2020 Shave Purchase Sabbatical - Those Daring Men with their Jaunty Razors & Jalopies

[Atlantic59]

That is the exact reference I made in post #1755 and it referred to #GaryTHa, who was in the sabbatical at that time, buying blades pre-start and offering a PIF only for other participants in the sabbatical ; rule 12... PIF purchases for others. Both parties were in the sabbatical.
I keep iterating the theme of the sabbatical is that you are looking to reduce your shave items and you are allowed to declare one exception at the start.
You cannot be bypassing rule 5 by entering PIFs which is an intention to solicit gifts, effectively making it a few more exceptions and no restraint. Begs the question why join the sabbatical if that is the intention.

Incorrect. Pepin ruled that @It's Hedley did not go out by entering and winning a PIF sponsered by @GaryTha -- look again. In addition to this specific case, there were several other PIFs that were sponsored for and won by restraint participants during the first several months. There were also people who entered PIFs sponsored elsewhere in B&B and they were not forced to go out.

It may seem contradictory to some, but those are the rules as they have been generally applied so far. The intent of the restraint seems to be more about not spending money on supplies for yourself, than it is about reducing your stockpile, necessarily.

 

[Invicta]

Incorrect. Pepin ruled that @It's Hedley did not go out by entering and winning a PIF sponsered by @GaryTha -- look again. In addition to this specific case, there were several other PIFs that were sponsored for and won by restraint participants during the first several months. There were also people who entered PIFs sponsored elsewhere in B&B and they were not forced to go out.

It may seem contradictory to some, but those are the rules as they have been generally applied so far. The intent of the restraint seems to be more about not spending money on supplies for yourself, than it is about reducing your stockpile, necessarily.

We are still talking about the same case I mentioned in post #1755; both in the sabbatical at the time and @Pepin ruled that they were still in on that occasion.
Which are these other cases you refer to?
Other general PIFs which are entered are soliciting gifts otherwise you are just adding exceptions which is not the intention of rule 5 and the declaration of just one exception; quite critical elements of the sabbatical.

 

[Atlantic59]

We are still talking about the same case I mentioned in post #1755; both in the sabbatical at the time and @Pepin ruled that they were still in on that occasion.
Which are these other cases you refer to?
Other general PIFs which are entered are soliciting gifts otherwise you are just adding exceptions which is not the intention of rule 5 and the declaration of just one exception; quite critical elements of the sabbatical.

Since you accept that both PIF sponsor and participants were ruled as still in on that occasion, you accept that @Pepin allowed PIFs. Further examples are not going to change that.

PIFs are games or contests in which participants have a chance to win. You are the one insisting that PIFs are gifts but that was clearly not @Pepin 's interpretation. It was not my interpretation, nor many other people's interpretation, based on precedent and tradition.

An example of soliciting a gift would be sending a PM to another member asking for a soap because you are running short. Note that you could still trade for it without going out.

Just for fun (which I thought was the point), here are a few more PIFs from January:

2020 Shave Purchase Sabbatical - Those Daring Men with their Jaunty Razors & Jalopies

I was cleaning out my shaving stuff after a move and found the plastic Gillette Super Click with the Gillette Super Thin Blade that I got for free as some random add on when I got some blade samples a few years ago. I decided it would be fun to try it out expecting a terrible shave. I have yet...

www.badgerandblade.com

2020 Shave Purchase Sabbatical - Those Daring Men with their Jaunty Razors & Jalopies

We drivers in the Circle of Commitment have made a solemn promise to each other to survive through the first quarter check-in. In return, we will have the opportunity to win some PIF's as well as eternal gratitude from the other drivers. Here is the rub. If ANYONE drops out, the PIFs stop for...

www.badgerandblade.com

Nobody got thrown out for participating, as far as I know.

 

[Invicta]

Sadly a couple of recently retirements in the last five days. Keep your eyes on the road, there
is another 60% of the race to be completed. Here is the latest position;

 

[Atlantic59]

Wait a minute, there are still open questions on whether @Brian C. and @Jim99 are retired. Don't rule it and make it fait acommpli as a cheap way of winning an argument.

 

[Invicta]

Nobody got thrown out for participating, as far as I know.

Both of those were PIFs offered by sabbatical members to others in the sabbatical, I got no problem with those and they are covered by rule 12; PIFs for others. One was already part of the members stockpile and the other was a purchase made in the re-stock period

 

[Invicta]

Wait a minute, there are still open questions on whether @Brian C. and @Jim99 are retired. Don't rule it and make it fait acommpli as a cheap way of winning an argument.

#Brian C spent $5 and accepted his position in post #1730.
I left #Jim99 to confirm his position under rule 13 {see post #1747, please read the last line carefully}. #Jim99 confirmed his position in post #1754.
There is nothing cheap about this and I am disappointed we have lost two more participants before we have completed 40%.

 

[Atlantic59]

Both of those were PIFs offered by sabbatical members to others in the sabbatical, I got no problem with those and they are covered by rule 12; PIFs for others. One was alraedy part of the members stockpile and the other was a purchase made in the re-stock period

It concerns me you seem to be re-interpreting the rules to make new rules of your own. Rule 12 allows a person to buy a product to sponsor a PIF. It does not apply to a person who signs up for a PIF. If a person signs up for a PIF, it does not matter whether the sponsor is inside or outside the restraint. The rules do not make any such distinction.

Note the point of rule 12: normally, you would be considered out if you spent money.

 

[GaryTha]

Thought I remembered something about PIFs last year. I did a quick search and found this, among other things:
View attachment 1104883

I'd like to amend my answer to this question. Later, I decided the only person who should make rulings was @Pepin. I should have included that in the response.

If a person other than the race director has an opinion, they should clearly state it is an opinion.

By the way, when I made the PIFs, I found it was cheaper to buy the blades on Amazon and send them to the winners than it was to pay postage for the blades I had. That option is clearly in the rules.

There are cases I disagree with. For example, when my brush broke, several people generously offered to PIF me a brush. I think that would have been soliciting a gift, but this sort of thing happens all the time. (I repaired my brush).

I'm still enjoying my 10-year desert island restraint. The only rule is don't buy anything.

 

[Jim99]

Just so I’m clear, the rules are being interpreted in a way that a PIF is the same as a gift? “Gift” is used as a defined term in the rules, but is never actually defined. Gifts are typically given to loved ones, with no expectation of anything in return. A PIF is more akin to a prize, like winning a lottery and getting something the owner did not want. I’m certainly not the PIFer’s loved one, but feel like I won a lottery without expending a penny.

The rules certainly leave much to be desired and if a PIF means you’re out, then it should be clear.

 

[martym]

What happened to you’re out when you say you’re out?

Don’t put too much thought into it. It’s only shaving. Just be honest with yourself. If what happened makes you feel like you’re out; you’re out. If it doesn’t then you are good to go.

Just me thinking out loud.

 

[Jim99]

What happened to you’re out when you say you’re out?

Just me thinking out loud.

Very good point.

 

[KQY61]

Hi,

Well, I don't know as I have my usual Status in these year-long restraints as one of the operators of such. Usually, there are three of us, but I don't recall it being said I was one of those once again.

So, I presume this is going to be considered as One Man's Opinion. The rules regarding a PIF entry is that is allowed. Always has been, at least for the past six years anyway.

Yes, you are Out if you say so, regardless of the written rules. This is a matter of Gentlemanly Conscience.

The underlying rule of them all is: Did you spend money, or deliberately cause someone else to spend money on your behalf, for anything shaving related? This includes paying for shipping for what is otherwise free.

And, there it is: Was money spent?

Personally, I don't enter into PIFs or Trades. I don't feel a PIF fits my personal restraint goals. Trades as well. I don't stock a lot but also stock enough during the restock period where I can make it thru without needing anything. But, that leaves my without much to send out.

Stan

 

[Jim99]

Hi,

Well, I don't know as I have my usual Status in these year-long restraints as one of the operators of such. Usually, there are three of us, but I don't recall it being said I was one of those once again.

So, I presume this is going to be considered as One Man's Opinion. The rules regarding a PIF entry is that is allowed. Always has been, at least for the past six years anyway.

Yes, you are Out if you say so, regardless of the written rules. This is a matter of Gentlemanly Conscience.

The underlying rule of them all is: Did you spend money, or deliberately cause someone else to spend money on your behalf, for anything shaving related? This includes paying for shipping for what is otherwise free.

And, there it is: Was money spent?

Personally, I don't enter into PIFs or Trades. I don't feel a PIF fits my personal restraint goals. Trades as well. I don't stock a lot but also stock enough during the restock period where I can make it thru without needing anything. But, that leaves my without much to send out.

Stan

Money was spent by the person piff’ing the razor, but he would have spent that regardless who won.

 

[KQY61]

Hi,

No. The money spent question is for the one receiving the PIF.

Stan

 

[Jim99]

So it sounds like there’s not an issue here and I’m still in?

 

[CzechCzar]

So it sounds like there’s not an issue here and I’m still in?

I believe so? Someone else please confirm!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[gcconspiracy]

So it sounds like there’s not an issue here and I’m still in?

I’d say you’re definitely still in, but I’m not an authority in any capacity...

 

[Ryanshh]

I’d say you’re definitely still in, but I’m not an authority in any capacity...

Fully agree, including not being an authority.

 

[JAHE]

Unfortunately I can't contribute anything meaningful to this discussion. However there are two things I am sure about: (1) I am still in (ha!) and (2) my skin feels 100% bbs tonight.

Finally I do hope that you will settle this dispute without any frictions...!

SOTD (# 98/2020)
26-05-2020

Preshave: warm water, Proraso Pre-shave White
Brush: NOM Gustav "Havanna" Synthetic Black Fibre
Soap: Wickham Soap 1912 ~ Classic 24
Razor: Mühle R41
Blade: Feather (1)
Postshave: frigid tap water, Wickham Soap Classic 24 After Shave Balm

JAHE