20,000 Percent Tax Increase???

[Lynchmeister]

Did I read correctly that you feel we have a bad economy?

I'm not claiming to be an authority on political issues, so it's possible that I may inadvertantly say something and mean something else.

I'll be the first to say that I don't like Bush and his policies, but that's not what this thread is about. In regard to your question, though, no I don't think our economy is bad, but it sure is a lot worse off since Bush and his cronies have taken office. Clinton left us as a highly respected country in the world community with a booming economy, while Bush has set spending records the country has never seen and has done nothing in terms of improving foreign relations. Instead, when Cheney wants to go to war and blow a king's ransom of our tax dollars (on what?), he just asks, "Who's your daddy?!?" and Bush opens the country's wallet.

I will say though, that if it gets so far as Bush's desk and he vetoes the bill, it will be probably the first time I've agreed with and approved of something he's done while in office.

 

[zachster]

I normally don't discuss politics and I am not a big fan of the current administration.
But,
How has our economy been drug though the mud?

I don't know about being drug through the mud, but I sense a downward trend. Most of my clients are restaurants, and I've found my client base to be a good bellwether for the economy over the last few years. Right now they are not doing all that well. Over the last year we have seen fewer restaurant openings and more closures than usual, largely because consumers don't have the disposable income for luxuries like eating out. Meanwhile labor costs and the cost of goods (basics like meat, poultry, produce) are rising substantially. A lack of disposable income and rising cost of goods and services, is not a good combination, and spells trouble for any economy. Whether this has anything to do with the current administration, or just market forces generally, is not my bailiwick. But putting cigar manufacturers out of business ain't going to help none...

 

[JonEdangerousli]

I don't know about being drug through the mud, but I sense a downward trend. Most of my clients are restaurants, and I've found my client base to be a good bellwether for the economy over the last few years. Right now they are not doing all that well. Over the last year we have seen fewer restaurant openings and more closures than usual, largely because consumers don't have the disposable income for luxuries like eating out. Meanwhile labor costs and the cost of goods (basics like meat, poultry, produce) are rising substantially. A lack of disposable income and rising cost of goods and services, is not a good combination, and spells trouble for any economy. Whether this has anything to do with the current administration, or just market forces generally, is not my bailiwick. But putting cigar manufacturers out of business ain't going to help none...

Two ideas to research:

1. causality
2. disposable income vs. consumer debt levels

 

[ouch]

Clinton left us as a highly respected country in the world community with a booming economy, while Bush has set spending records the country has never seen and has done nothing in terms of improving foreign relations.

I try to avoid these threads like the plague, so I'll keep it simple.

Our leaders get (or should I say take) too much credit when things are going well, and receive too much blame when things are going poorly. The economy is, and will always be, cyclical. Entering office in the middle of an upswing is recommended to anyone seeking election.

 

[JonEdangerousli]

I try to avoid these threads like the plague, so I'll keep it simple.

Our leaders get (or should I say take) too much credit when things are going well, and receive too much blame when things are going poorly. The economy is, and will always be, cyclical. Entering office in the middle of an upswing is recommended to anyone seeking election.

Well said.

I have a favorite expression that most of my friends are sick of hearing me say:

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail"​

 

[tim8557]

I try to avoid these threads like the plague, so I'll keep it simple.

Our leaders get (or should I say take) too much credit when things are going well, and receive too much blame when things are going poorly. The economy is, and will always be, cyclical. Entering office in the middle of an upswing is recommended to anyone seeking election.

So well spoken, Ouch.

 

[analog_kid]

I try to avoid these threads like the plague, so I'll keep it simple.

Our leaders get (or should I say take) too much credit when things are going well, and receive too much blame when things are going poorly. The economy is, and will always be, cyclical. Entering office in the middle of an upswing is recommended to anyone seeking election.

Very well said. And fairly accurate imo.

 

[zachster]

Here's a nice summary of the effect of the new tax, sent by JR Cigar today to its customers:

Under the current proposal, the cigar tax rate would increase an astounding 20,413% to a maximum of $10 per cigar! All large cigars would effectively be taxed at 53.13% of the manufacturer's selling price. In all of the Internal Revenue Code, no other product is subject to an excise tax that approaches this level. To compound the injury, a "floor stock" tax would be assessed on all products in inventory, and put a majority of the industry out of business in one fell swoop.

 

[Woknblues]

hmmm... our economy. Dow Jones, S&P, employment, its all a joke, when compared to what the "Fed" does.

anyone looking into economics should look into the "Fed" and how it "does business"....

http://www.mises.org/story/1533 (check the date on this article....amazingly predicted)
http://www.mises.org/freemarket_detail.asp?control=478&sortorder=articledate (an interesting story of what happened the last time America tried a "Fed" style central banking system)

http://www.mises.org/workingpapers.asp (a nice resource for many articles of economics and good articles about what is going on with our "economy")


http://www.ruwart.com/Healing/
(a nice afternoon read, that may shake your previously held beliefs...)

and finally, the best place to start.....
http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.swf
introduction.swf

yes, I put that at the end on purpose!

 

[jazzman]

I try to avoid these threads like the plague, so I'll keep it simple.

Our leaders get (or should I say take) too much credit when things are going well, and receive too much blame when things are going poorly. The economy is, and will always be, cyclical. Entering office in the middle of an upswing is recommended to anyone seeking election.

Yeah, but Clinton was smart enough to be in office when the technology portions of our economy really took off, so he must have done a great job at managing the economy. Bush was so dumb that he entered office shortly after that surge started to cool off. (I have no explanation for how Bush managed to be in office when the stock market recovered from that cooling off).

I'm not an economist, I just root for my guys.

 

[bjrn]

I try to avoid these threads like the plague, so I'll keep it simple.

Okay, slightly off-topic, but I can't stop myself any longer. Sorry guys.

It's not 20 000% increse, it's "only" 10 000%. A 100% increse would have made it 10c, 200% would have made it 15c (and 20 000% would have been $15).

Having gotten that off my chest, 10 000 is still crazy

 

[JonEdangerousli]

Okay, slightly off-topic, but I can't stop myself any longer. Sorry guys.

It's not 20 000% increse, it's "only" 10 000%. A 100% increse would have made it 10c, 200% would have made it 15c (and 20 000% would have been $15).

Having gotten that off my chest, 10 000 is still crazy

It's too late in the day for math, but that doesn't look right to me for some reason. Either way (I didn't write the article, LOL), it's outrageous.

FYI, on WSB radio (750am) this morning the news talked about the fact that shrub was going to veto a bill that would provide $ to children. That b*stard! How dare he do something to negatively impact THE CHILDREN????? They didn't mention the cigar tax part.

 

[boboakalfb]

Our leaders get (or should I say take) too much credit when things are going well, and receive too much blame when things are going poorly. The economy is, and will always be, cyclical. Entering office in the middle of an upswing is recommended to anyone seeking election.

Well said.

 

[6jokers]

I received a rather disturbing email from CAO Cigars today. I thought I'd spread the word since I know I'm not the only member here that enjoys a good cigar. Below is the text contained, as well as directions on what action needs to be taken.

FIGHT FOR YOUR CIGAR!

The U.S. Senate is considering a bill that would significantly increase the price of the cigars you currently enjoy. Many people have mistakenly described this as a "$10 tax on cigars." What it calls for is increasing the current federal tax on cigars from 20.7% of the manufacturer's selling price to 53.3%.

What makes this increase incredibly more dramatic and potentially hazardous to the premium cigar industry is the fact that the current tax is capped at around 5 cents per cigar; however, the new plan calls for a cap of $10 per cigar. The bottom line is that - if passed - this legislation could potentially DOUBLE cigar prices!

Now is the time to make your voice heard. We urge you to contact your Senator and fight for your right to enjoy one of life's last "affordable luxuries!" GO HERE http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
for a contact list of U.S. Senators with phone numbers and email addresses. Every call and email counts as most elected officials will open a new file on a matter if they receive 10 or more contacts of any kind from within their jurisdiction.

Don't sit back and wait for 'someone else' to fight for YOUR individual rights - act NOW.

 

[analog_kid]

I received a rather disturbing email from CAO Cigars today. I thought I'd spread the word since I know I'm not the only member here that enjoys a good cigar. Below is the text contained, as well as directions on what action needs to be taken.

FIGHT FOR YOUR CIGAR!

The U.S. Senate is considering a bill that would significantly increase the price of the cigars you currently enjoy. Many people have mistakenly described this as a "$10 tax on cigars." What it calls for is increasing the current federal tax on cigars from 20.7% of the manufacturer's selling price to 53.3%.

What makes this increase incredibly more dramatic and potentially hazardous to the premium cigar industry is the fact that the current tax is capped at around 5 cents per cigar; however, the new plan calls for a cap of $10 per cigar. The bottom line is that - if passed - this legislation could potentially DOUBLE cigar prices!

Now is the time to make your voice heard. We urge you to contact your Senator and fight for your right to enjoy one of life's last "affordable luxuries!" GO HERE http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
for a contact list of U.S. Senators with phone numbers and email addresses. Every call and email counts as most elected officials will open a new file on a matter if they receive 10 or more contacts of any kind from within their jurisdiction.

Don't sit back and wait for 'someone else' to fight for YOUR individual rights - act NOW.

I emailed my senators and the President yesterday. I made an attempt at calling Senator Kohl today but he was "unavailable" to take my call.

 

[BarryR]

This is what you get once the Democrats take over. It'll only get worse in 2 years, when we will inevitably end up with a Democrat in the White House (God forbid). Of course being the hypocrites that they always are, like JFK squirreling away 10,000 Cuban Cigars the day before he signed the Cuban Embargo, they'll have theirs all stashed away.

I have to agree that the tax is absurd. I don't have a problem with high cigarette taxes (we pay for it in health care dollars) but cigars are relatively harmless.

Anyway -- the last six years have screwed this country up beyond belief and Bush has cost us far more (about $500 Billion for his war) than all the bleeding-heart lefty programs and taxes that you probably fear.

AND -- it is the Republicans who are aligned with the anti-Castro Cubans currently who are keeping up the embargo while we work partner with countries that are as bad or worse then Cuba. The hypocrisy charge is accurate but not restricted to the Democrats!

 

[JonEdangerousli]

I have to agree that the tax is absurd. ...but cigars are relatively harmless

WOW! Look at us! 100% in agreement!

 

[ouch]

Okay, slightly off-topic, but I can't stop myself any longer. Sorry guys.

It's not 20 000% increse, it's "only" 10 000%. A 100% increse would have made it 10c, 200% would have made it 15c (and 20 000% would have been $15).

Having gotten that off my chest, 10 000 is still crazy

Would you like to check those numbers? The tax increased by a factor of 200.

 

[BarryR]

WOW! Look at us! 100% in agreement!

Was it Mark Twain who said even a broken clock is right twice a day?
PS: You're the broken clock, not me! I'm the wise person (or is it wise guy?)

 

[JonEdangerousli]

Was it Mark Twain who said even a broken clock is right twice a day?
PS: You're the broken clock, not me! I'm the wise person (or is it wise guy?)

I think you're close, intelligent burro?