10mm on the Radar

[Acmemfg]

Considering picking up a Colt Delta Elite 10mm. Just because.
What I know:
10mm is a very hard hitting cartridge. This is good.
Recoil is considerable. This is not a problem.
Don’t want a Glock. I have two.
Don’t want a Ruger..SR1911 or Revolver. I have a SR1911 and a GP100.
I know it will have Series 80 trigger. I’m good with that.

What I don’t know:
Is it EXACTLY the same size/dimensions as a Colt Govt. 1911?
What (if any) % of MIM parts are used?
Are most accessories like sights, grips, etc. interchangeable with the 1911 .45 platform?
Thanks in advance........

 

[OkieStubble]

A fellow officer and friend of mine just picked himself up a Glock 20. We will be heading out to shoot it next week during the holidays. 10mm is alot of fun to shoot but expensive. I know he is looking to reload and bring the price of plinking down. Is the Delta Elite still being produced?

 

[Acmemfg]

Yes. Not all that hard to find one either.

 

[Ad Astra]

A respectable cartridge. I'm curious, too.

I know Glocks are soul-less, but after shooting three .45s side by side one day - G30, Colt Commander and a parts 1911 - the G30 was softest shooting. So I'd lean toward that G20, myself, but I know the Delta is the racier beast.


AA

 

[Acmemfg]

A fellow officer and friend of mine just picked himself up a Glock 20. We will be heading out to shoot it next week during the holidays. 10mm is alot of fun to shoot but expensive. I know he is looking to reload and bring the price of plinking down. Is the Delta Elite still being produced?

I knew 10mm ammunition was spendy but not as much as I have discovered. That .40 S&W Glock 23 is looking to make much more sense.

 

[OkieStubble]

A respectable cartridge. I'm curious, too.

I know Glocks are soul-less, but after shooting three .45s side by side one day - G30, Colt Commander and a parts 1911 - the G30 was softest shooting. So I'd lean toward that G20, myself, but I know the Delta is the racier beast.
AA

And 15 rounds of 10mm in the magazine doesn't hurt.

I agree with you on Glock. People can say what they want about Glock, but it is one of the lightest, softest shooting, very accurate and most durable and dependable fighting pistol to be had.

It maybe ugly like a Warthog, but it's also rugged like a Warthog.

 

[OkieStubble]

I knew 10mm ammunition was spendy but not as much as I have discovered. That .40 S&W Glock 23 is looking to make much more sense.

Tell me about it. I almost choked on my spit when pricing a box of Buffalo Bore. I know he is looking for another barrel to shoot lead cast out of. I wonder how much of a price difference reloading would make say, over a 1000 rounds?

 

[jkingrph]

I have two stainless Gold Cup pistols. One in 10mm the other 45ACP. Dimensions are identical.

The 10mm is a more accurate shooter and can reach out hitting easier at longer ranges than the 45.

 

[noelekal]

OOOooo... get the Delta Elite!

I'm really enthused about the 10mm cartridge and also about the Colt Delta Elite.

I purchased a new Delta Elite in February of 2016. Have fired about 1200 rounds through it since. It's been great overall. Has given dependable function with every kind of "mild to wild" factory ammunition I've shot through it and works fine with some mild cast bullet handloads as well. Trigger's not quite up to personal standards yet. It's livable but a trigger job may be in order.

Dimensions are same as a Government Model.

I disdain MIM parts in guns, but resolved to compel myself to just ignore them with this pistol. From the internet: sear, disconnector, grip safety, and magazine catch are MIM. An engineering friend of mine who's a shooter says MIM has come a long way. He's annoyed if MIM is bashed. The factory-provided rubber wrap-around grips had to go in favor of wood stock panels. Rubber's an offense to the eye and changed the feel of the gun from the familiar "1911-feel" in my hand.

The 10mm cartridge is a victim of an internet forum generated reputation for heavy recoil. I don't know why. Perhaps recoil is "amplified" in order to make 10mm shooters appear to be more "he-man." 10mm felt recoil is really no different than the recoil generated by any full-power 230 grain .45 handload.

I did a "blind" test with my 1911-loving youngest son. One weekend when he was in we enjoyed a ".45 fest" at the local club range. After shooting a while I told him I wanted him to shoot a new 1911 gun I had acquired, but I wanted to hand it to him in a manner that he would first shoot it in a way in which he wouldn't see what it was. This was accomplished. The Delta Elite was loaded with the heavy Underwood 220 grain cast lead load. After he shot a magazine-full through it, he snorted: "Dad, you bought a stainless steel 1911!" Then he added: "It's trigger isn't so fine is it?" He still hadn't noticed that it was a 10mm. I had to tell him to examine the pistol more closely.

The lube Underwood uses smokes a bit. Son is firing the first magazine-full through the Delta Elite. He was not aware that he's shooting a Colt chambered for 10mm when this photo was snapped.


Chronograph tests had left me with the observation that the 10mm's recoil is overrated. My son was amused at the test and agreed that he couldn't tell the difference. This was after a morning of shooting his favorite 1911 guns with full-power 230 grain FMJ.

10mm recoil is easily managed in my opinion.

Some Test Results Over the Chronograph

Chronograph: Oehler Model 12
tested in 10-shot strings

I really like the look of the 180 grain bullet weight in the 10mm cartridge. I was interested in sampling the heaviest available bullets in the 10mm so ordered so ordered out some boxes of both Buffalo Bore and Underwood 220 grain loads. I've not tried any lighter weight bullets as I'm not so interested in their use.


Underwood 220 grain hard cast
MV 1128
ME 622
ES 73

Underwood 180 grain XTP
MV 1303
ME 679
ES 22

Great Lakes 180 grain XTP
MV 1145 FPS
ME 524 ft./lbs
ES 51 FPS

SIG Sauer 180 grain FMJ flat nose
MV 1246
ME 659
ES 61

Buffalo Bore 180 JHP
MV 1326
ME 702
ES 39

Buffalo Bore 220 grain hard cast
MV 1161
ME 659
ES 53

No real effort has yet been made to handload for the 10mm Auto. I made a start with old faithful Unique in two loadings, both mild.

175 grain cast truncated cone, 5.8 grains Unique, Remington 2 1/2 primers
MV 967
ME 363
ES 72

175 grain cast truncated cone, 6.3 grains Unique, Remington 2 1/2 primers
MV 1033
ME 415
ES 57

Both loads gave good function in the pistol, there not being any discernible difference in firing them.

Online research appears to show that Unique may be taken to 7.0 grains with 175-180 grain bullets, however I'm particularly looking for a mild to moderate cast bullet load. Unique is said by many to not be the most efficient powder for 10mm, but it should suit for my purposes.

Hey, check out the "field expedient" meat box used to catch 10mm cases so that so many wouldn't be lost.

 

[noelekal]

The Buffalo Bore 220 grain Hard Cast Load

I found this load to be unsatisfactory. Primers exhibited much flattening, the only load of the day to exhibit flattened primers. Far more concerning were the gross "smileys" found on the fired case heads. These were ugly indeed and gave every impression of a case at the point of failure. After firing five rounds, I stopped shooting these loads. I relish handloading a cartridge experimentally out to the ragged edge, but these loads frightened me off. It is apparent that the Colt barrel is not supporting the case head adequately for the pressures generated by this particular load. This load was the only one fired on velocity test day that exhibited case head distortion. I've never encountered such ugliness, not in my own pushing of .45 handloads in the 1911 gun, not in scary-looking cases found on the ground while scrounging range brass. The condition was so severe that I determined that case head failure was likely if firing continued. Relying solely on the brass case, unsupported by the firearm's chamber, to contain high pressure is a recipe for disaster, possibly wrecking pistol, magazine, or grips, not to mention hands and eyes.

Cases are ruined for reloading. No special "bulge buster" dies are going to "iron out" the damage to the integrity of these case heads even if they appear sized after running through a sizer die. I wouldn't trust 'em!

Recoil wasn't excessive and the Delta Elite didn't exhibit any cycling anomalies with this 220 grain Buffalo Bore load. The pistol behaved same as it did for every other factory load tested. While shooting it, one can readily feel a typical .45 caliber 1911 batter itself with a hot load and/or a weak recoil spring, even if the pistol successfully feeds the loads. I did not feel that the pistol was being hammered.

Some say that a heavier recoil spring will mitigate this Delta Elite issue, claiming that the gun is unlocking too early. I don't know all there to know about 1911 function, but can recognize an issue resulting from partially unsupported case. A heavier spring can't be a fix for a fundamental lack of case head support. I do not desire to run a heavier recoil spring. I'd rather discard the offending load.

Buffalo Bore uses a Colt Delta Elite as one of the three pistols tested with their 10mm loads and claims the loads are safe in the Delta Elite.

 

[noelekal]

Was denied outdoor shots because it was dark and rainy here on the day the photographs were made. Had three different light sources on this photo and it still was too dark. Should have adjusted the camera more.

The five cases and a loaded Buffalo Bore 220 grain cast lead round.


Now we move to the kitchen table in search of better light.

Top: Buffalo Bore 220 grain exhibit: Loaded round with a dab of lube poking its nose out of the case mouth, fired primer, and ugly fired case.
Bottom: Underwood 220 grain exhibit: Loaded round, fired primer (don't know why case rim appears shaved-seems to be an optical illusion), and normal-looking fired case.


Delta Elite's barrel as removed uncleaned from the gun after firing 75 rounds.


A Buffalo Bore 220 grain 10mm cartridge in chamber.


Another perspective of same.


An about worthless photo of a fired case from a Buffalo Bore 220 grain load. Camera refused to focus properly. I took several trying to get it to focus, but none turned out. Of course the fired case would not complete seat in the chamber. I had already put the pistol back together before I saw this bad photo.

 

[OkieStubble]

Great posts @noelekal, I learned alot.

 

[nortac]

Yes great post @noelekal , as always! I'd like to have both the Glock 20 and the Colt Delta Elite. My only 10 mm is a limited edition Ruger Blackhawk with 10mm and .38-40 cylinders from Buckeye Sports. It's been a long time since I shot it in either caliber.

 

[noelekal]

Thanks nortac. I'd love to have a Blackhawk 10mm/.38-40. That's a revolver that ought to become a high-dollar collector's item. I'd put it to work though if I had it. I love the obsolete ol' .38-40 too.

Have been long intrigued with the .40 bore. When I was young I acquired both a Winchester Model 1873 and a Colt Single Action Army in .38-40. In the late 1970s I was playing with .40 bullets, cranking the loading press and poking various .38-40 jacketed soft nose component bullets and cast lead bullets into .38-40 cases while fantasizing about a .40 auto pistol cartridge that would fit squarely in between the 9mm and .45 auto. The performance level of the 10mm was what I had in mind. A .40 automatic seems like such an obvious hole to fill in the line-up of handgun calibers.

Was tickled when that Bren Ten was introduced, but it proved to be still born. Then the .40 S&W came out, just a little less powerful than most 10mm loads. I felt like I had contributed some unspoken telepathic inspiration for both. Intended to acquire pistols in both 10mm and .40 S&W soon after they were introduced, but never got "a round tuit" until 2014 when a .40 S&W finally came to roost in the safe. The 10mm came a couple years later.

In the mid-1980s a fairly "nuclear-powered" .40 bore rifle was added, a Winchester Model 1895 .405 WCF. This took .40 bore (actually .412 in diameter and shoots .411 diameter .41 Magnum bullets perfectly) to a whole new level of short to medium range rifle effectiveness.

I'm still playing with the .38-40. The Colt has since retired from use with some of the "Elmer Keith" level experimental handloads created that were fully equal to the best 10mm loads. 173 grain Lyman cast lead bullet: 1211 fps from the 4 5/8-inch Colt and 1319 fps from a 7 1/2-inch Uberti single-action clone. The 1905 vintage Colt seems none the worse for the handloading abuse it sustained, but is now fed on a diet of minimum charges of Unique and cast lead bullets, same as the Winchester '73.

 

[OkieStubble]

Thanks nortac.

Lol'd. You're welcome.

 

[noelekal]

Sorry OkieStubble. I really did intend to include you in that "Thank You" as well. I just got distracted in considering all the goodness of nortac's .38-40/10mm convertible Blackhawk and failed to "mind my manners."

 

[OkieStubble]

Sorry OkieStubble. I really did intend to include you in that "Thank You" as well. I just got distracted in considering all the goodness of nortac's .38-40/10mm convertible Blackhawk and failed to "mind my manners."

Just messin' with ya.