0.1 CBN - Why Wasn't I Told Sooner!

[mjclark]

After getting wowed out by great results from 0.25u diamond paste on a hanging strop for Japanese and Chinese steel, I finally acquired some 0.1u CBN Emulsion and applied it to a leather paddle strop.
Oh my days! What a result!!
I'd read how impressive CBN is but I wasn't prepared for what a beautiful smooth edge it would give with that incredible level of sharpness.
So much kinder than the diamond, it felt like it had come off some magical natural stone...

... My first experiment was with a ZY 430+ that had previously been finished on 0.25u diamond.
Presumably the diamond and CBN give different scratch patterns but it worked very well indeed.
The razor was so sharp that I barely noticed it cutting except for the noise and my skin was left irritation free even in the troublespots.

And I hear that, unlike diamond, you can't overcook an edge with CBN either. Instead it just keeps on polishing.

I'm so impressed with CBN - I wonder is it effective with older and softer steels?
My old Sheffields do not like the diamond paste which can tear them up, so will they fare any better with the CBN?
Or am I better sticking to the Coti/Thuri combo with that old soft steel?

In any case, I'd read so much good stuff about CBN and now I know that it's true!

 

[clayglen]

CBN?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Bad_B]

Cubic Boron Nitride not as hard as diamond.

 

[6Cuda6]

After getting wowed out by great results from 0.25u diamond paste on a hanging strop for Japanese and Chinese steel, I finally acquired some 0.1u CBN Emulsion and applied it to a leather paddle strop.
Oh my days! What a result!!
I'd read how impressive CBN is but I wasn't prepared for what a beautiful smooth edge it would give with that incredible level of sharpness.
So much kinder than the diamond, it felt like it had come off some magical natural stone...

... My first experiment was with a ZY 430+ that had previously been finished on 0.25u diamond.
Presumably the diamond and CBN give different scratch patterns but it worked very well indeed.
The razor was so sharp that I barely noticed it cutting except for the noise and my skin was left irritation free even in the troublespots.

And I hear that, unlike diamond, you can't overcook an edge with CBN either. Instead it just keeps on polishing.

I'm so impressed with CBN - I wonder is it effective with older and softer steels?
My old Sheffields do not like the diamond paste which can tear them up, so will they fare any better with the CBN?
Or am I better sticking to the Coti/Thuri combo with that old soft steel?

In any case, I'd read so much good stuff about CBN and now I know that it's true!

Maybe your honing procedure and start to finsh hone list might help qualify this....just using pastes seems like a finishing routine to me.

 

[mjclark]

Maybe your honing procedure and start to finsh hone list might help qualify this....just using pastes seems like a finishing routine to me.

Oh yeah - I'm just talking about the final finish here.

I normal set the bevel with a vintage India benchstone then take it all the way from there with a La Veinette Coticule using a diluticot type method and then finish with a Thuri and just water.
I get lovely results from the old Sheffield steels this way but the Japanese and Chinese razors respond well to the pastes on top of this but I truly didn't realise that a final finish with the 0.1 CBN could produce such a magnificent result.

 

[kelbro]

I have been wanting to give it a try. Will follow some 200K diamond with this CBN and se how it performs.

 

[mjclark]

There don't seem to be any downsides to using CBN.

Diamond can overcook and tear steel and can also give a very harsh feel to the edge.
CBN on the other hand just keeps on polishing and the edge feels beautifully smooth on the face.
Are there any caveats?
Why aren't we all using it?

 

[Lmarkow]

If you like the "feel" of a natural edge, but end your progression with a paste or spray, won't you change the feel to whatever you used last? I'm not saying that's good or bad, if you like how it feels. Just wondering.

 

[mjclark]

If you like the "feel" of a natural edge, but end your progression with a paste or spray, won't you change the feel to whatever you used last? I'm not saying that's good or bad, if you like how it feels. Just wondering.

Good point!
The thing is the CBN creates an edge that's FEELS like it's come off a natural stone although obviously it hasn't.

 

[buca3152]

Some people find nirvana in many pastes and methods. The big thing here is try as much as you can and see what you like/dislike.

 

[mjclark]

Some people find nirvana in many pastes and methods. The big thing here is try as much as you can and see what you like/dislike.

Yes this stuff is just so much fun and so satisfying!
I have surely entered paste nirvana with this 0.1u CBN
This Cape 1000 likes it quite as much as the ZY 430+ does:

I had an equivalent experience with brushes when I first used a Simpson Synthetic - from the first touch I knew it was the brush my face had been waiting for!
It feels like I've stopped chasing and started truly enjoying!

 

[kelbro]

I tried it on a smooth leather paddle strop. I liked it. Close, smooth shave.

 

[Slash McCoy]

.25u seems to be in sort of a sour spot. It just feels a little unkind to my face. .1u diamond ON LAPPED BALSA, however, feels silky smooth. So while I have not used CBN, I think the main thing is possibly the grit size, and not the material. Also, any very fine abrasive used as a post finish works better in (not on, but actually IN) lapped balsa, than on leather. The reason I think is that the particles are embedded in the balsa up to their necks, so to speak, reducing scratch depth. This of course only works if the abrasive is applied sparingly. If there is a coating, you get a slurry effect. I suspect the shape of the CBN crystal might work better than diamond when both are over applied, the way most folks do it, not sure. The fact is, most people put their abrasive on the wrong stuff, and put about 10x too much to get the fullest benefit, and then use too few laps. I don't seem to be able to "round the edge" with balsa, no matter how many hundreds of laps I use experimentally.

This from the guy who never has to re-hone his razors, because of his post-shave stropping on the balsa.

As a post finish treatment, the .1u diamond on balsa gives a pretty amazing edge. I am sure you can do even better than your recent results, if you try your CBN on lapped and stabilized balsa.

 

[kelbro]

I have to say that the .1 CBN feels a little better than the .1 diamond on my face. Both provide a very close shave with real staying power.

I have considered balsa for some time but my 5 or 6 leather paddles that I made with oak bed slats really work well.

 

[IMightBeWrong]

Where are you guys buying this .1 CBN? I already use a .1 Diamond Balsa based on Slash’s method but balsa is cheap enough to make a comparison worth it. I’m basically doing a synth rock progression up to an SG200 and then just doing a few passes on the .1 Diamond. I like it more than doing more work on my .5 diamond as the SG200 and just a few on the .1 gives me a less aggressive edge.

 

[kelbro]

I got mine from CKTG.

 

[IMightBeWrong]

I got mine from CKTG.

Thanks! Go figure, those guys have a lot of great stuff for Razor honing.

 

[IMightBeWrong]

Where are you guys buying this .1 CBN? I already use a .1 Diamond Balsa based on Slash’s method but balsa is cheap enough to make a comparison worth it. I’m basically doing a synth rock progression up to an SG200 and then just doing a few passes on the .1 Diamond. I like it more than doing more work on my .5 diamond as the SG200 and just a few on the .1 gives me a less aggressive edge.

Just going to amend this. Shaved once again off the .1 diamond using this method and I still feel it’s a bit too aggressive. Not as aggressive as the .5-.1 diamond progression, but still too aggressive. The edge basically wants to bite into my skin as soon as it makes contact lol so even with a very shallow angle it nicks me a lot. So I may try the .1 CBN though if it’s still too aggressive I’m going to just stop at .5 for a gentler shave.

 

[alpster]

....... This of course only works if the abrasive is applied sparingly. If there is a coating, you get a slurry effect. I suspect the shape of the CBN crystal might work better than diamond when both are over applied, the way most folks do it, not sure......

This is why I prefer diamond sprays over pastes. Easier for me to get a light even distribution of abrasives. I also choose balsa over leather for diamond stropping.

 

[mjclark]

.25u seems to be in sort of a sour spot. It just feels a little unkind to my face. .1u diamond ON LAPPED BALSA, however, feels silky smooth. So while I have not used CBN, I think the main thing is possibly the grit size, and not the material. Also, any very fine abrasive used as a post finish works better in (not on, but actually IN) lapped balsa, than on leather. The reason I think is that the particles are embedded in the balsa up to their necks, so to speak, reducing scratch depth. This of course only works if the abrasive is applied sparingly. If there is a coating, you get a slurry effect. I suspect the shape of the CBN crystal might work better than diamond when both are over applied, the way most folks do it, not sure. The fact is, most people put their abrasive on the wrong stuff, and put about 10x too much to get the fullest benefit, and then use too few laps. I don't seem to be able to "round the edge" with balsa, no matter how many hundreds of laps I use experimentally.

This from the guy who never has to re-hone his razors, because of his post-shave stropping on the balsa.

As a post finish treatment, the .1u diamond on balsa gives a pretty amazing edge. I am sure you can do even better than your recent results, if you try your CBN on lapped and stabilized balsa.

Honestly Mr McCoy I cannot thank you enough for this post and the suggestion to use balsa.

I got two bits of balsa, applying 0.25u diamond to one and 0.1u CBN to the other.

The diamond is a paste and the CBN an Emulsion so the balsa was quite thirsty for both of the then - I can see how sprays would be much more efficient in this context.
So the applications may have been too thick but the results are incredible!

I stropped my trusty ZY430+ on the 0.25u diamond, then on the plain balsa on the other side then kangaroo leather.
Then I took it to the 0.1u CBN, then plain balsa on the other side of that paddle then to the kangaroo leather again.

All I can say is wow wow wow!
If the CBN had given good results before it is most definitely optimised by the balsa.
It did seem to be slightly harsher than off the leather but noticeably sharper - which I wouldn't have believed possible.
Somehow the balsa has taken it from sharp to sharper than sharp.
It's stuff like this that makes me really love Badger&Blade and the great discussions we have here so thanks again!