of the same weapon? I can't see how it wouldn't. .40 in a subcompac/compact vs a full sized/target 10, even by the same maker? probably/maybe not. but I'd rather put a 10 than a .40 into a charging bear myself

.40 is interesting, by any account. The world could use more compromise.

What's the definition of compromise? Something like "an arrangement that no-one is completely happy with."

Personally, I shoot much more .38 Spl. than. 357 Mag.


AA

 

[Lakeshirt]

I also have a Gen3 23. It is the best Gen for the G23 and the .40 platform imo. I won't be giving it up anytime soon.

Agree with this. I also have a Gen 3 23 in a Bianchi Black Widow.

 

[simon1]

The .45 hits hard.

The 9mm hits fast.

The .40 hits hard and fast.

Like they say...a 9 mm may expand, but a .40 or .45 will never shrink.

I can't find the recoil spring tuning kit for my 1911, so I just ordered another one from Wolff. Damn I must be getting old if the 24 lb. one that is in it is getting hard to manipulate.

 

[ackvil]

This is true, but not by much in some guns. My Glock 19 carries 15+1 9mm and my Glock 23 carries 13+1 in .40.

Right. I don't see any significance difference in recoil between the two. Do you?

 

[Bhugo]

When I first started looking at pistols beyond revolvers, I chose a 9 because of the recoil advantage. Since I’m not a LEO, the compactness and light recoil were nice. Then a full size 9 with a 18 rnd capacity was next. I love them both. I thought about a 40, but then said why not just go 10mm. It’ll be a range gun and maybe hunting, but I have an old SandW 29 44mag for that. So my foray into larger auto calibers will probably be a nice 10mm. Maybe engraved just to make it really expensive with some classy leather. I can’t see a 40 filling that niche. The 40 has always seemed like a duty gun to me and not an easy to conceal caliber. Open carry in the woods maybe? Whatever floats your boat is what you should do, but I have always felt it was somewhat redundant and less convenient for my concealed carry needs. Heck, I’m carrying a lcp ii half the year. Then again, it looks like a really cool round and I may change my mind by next week!

 

[OkieStubble]

Right. I don't see any significance difference in recoil between the two. Do you?

I agree with you completely Jim. There are differences in the controllability and handling between the 9mm and .40. However, the question is: For who? And to what degree? For the novice? Or the average concealed permit holder? Who, while may have owned a firearm for security of the home or who have even carried concealed for years, other then occasionally going to the range and/or while knowledgeable of the physical operations of the firearms they own, may not have honed their skill in shooting with various calibers.

Enthusiasts such as yourself and I, the gap in differences in calibers become quite smaller, even to the point where like you, I don't notice any significant difference, between the 9mm and .40 that would dictate a different outcome in a self-defense or gunfight application. And while the designs and metallurgies of modern pistol ammunition has closed the gaps for the, 9mm, .40 and .45.


However, after 22 years working in a major metropolitan city, my experience has shown me, that while the ballistic science of chrono's, FBI ballistic gelatin behind various clothing and plywood barriers, and such, is all good science. In my personal experience, it doesn't always translate into real world performance. I have seen many gsw's in my time, anywhere from .22 to .44 Magnum and everything in between including shotguns.

In my experience with real world shootings, the bigger AND faster the bullet? The worse the outcome. IMO, the general conclusion and absolute solution of being negatively averse to the differences in recoil of various and effective calibers is more training, not smaller bullets.

The reality is, that most of the writers in the interesting and fascinating gun rags we read, who wax eloquent and mesmerizing articles about the science of velocities, terminal performance, penetration and travel depths, have never heard a shot fired in anger, or seen someone expire, gurgling in their own blood.