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New bevel - wedge

I’m curious if there’s any hollow to the grinding as the pics make it look like there’s a bit. Usually a wedge has a very shallow hollow grind rather than a deep one like thinner Razors. Considering how high your bevel is coming up, especially considering that you used tape, I’m wondering if the grind will show why the edge grind is coming up so high from your hone.

When I look at it, it looks like a "true wedge" to me. I've taken some pics that will hopefully help
 

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IMightBeWrong

Loves a smelly brush
When I look at it, it looks like a "true wedge" to me. I've taken some pics that will hopefully help
Yes it does. In this case, your best bet may be to hone the whole thing without tape. A nice finishing stone could pretty much make a mirror out of it. Take the tape advice first, though.

I really hope it works out! If not, maybe buy a ZY on the Bay. Should make a decent, cheap starter.
 
Yes it does. In this case, your best bet may be to hone the whole thing without tape. A nice finishing stone could pretty much make a mirror out of it. Take the tape advice first, though.

I really hope it works out! If not, maybe buy a ZY on the Bay. Should make a decent, cheap starter.

Cheers, much appreciated!
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Wedges are not really the best type of razor for a beginner to hone. Not saying you can't do it, but you are taking a lot on your plate when you start with a wedge.

First, understand some things about wedges. This is the original type of grind for razors. With a true wedge, there is really no spine as such. It is just like the name implies, a wedge. In the old days, these were honed freehand, perhaps with the thumbnail used to check the angle. And so the main part of the razor was ground to have a basic bevel angle considerably smaller than the ideal honing angle. With a hollowground, there is a spine, and its thickness along with blade width determine the basic bevel angle, which is also the honing angle, since the spine sets the honing angle. So typically with a wedge you have to make up a little of the missing spine.

Ideally, one hones a wedge razor flat until it nearly has a proper bevel, and then elevates the back of the razor enough for a proper honing/bevel angle. So, you have essentially a compound bevel. Honing flat, perhaps with most of the pressure out toward the edge, removes overburden so that the actual shaving bevel is not as wide, and you are not dealing with the removal of so much steel to make the bevel meet within steel at an apex. This is a LOT of work and so it is seldom done. Unskilled hands can also screw up a perfectly good razor. This is really more a part of grinding the razor than user honing. So, more often the primary bevel is set with a layer of tape on the spine, and when that bevel is set, or nearly so, a secondary bevel is applied by adding another layer of tape. This secondary bevel should be small, and perhaps actually only involve the finisher or maybe a midrange stone, and not the typical 1k bevel setter. The idea is still to remove overburden and allow a very small secondary bevel to meet at an apex, and then bring it in with a finer stone or stones, or film. The secondary bevel ideally has an angle of around 17 degrees, but a slightly fatter angle can work very well IF the secondary bevel is small and the steel behind it is thin due to a small primary bevel angle. After all, I think a DE blade actually has a final bevel angle of around 20 degrees, but due to the thin body of the blade it still has tremendous cutting power.

You DON'T want the final bevel to be less than about 15 degrees! This will seldom be the case, but if it is, the edge will be extremely delicate if it even forms properly at all.

One of the major problems with using tape is controlling the bevel angle due to the tape being compressible, and wearing on the hone. I myself never use more than 2 layers of tape. Well actually I almost never use tape anyway, except for wedges. If the razor is so skinny that 2 layers won't elevate the back of the razor enough for a good bevel, I toss it, plain and simple, because it will never satisfy me. Seldom will you see this, but it is possible.

Tape must be applied carefully to a wedge! I lay the tape down sticky side up, and set the back of the razor exactly on the centerline of the tape strip, and then the edges of the tape extend the same distance down toward the edge. This is important, if you expect to see superior results. Misapplied tape will handicap you severely.

Many honers skip the compound bevel honing, and just apply a single bevel. I don't like this approach because the bevel flat will often be very wide, and you will be surprised how much harder it is to hone a wide bevel to a killer edge compared to a narrow one.

Eventually after much honing, you will find that the bevel has regressed deeply into the razor and the bevel strip will become wider. At this point it is often desireable to hone a primary bevel to remove overburden. IOW, instead of removing steel at the apex, the very edge, you remove steel from the root of the bevel, sort of erasing excess bevel width. This is common with vintage razors that have seen much honing and have lost as much as 1/4" of width. Then you start frresh with a nice skinny secondary bevel and you can just touch that up on your finisher for a few years.

Most wedges, and nearly all vintage wedges, have large smiles. The edge curves considerably. This adds another element to the honing. If you do not raise and lower the tang of the razor appropriately, you only hit part of the edge. The toe and heel will not make good contact with the hone. And so a technique called the "Rolling X Stroke" is used. Lay the razor on the hone. Gently press the heel onto the hone. Now gently press the toe onto the hone. This is how much you have to roll the tang up and down as you stroke it along the hone. More, and you increase the smile, making things even more difficult. Not enough, and the very tip of heel and/or toe get no action. Not the end of the world if the final 1/8" or even 1/4" of the razor doesn't shave, but ideally the entire edge will be shave ready when you are done.

So, now maybe you can see how wedges are different from hollowground razors, and how much more involved their honing is. This is largely why the hollowground razor was invented in the first place, to simplify honing. Nobody will fault you if you lay that one aside and work on a hollowground or two, first. They are much simpler. If you choose to go for it, then good luck. You can do it, it just won't be easy.

For heavy steel removal you definitely want a coarser hone in your arsenal. Start with about 600 grit. I often start at around 200 if a lot of steel has to come off. Sometimes much, much coarser. Coarse, fast stones of course can be a dangerous tool in unskilled hands, but still, I would start in at 600 to 1000 if I were you. Bring in the primary bevel at 1000, refine it a bit, then go a dozen laps at around 8k and then if it looks good under loupe or microscope, hit the finisher with an extra layer of tape.

For probably 95% of wedge razors, ignoring the bevel angle can still result in a usable edge. But knowing how to measure and calculate it definitely gives you an advantage. Know what you got. It will help.
 
I ended up with a couple of RenRen razors from Ebay that were mislabeled as ZY... when I sent them to Doc226 there was almost nothing he could do to set a proper bevel on them. If he cannot do it, I have to agree that these razor-shaped objects are not suitable for use.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
I ended up with a couple of RenRen razors from Ebay that were mislabeled as ZY... when I sent them to Doc226 there was almost nothing he could do to set a proper bevel on them. If he cannot do it, I have to agree that these razor-shaped objects are not suitable for use.

owch. That doesn't sound good.
 
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