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2020 Rocnel Sailor adjustable razor production model

Part of the selling point of 316L razors is that they are harder and more resilient than other grades of steel. They are supposed to outlast us, right? So when premium priced razors with a stated 316L alloy are soft -- and a number of owners of different Rocnel razor models have noted this -- it is worth mentioning.

I have added some pictures of dents, dings and deep scratches (almost gashes) below. But keep in mind that most of us own [too] many razors, so rather than blindly dismiss comments on scratches, I view these as comparative assessments on material quality versus other premium razors owned.

Even if we accept that Rocnel razors are 316L stainless steel, it's obvious that not all 316L steels are the same quality. Steel from North America and Japan is generally regarded more highly than that from Russia and China.
Looking into it, 316L has a lower carbon amount, this would explain why it is a softer metal, compared to regular 316. The advantage though, is higher corrosion resistance.

I suppose they could apply heat treatment and oil quenching to harden the steel, but I think for the meantime it might be too cost prohibited and time consuming.

It's never fun to discover blemishes on our tools, so I guess we will have to wait until they are able to use Adamantium, lol.
 
Part of the selling point of 316L razors is that they are harder and more resilient than other grades of steel. They are supposed to outlast us, right? So when premium priced razors with a stated 316L alloy are soft -- and a number of owners of different Rocnel razor models have noted this -- it is worth mentioning.

I have added some pictures of dents, dings and deep scratches (almost gashes) below. But keep in mind that most of us own [too] many razors, so rather than blindly dismiss comments on scratches, I view these as comparative assessments on material quality versus other premium razors owned.

Even if we accept that Rocnel razors are 316L stainless steel, it's obvious that not all 316L steels are the same quality. Steel from North America and Japan is generally regarded more highly than that from Russia and China.
Seems you know a lot about 316L except how to handle and maintain it. But, by all means, malign the manufacturer. Smh.

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^
Who is maligning? These forums are here to discuss such things, including sharing of actual user experiences. The guy’s designs are amazing; absolutely no one disagrees and some of us actually spent money on his razors. But there are signs that the quality of the metal doesn’t measure up.

I think it is okay to demand better. It doesn’t mean there is ill intent.
 
^
Who is maligning? These forums are here to discuss such things, including sharing of actual user experiences. The guy’s designs are amazing; absolutely no one disagrees and some of us actually spent money on his razors. But there are signs that the quality of the metal doesn’t measure up.

I think it is okay to demand better. It doesn’t mean there is ill intent.

Are you not the same guy that insinuated Murat was lying about the material used? What word would you use to describe such a statement? Discussion? I call it dishonest and maligning. You are free to choose your words, as am I. You chose to attack the mans reputation/character, in a public forum, because you can't manage your gear? You crack me up. A razor is a tool. It isn't indestructible and it will show sign of use and yes, misuse.

If you "demand better", start in your den and your methods of use. The man sold you exactly what he advertised and you paid for. Did he not? If you had questions about the material he chose to use and where he sourced it, just ask him. He is accessible. I get why you are pissed, I may be too, but the fault isn't solely placed on the material and manufacturer.
 
Looking into it, 316L has a lower carbon amount, this would explain why it is a softer metal, compared to regular 316. The advantage though, is higher corrosion resistance.

I suppose they could apply heat treatment and oil quenching to harden the steel, but I think for the meantime it might be too cost prohibited and time consuming.

It's never fun to discover blemishes on our tools, so I guess we will have to wait until they are able to use Adamantium, lol.
This hits the nail on the head imho. 316L is not known for being necessarily harder than other stainless steels afaik but rather more corrosion resistant than most and so to expect 316L to be harder just because it is 316L is not really hitting the mark. If murat can be blamed, its likely for using 316L stainless steel that has not been hardened rather than using a different steel altogether.
 
WOW....this thread took a real downswing!! I completely agree with @loot on this one. The quality of the material and the workmanship of most anything in the Rocnel line is top notch and as he explained, Murat is very easily accessible on social media and will answer most any question you might have!! But for someone to make assumptions about him not using what he says he's using to build his products you better have some metallurgy reports specific to the razor you have of his to back that up or not even say anything at all about it!! Conspiracy theories be damned!!

Bottom line is it doesn't matter what metal a razor is made of, if its coming in at +/- 150gr and you drop it you'd better expect some form of blemish on it somewhere and if there's not then consider yourself VERY lucky!!
 
Are you not the same guy that insinuated Murat was lying about the material used? What word would you use to describe such a statement? Discussion? I call it dishonest and maligning. You are free to choose your words, as am I. You chose to attack the mans reputation/character, in a public forum, because you can't manage your gear? You crack me up. A razor is a tool. It isn't indestructible and it will show sign of use and yes, misuse.

If you "demand better", start in your den and your methods of use. The man sold you exactly what he advertised and you paid for. Did he not? If you had questions about the material he chose to use and where he sourced it, just ask him. He is accessible. I get why you are pissed, I may be too, but the fault isn't solely placed on the material and manufacturer.
Um, no, not even remotely upset. Everyone has taken accountability for the dings and scratches while noting that these flaws don't seem to happen with other razors, hence the rational conclusion that the steel is unusually soft. In that context, I don't think expressing skepticism as to the grade or quality of the steel is unreasonable.
 
This hits the nail on the head imho. 316L is not known for being necessarily harder than other stainless steels afaik but rather more corrosion resistant than most and so to expect 316L to be harder just because it is 316L is not really hitting the mark. If murat can be blamed, its likely for using 316L stainless steel that has not been hardened rather than using a different steel altogether.
I know we were talking about 316L, but the Rocnel website says 316.
 
I know we were talking about 316L, but the Rocnel website says 316.
I may be mistaken concerning the website during the time frame when I ordered my sailor (when teh website was different) but the website currently says 316L.


I also seem to recall reading at the time that it was 316L but I stand to be corrected on that. For whatever it is worth the 2019 sailor sold by bulgoose is also 316L so I cannot imagine why murat would shift to 316 for the 2020 model.
 
I may be mistaken concerning the website during the time frame when I ordered my sailor (when teh website was different) but the website currently says 316L.


I also seem to recall reading at the time that it was 316L but I stand to be corrected on that. For whatever it is worth the 2019 sailor sold by bulgoose is also 316L so I cannot imagine why murat would shift to 316 for the 2020 model.
2020 was 316L as stated on the Instagram feed announcing the Model S. I don't think I've ever been to the website so will abstain from comment.

http://instagr.am/p/CDRKZONnB1e/

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IANAM (I am not a metallurgist, lol) but steel is nothing more than carbonized iron. Lowering carbon content just makes the material more like iron and less like steel.

In my rudimentary understanding, the difference between "steel" and "stainless steel" is mostly about levels of chromium and other metals, and not so much about carbon content. You have to have a certain amount of carbon to even make the material "steel."

I guess I don't get how a bit less carbon would make a steel softer; iron is not all that soft, is it? Maybe somebody who knows a lot more about metals than I do can enlighten me.
 
Part of the selling point of 316L razors is that they are harder and more resilient than other grades of steel. They are supposed to outlast us, right? So when premium priced razors with a stated 316L alloy are soft -- and a number of owners of different Rocnel razor models have noted this -- it is worth mentioning.

I have added some pictures of dents, dings and deep scratches (almost gashes) below. But keep in mind that most of us own [too] many razors, so rather than blindly dismiss comments on scratches, I view these as comparative assessments on material quality versus other premium razors owned.

Even if we accept that Rocnel razors are 316L stainless steel, it's obvious that not all 316L steels are the same quality. Steel from North America and Japan is generally regarded more highly than that from Russia and China.

During the discourse, I failed to ask the obvious. How? Exactly how did you manage to mar the SE like that. I've looked at the photo a dozen times and can't figure it out. There worst mark on the left was done by something round, about a 1/4" in dia, and likely hollow like a tube or pipe. Did an object fall onto it with laying on a counter? The baseplate had to be stable and struck. No?

The past few days have reminded my why I never shake a razor under a faucet. Maybe you can add another "why you shouldn't" to the list. Consider it a public service.
 
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During the discourse, I failed to ask the obvious. How? Exactly how did you manage to mar the SE like that. I've looked at the photo a dozen times and can't figure it out. There worst mark on the left was done by something round, about a 1/4" in dia, and likely hollow like a tube or pipe. Did an object fall onto it with laying on a counter? The baseplate had to be stable and struck. No?

The past few days have reminded my why I never shake a razor under a faucet. Maybe you can add another "why you shouldn't" to the list. Consider it a public service.
There really is no reason to shake a razor under a faucet, anyway. Isn't that one of the reasons we switched away from cartridge razors? To avoid all the clogging and thus, the necessity of shaking? A bit of running water is enough to clear a DE of lather and any removed stubble without any shaking at all. Maybe it's just a bad habit that some people hold onto from their cartridge-razor days???
 
There really is no reason to shake a razor under a faucet, anyway. Isn't that one of the reasons we switched away from cartridge razors? To avoid all the clogging and thus, the necessity of shaking? A bit of running water is enough to clear a DE of lather and any removed stubble without any shaking at all. Maybe it's just a bad habit that some people hold onto from their cartridge-razor days???
*loot shrugs* Got me bro. I cold water shave and don't shake a razor.
 
Even with such a painful damage to my Rocnel Sailor, I can actually still say I am quite lucky.

I cannot speak for anyone else, but at the end of the day I do in fact hold myself accountable for my actions or rather mis-actions.

I think it's extremely hard to be in Murat's position. He is a man that strives for excellence, this shows in the products he makes, and the service he offers. We as clients identify with that and naturally gravitate towards the same values.

After a couple of months of feeling down, there is hope. Whether the metal in question is harder or softer, it really doesn't matter, because Murat is there for me. I told him about my situation and he offered to give me a replacement top cap on the next batch of release. He never said how much, and was probably implying that it was on the house. Now that is customer service. Of course I don't feel completely right taking a part for free, so I told him to just bill me once he sends out the top cap.

For him, it's tough because he has to make a judgement call on which metals to use. At the end of the day, even if it's a softer metal, if for longevity sakes it does make perfect sense to choose one that would offer more corrosion resistance.

We're in a bit of a rare circle as Rocnel owners. It's a privilege to be able to enjoy these razors that are absolute works of art, just pure masterpieces, right gentleman? 🍻
IMG_20201029_092636_20210203135927.jpg
 
Even with such a painful damage to my Rocnel Sailor, I can actually still say I am quite lucky.

I cannot speak for anyone else, but at the end of the day I do in fact hold myself accountable for my actions or rather mis-actions.

I think it's extremely hard to be in Murat's position. He is a man that strives for excellence, this shows in the products he makes, and the service he offers. We as clients identify with that and naturally gravitate towards the same values.

After a couple of months of feeling down, there is hope. Whether the metal in question is harder or softer, it really doesn't matter, because Murat is there for me. I told him about my situation and he offered to give me a replacement top cap on the next batch of release. He never said how much, and was probably implying that it was on the house. Now that is customer service. Of course I don't feel completely right taking a part for free, so I told him to just bill me once he sends out the top cap.

For him, it's tough because he has to make a judgement call on which metals to use. At the end of the day, even if it's a softer metal, if for longevity sakes it does make perfect sense to choose one that would offer more corrosion resistance.

We're in a bit of a rare circle as Rocnel owners. It's a privilege to be able to enjoy these razors that are absolute works of art, just pure masterpieces, right gentleman? 🍻
View attachment 1217720

Very well said. I am a big fan of the adjustables Murat puts out. The 2017 was interesting and I actually sold it. My biggest complaint was I couldn't open it up enough (solved by 2019 model) and the blade feel was high (a characteristic I later came to appreciate). The 2019 feels a lot like the 2017 but can be opened up further than any sane human would want. So, I tracked down another 2017 to complete the collection. The 2020 eased up on the blade feel, keep the adjustment range, and added a 5gal pail of smooth. I can't wait to get my hands on the 2021. Lucky we are.

PS. The blue cases are insane, no? Well built class.
 
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