Is it possible to get a decent shave edge by finishing on a 10k natural stone.
10k natural
- Thread starter Suhrim21
- Start date
Very possible, decent would be personal preference, shaveable atleast. But do you know for sure it is 10k? As it is a natural stone i mean.
- Thread starter
- #3
I dont know for sure. I put a link to it in another thread. I do know it is very smooth so I have assumed it is very close to 10k if it isn't exactly 10k.
Could probably be used as a finishing stone before moving on to pasted strops i think, not sure. If it does not damage your edge(of toxic inclusions) it could atleast be used as a progression, or maybe make a slurry as see how you can progress with it. I like to experiment with stones. But at that level it should shave, but probably not as comfortable as it can be. But for 20 dollars(?), worth a try maybe?
“There is no definitive grit number we can assign to the Zulu Grey as it is a natural hone, however many experienced users have estimated grit ratings from 12-15k+, but really these sorts of figures are not at all scientific, nor very useful when talking about natural honing stones. Each hone will be slightly different from the next, and natural hones in general will always perform in different ways with different types of steel. The Zulu Grey is nonetheless a ‘finishing stone’ in the truest sense of the term. It will improve or smooth the shaving edge off of an 8000 -12000grit synthetic stone. Some users will even go to the Zulu Grey after a 16000 grit Shapton GS, as they find it smooths out the crispness of the edge left by the Shapton. The Zulu Grey is an honest, authentic natural product that works exceptionally well as a finishing stone for straight razors.”
I have used a Zulu Grey for years. Always results in a right fine edge.
What stone is it?
Zulu Grey 3”x8”
Actually right now it’s on sale
About $102 USD
Actually right now it’s on sale
About $102 USD
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Natural stones have no grit rating.
It's very possible to get a super sharp, wicked sharp, and great feeling edge on a natural stone such as a Norton Translucent Arkansas or a coticule. Others, of course.
Happy shaves,
Jim
The stone you posted in the other thread is Agate I believe. It is sold from China and I don't believe for a second that it is 10k - no matter what the listing says.
The listing actually states it is natural emerald.
Read this.
Decdeal Hone (green emerald)
The listing actually states it is natural emerald.
Read this.
Decdeal Hone (green emerald)
- Thread starter
- #10
I will just stick to using it for kitchen knives.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Here's my shave and honing report from my first use of the Zulu Grey, link. I'll add it to the list of good natural finishing stones.
Happy shaves,
Jim
- Thread starter
- #12
What would be the cheapest finishing option to really get a blade shave ready.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Starting where?
You know the joke. A man asks a farmer, "How do you get to London from here?" The farmer replies, "Well, if I were going to London I wouldn't start here."
What sort of edge and bevel are you starting with?
Also, you do understand that shave ready is not the same for everybody, right? I have purchased several "shave ready" razors which weren't acceptable to me, but mighty be to you. I have, just today, honed a perfectly shave ready edge (shave ready on my face) because I wanted the edge to be better. It was good, but not good enough perhaps. Now it's better.
It's a big topic really.
- Thread starter
- #14
I read a lot on jnat coticule is there anything else that will give a similar edge that is inexpensive
If you have a shaveable edge, a cheap option would be to use pasted strops to improve sharpness and feel. CrOx and FeOx, or Dovo pastes, or a diamond progression 0.5, 0.25 and .01 microns.
Narural stones are really fun and can be very flexible, but consistensy can be hard, and 2 types of the same stone are never the same. No guaranteed results unless the stone you are buying has been tested. And they are much more expensive than pasted strops.
It depends on where your focus is i guess.
Narural stones are really fun and can be very flexible, but consistensy can be hard, and 2 types of the same stone are never the same. No guaranteed results unless the stone you are buying has been tested. And they are much more expensive than pasted strops.
It depends on where your focus is i guess.
I find black and trans Arkansas's to be consistently wonderful but you have to take into consideration that I'm an Arkaholic and my judgement may be skewed.......I love natural edges, I'm cheap, I love to hone. I've tried finishing on Coticules, BBW, and Vermont slate, and even pasted strops and I prefer Arks and plain leather. Maybe some day this may change but not in my foreseeable future. I'm positive an Ark will finish past 10k.
Second. Scour the auctions or email Dans about a “primitive cut” surgical black Arkansas. I have one with no joke ~11” x 3” honing surface that was under $50. It’s nice enough that I’m planning to go back for a fully finished giant one in a box soon.
Only caveat I’ll throw in is I hit the clean linen strop before the clean leather strop, but I think we’re still on the same team.
Hard to beat a 6" or 7" vintage coticule for performance vs value. They go for under $50 still if they aren't really pretty or special looking (extremely thick, labeled, etc). Hell, I've scored nice vintage 5" and 6" coticules under $30 several times... just had to lap a dish out or reglue them to their backing, or some similar minor repair. Deals are out there if you look for ugly ducklings.
5" Thuringians can be had in $50-100 range if you are comfortable honing on something that small. 6x2" Trans/black arkansas can still be had reasonably (though anything bigger has gotten quite pricey)... but they're a bit of a different technique required if you're used to synthetic waterstones so a slight learning curve.
Zulu Grey sells two stones. There is a Silk Vein stone that is advertised as a pre-finisher with an "estimated" potential of 8-10K. The stone sold as a Zulu Grey is advertised as a finishing stone. Although no grit estimate is given by the vendor, many have estimated it to be somewhere in the 12-16K range. I have a Shapton Glass 16K and and I believe mine Zulu Grey is similar in finishing potential. Once you learn to hone on a Zulu Grey, it can produce a wonderful edge, but it is different from most other hones, so there is a learning curve in using it.
Whether you can shave off a 10K equivalent stone depends on the characteristics of your beard. I have a tough beard and cannot shave off any hone that is at or below 10K, and that includes Coticules.
If you are looking for an inexpensive natural hone, you might consider a Chinese Guangxi hone. Although they are often advertised as a 12K natural hone, they do vary in quality. I have two: one is around 10K and the other is around 12K compared to Naniwa 10K and 12K synthetics. I can shave off the 12K Guangxi, but I have other hones that will produce even finer edges.
Another stone I have found to hone somewhere around the 12K range is the Tsushima Ocean Blue. Handheld versions of the TOB stone can be fairly inexpensive, although they have a extra large hard version of the stone that is around $150.
Another stone you might want to consider is the Impreia La Roccia. It is a controversial hone on many forums because the vendor will not reference the geological location from which the stone is quarried. It is advertised to be in the 12K-15K range. The stone that I have compares quite favorable in finishing potential to my Shapton Glass 16K.
The other natural stone that works well for me is the Greek Vermio, but they are out of stock at Griffith Shaving. It produces great edges.
I do not have a vintage Escher or JNat. Thus, I cannot comment on those stones, but they are often quite expensive. I recently purchased a Thuringian from Timbertools. Escher stones are Thuringian stones, but only a select group of stones were sold under the Escher brand and the original mine from which the Escher stones were obtained is now closed, so there will never be any more. The best they can do day is mine stones of similar composition from mines in the same region of Germany.
My Thuringian produced an edge somewhere around the 10K level. The edge was not keen enough to shave my beard until I did about 30 strokes on CrOx followed by other pasted strops. I will continue to play with the stone to see if I can maximize its potential using other techniques.
Whether you can shave off a 10K equivalent stone depends on the characteristics of your beard. I have a tough beard and cannot shave off any hone that is at or below 10K, and that includes Coticules.
If you are looking for an inexpensive natural hone, you might consider a Chinese Guangxi hone. Although they are often advertised as a 12K natural hone, they do vary in quality. I have two: one is around 10K and the other is around 12K compared to Naniwa 10K and 12K synthetics. I can shave off the 12K Guangxi, but I have other hones that will produce even finer edges.
Another stone I have found to hone somewhere around the 12K range is the Tsushima Ocean Blue. Handheld versions of the TOB stone can be fairly inexpensive, although they have a extra large hard version of the stone that is around $150.
Another stone you might want to consider is the Impreia La Roccia. It is a controversial hone on many forums because the vendor will not reference the geological location from which the stone is quarried. It is advertised to be in the 12K-15K range. The stone that I have compares quite favorable in finishing potential to my Shapton Glass 16K.
The other natural stone that works well for me is the Greek Vermio, but they are out of stock at Griffith Shaving. It produces great edges.
I do not have a vintage Escher or JNat. Thus, I cannot comment on those stones, but they are often quite expensive. I recently purchased a Thuringian from Timbertools. Escher stones are Thuringian stones, but only a select group of stones were sold under the Escher brand and the original mine from which the Escher stones were obtained is now closed, so there will never be any more. The best they can do day is mine stones of similar composition from mines in the same region of Germany.
My Thuringian produced an edge somewhere around the 10K level. The edge was not keen enough to shave my beard until I did about 30 strokes on CrOx followed by other pasted strops. I will continue to play with the stone to see if I can maximize its potential using other techniques.
Honestly I feel I have to belabor this point too:
YOU CANNOT COMPARE NATURAL STONES ON A “k” SCALE. Natural hones vary in literally every way, and different natural stones even present with different cutting modes against the steel. The best anyone can say is “my individual stone of this type can refine an edge off of this brand of synthetic stone at this grit”.
Heck synthetic stones can’t even be compared on a “k” scale, because there’s no universal grit rating on them everything is just marketing. A Norton “8k” stone uses hard 3u particles with a seemingly sloppy PSD. A Suehiro Rika “5k” stone uses softer 3u particles with a seemingly tighter PSD. A “5k” Rika will noticeably improve an edge off an “8k” Norton, and VERY noticeably if it’s a hard tempered blade.
I’d wager nice Arkansas stones will give the most refined edge per dollar if you are in North America and especially if you are honing old British/American razors. A nice ark will further refine an edge off of an average coticule. There are some tougher arks and some amazing coticules, but that’s been my experience.
YOU CANNOT COMPARE NATURAL STONES ON A “k” SCALE. Natural hones vary in literally every way, and different natural stones even present with different cutting modes against the steel. The best anyone can say is “my individual stone of this type can refine an edge off of this brand of synthetic stone at this grit”.
Heck synthetic stones can’t even be compared on a “k” scale, because there’s no universal grit rating on them everything is just marketing. A Norton “8k” stone uses hard 3u particles with a seemingly sloppy PSD. A Suehiro Rika “5k” stone uses softer 3u particles with a seemingly tighter PSD. A “5k” Rika will noticeably improve an edge off an “8k” Norton, and VERY noticeably if it’s a hard tempered blade.
I’d wager nice Arkansas stones will give the most refined edge per dollar if you are in North America and especially if you are honing old British/American razors. A nice ark will further refine an edge off of an average coticule. There are some tougher arks and some amazing coticules, but that’s been my experience.
