Complete brush idiot here. I'm seeing talk of 2 band and 3 band and I thought people were talking about handle design. I think they are talking about the hair itself now. But I can't figure out what they mean. Searched the site and the Wiki, and I'm still lost. Help!
2 band/3 band? please explain...
- Thread starter TheVez2
- Start date
A 2-Band brush will only have 2 bands of colour in the hair (one light and one dark) as in this photo.....
Whereas a 3-band brush will have a light band at the base, a dark band in the middle and then another lighter band at the tips.
HTH
Whereas a 3-band brush will have a light band at the base, a dark band in the middle and then another lighter band at the tips.
HTH
- Thread starter
- #3
OK, that makes sense. So what is the difference? Which is better for what? Which is more expensive?
My understanding is (at least for Simpson's brushes) that the 2-Band is a little more exclusive and therefore slightly more expensive. I believe that the 2-Band hair exhibits better backbone while still retaining soft tips.
For the most part 2 band is more expensive. Rooney and Shavemac both feature 2 band hair in their top of the line brushes. Simpson only sells 2 band sparaticly as the hair is hard to source, and Rooney no longer makes them for the same reason. Simpson 2 band is a little cheaper than their Super 3 band hair, but as it is in limited supply its a crap shoot to find the exact brush you are looking for, or the price a given vendor might charge. Some expect a premium for having the last of a particular brush, while another vendor might have them on close out for their cost (Vintage Blades).
There are several structural difference between 2 and 3 band hair. The first and in my opinion the most important is diameter. 3 band hair is topically uniform in diameter from base to tip. Where 2 band hair has a very wide base (the dark part of the hair), and a slender tip (the white). This provides for much more backbone per hair than your standard 3 band. The small floppy tips are still soft to the face, but not quite as soft as most 3 bands of similar quality. If you face lather this is a very adventitious combination. Where you get a nice massaging feeling, soft tips, but skip out on the prickliness that a brush of that backbone might have. Thus a 2 band brush can achieve the same backbone as a 3 band brush, but with less hair needed. Also with the large diameter hair, 2 band needs to be soaked almost like a boar brush to become soft. They are not exactly harsh when dry, but they do soften up substantially after a couple minuets in warm water. Three band for the most part feels the same after just a couple seconds submerged water.
In simple terms a 2 band could be said to be a better face lathering brush, where 3 band would be a better bowl brush. Though many other factors play into this. Knot size, loft, handle, hair quality, etc, etc, play at least as much of a factor as hair type though. Just to prove this point, I have a great all around 2 band, and some good 3 band face latherers.
I almost strictly face lather with soaps, so for me two band is my personal favorite, but if you use mainly cream or bowl lather 3 band would most likely be better. Why pay the premium price for a tool that is not suited to your chosen task??!!?
If you were curious about a specific brush or even a couple brushes post them and we might be of more specific help for you. Also if you could tell us a little bit more your shaving style/gear preferences we might be able to sort out what might be a better fit for you.
There are several structural difference between 2 and 3 band hair. The first and in my opinion the most important is diameter. 3 band hair is topically uniform in diameter from base to tip. Where 2 band hair has a very wide base (the dark part of the hair), and a slender tip (the white). This provides for much more backbone per hair than your standard 3 band. The small floppy tips are still soft to the face, but not quite as soft as most 3 bands of similar quality. If you face lather this is a very adventitious combination. Where you get a nice massaging feeling, soft tips, but skip out on the prickliness that a brush of that backbone might have. Thus a 2 band brush can achieve the same backbone as a 3 band brush, but with less hair needed. Also with the large diameter hair, 2 band needs to be soaked almost like a boar brush to become soft. They are not exactly harsh when dry, but they do soften up substantially after a couple minuets in warm water. Three band for the most part feels the same after just a couple seconds submerged water.
In simple terms a 2 band could be said to be a better face lathering brush, where 3 band would be a better bowl brush. Though many other factors play into this. Knot size, loft, handle, hair quality, etc, etc, play at least as much of a factor as hair type though. Just to prove this point, I have a great all around 2 band, and some good 3 band face latherers.
I almost strictly face lather with soaps, so for me two band is my personal favorite, but if you use mainly cream or bowl lather 3 band would most likely be better. Why pay the premium price for a tool that is not suited to your chosen task??!!?
If you were curious about a specific brush or even a couple brushes post them and we might be of more specific help for you. Also if you could tell us a little bit more your shaving style/gear preferences we might be able to sort out what might be a better fit for you.
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awesome explanation Loric! Thanks
You are quite welcome. Just for comparison here are some of my 2 bands next to some of my 3 bands.
View attachment 125283
If I may make another observation, two band just looks cooler. Look at it! Shear elegance.
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How is the rooney finest compared to your shavemac D01 flat top? I've been wanting to try and get a finest, but not sure if it is worth it as I absolutely love my D01.
Its only a Heritage Stubby 2, I WISH it was a Finest. It is still an interesting brush. Despite Rooneys reputation for ultra dense brushes, this is only of a medium density. It however, has more backbone per hair than any other brush I ow. Unfortunately there is just not as much of it as I would like. The hair is very soft tipped, cottony to Shavemacs silky. The jury is still out on this guy for me, as I have only used it a couple times, and to be honest I love a DENSE brush. It might be a nice niche brush for me as it feels notably different than most of my other brushes.
I love my Shavemac though, and would suggest one to anyone who like face lathering soaps (and has the money to throw around). If you go the Shavemac flat top rout I would suggest cutting the loft down a little bit (maybe 3-5mm) as you loose a bit of backbone when you delete the short support hairs. I got mine at stock loft, and I dont think its floppy but the more I refine my tastes the more I wish it was shorter. Another observation is that the Stubby 2 feels small for a 24mm brush (low density, tight bulb, massive backbone per hair), where as the flat top feels big to the face. Again with out the short support hairs every hair in the knot is making contact with your face 100% of the time, not to mention the large bloom.
I am on the lookout for a Rooney Finest as I like the Stubby, but wish it was more dense and I think I would go so far as to say I could use more backbone. Both of which Finest are famous for LOL so if anyone out there has one they dont want
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Loric, thank for the explanation on the differences between two-band and three-band in the Simpsons line. I picked up a two-band tulip 1 a few weeks back and it's a wonderful brush for face lathering. Now, with an understanding of the hair structure, I know why.
best,
Mike
best,
Mike
I recently borrowed Scotto's particle accelerator to smash two badgers into each other at 0.9c, and am now in possession of the world's first four band brush.
I recently borrowed Scotto's particle accelerator to smash two badgers into each other at 0.9c, and am now in possession of the world's first four band brush.
Pray tell.............. which 2 2-Bands did you sacrifice?
Well, it required the sacrifice of a lot more than two 2-bands. You didn't think I got it right the first time around, did you?
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Then there is the real fabled 4 band brush
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My understanding regarding 2 bands or 3 bands is more related to from which part of the badger hair is coming from. I guess it depends also on manufacturers but it also influences the length of the hair. Depending the length of the hair 2 band is more noticeable than others. If you look at the root colour of any 2 band is also white. So, depending at which height the hair is cut you have the 3rd band more visible or not. As I mentioned, when you break a 2 band handle you will notice that the hair that is in the handle interior is white.
This is true, but most two band hair comes from long hair badgers. There are several different types of two band, and I assume several different species and production possess. Rooneys finest comes from long hair high mountain badgers. So there is a third band, but the length of that black band is a function of the long hair variety. I cant speak for other makers, but after seeing how different Simpson is from Shavemac, and Shavemac from TGN, from Rooney Heritage, etc, etc I am sure body part would come into effect too.
I've been after a smallish brush for quite some time. It had to have a smaller knot and a lot of backbone whilst being soft at the tips, for the main purpose of face lathering, and eureka: Simpson's 2-band Emperor 1. What a fantastic brush. I got it from West Coast Shaving a few days ago and although its still being broken in, the feel of the 2-band hair on my face is exactly what I've been wanting and I'm absolutely crazy about the handle - it's nice and weighty - a perfect brush in my opinion.
Exactly how I feel about my new Tulip 1 2B
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