Brush Chronicles #11: Vie-Long; El Caballo Español (The Spanish horse)

[TAP119]

I finally got around to writing about the Vie-Long. It worked very well with a hard soap like TOBS' Lavender but it's a bit too scritchy for my taste. The tips are very soft and the bristles have backbone but I still prefer my badger brushes. Handle is comfy, though.

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[El-a-Menthol]

Again mftoms59, thanks for helping me out.
Here is some before porn.

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It hasn't bloomed yet and, if I don't forget it, will also post a after picture of the brush in bloom.
It is really dense, so I don't know it that should affect when and how much it will bloom.

 

[mftoms59]

I finally got around to writing about the Vie-Long. It worked very well with a hard soap like TOBS' Lavender but it's a bit too scritchy for my taste. The tips are very soft and the bristles have backbone but I still prefer my badger brushes. Handle is comfy, though.

Thanks again for the advice.

They do require some patience, I'd recommend 10-12 Bowl Lathers and when applying lather to your face, use less pressure. These brushes do get softer and the scritch will relax, though they can take three weeks or longer.

Again mftoms59, thanks for helping me out.
Here is some before porn.

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View attachment 218867​

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It hasn't bloomed yet and, if I don't forget it, will also post a after picture of the brush in bloom.
It is really dense, so I don't know it that should affect when and how much it will bloom.

Nice looking Olive Wood, looks like the Mustard Yellow/Gold Color, That should develop a mid-size Bloom, ~60-65mm across the top if it's a 23mm knot, ~57-62mm for a 20mm. These are strictly educated Guesses based on my 20mm Natural Brown Hair Olive Wood @52mm loft.

 

[juban62]

Gentlemen,
I see from the G&C Catalog that the largest knot shown is a 23mm. Does anyone know if it is possible to order a horsie with a larger knot, like a 26 or 28mm?
Thanks!

 

[Balj86]

Nope! I asked the same question to Juan.

 

[Songwind]

My first Vie-Long (a 13800) should be in my mailbox today. I'm quite excited.

 

[Songwind]

The brush did indeed show up today. I gave it a vinegar soak and some cleaning lathers as suggested earlier in this thread, and used it tonight.

It was really a great experience. I love this brush already. You can read about it in my newbie journal if you're interested.

 

[mftoms59]

The brush did indeed show up today. I gave it a vinegar soak and some cleaning lathers as suggested earlier in this thread, and used it tonight.

It was really a great experience. I love this brush already. You can read about it in my newbie journal if you're interested.

Congratulations, I'm glad you're enjoying your V-L and I enjoyed your observations & photos concerning your Brush & Lather. I agree Face Lathering does produce a denser lather and your 13800 was built for that method of lathering, you'll find the scritch will relax after 2 or 3 weeks of regular use, thanks for your contribution to this thread.

 

[Songwind]

I'm really looking forward to what it will feel like then, because it's already pretty soft. And thank *you* for starting the thread and helping me get clued in to the horse hair brush.

 

[malocchio]

The brush did indeed show up today. I gave it a vinegar soak and some cleaning lathers as suggested earlier in this thread, and used it tonight.

It was really a great experience. I love this brush already. You can read about it in my newbie journal if you're interested.

.............nice write up in your journal...you will enjoy many great shaves with that combo...

 

[El-a-Menthol]

No doubt your will be very pleased with it!
They make the best horse hair brushes.
I hope they will offer more or all with natural/undyed hair in the future.
If I want horse then why would I want to confuse it with my badger brush?

 

[mftoms59]

No doubt your will be very pleased with it!
They make the best horse hair brushes.
I hope they will offer more or all with natural/undyed hair in the future.
If I want horse then why would I want to confuse it with my badger brush?

Any of the Horse Hair models can be ordered in the Natural Brown Hair but the Mane/Tail Ratio would only be 35/65, giving you a stiffer knot, not the 50/50 that is only available as a Banded knot.

 

[Oscroft]

I already have a 13060M set at the standard 55mm loft, which I like well enough.

But I want something smaller and scrubby, so I've just ordered a 13800M set at 48mm - getting it custom set will apparently only add 3 or 4 days to the delivery time, which is pretty good. I did consider getting a 50/50 one, but I really like the feel of the 35/65 mix.

I'll let you know what I think when it gets here!

 

[OldGreyGuy]

Just received the 13061S.

This is the same handle as the 13061M in un-bleached brown horse hair with 24mm knot set in a fan shape with a 50mm loft.

Really nice with Arko this morning to take away some of the scent, lathered well, slightly scritchier than I expected but I face lather with boars usually and it was certainly not a problem.

How long do these horse hair brushes take to break in?

 

[mftoms59]

OldGreyGuy, Less pressure will equal less scritch, I'd recommend bowl or palm lathers for the first ~7 shaves if it's too scritchy. The 50mm loft should keep it stiff enough for face lathering and with regular use it should soften noticeably after ~15-20 lathers.

The V-L Horses are affordable and with patience you can enjoy some very good performing brushes, after ~70 lathers my Natural Browns are almost as soft as my Shavemac Finest Brushes.

 

[OldGreyGuy]

OldGreyGuy, Less pressure will equal less scritch, I'd recommend bowl or palm lathers for the first ~7 shaves if it's too scritchy. The 50mm loft should keep it stiff enough for face lathering and with regular use it should soften noticeably after ~15-20 lathers.

The V-L Horses are affordable and with patience you can enjoy some very good performing brushes, after ~70 lathers my Natural Browns are almost as soft as my Shavemac Finest Brushes.

Thanks for the advice mftoms59, I may have to accelerate it in my rotation a bit more instead once every 7 days.

The amount of scritch really wasn't a problem, good exfoliation and a reminder that I am alive.

 

[Oscroft]

The V-L Horses are affordable and with patience you can enjoy some very good performing brushes, after ~70 lathers my Natural Browns are almost as soft as my Shavemac Finest Brushes.

I've got a couple of the natural brown brushes, and they've softened nicely with use - they feel pretty luxurious now.

 

[Phog Allen]

Hey chaps. I am still enamoured of the horse hair brushes but wanted to get just a bit more information before jumping on board. Brown vs the banded hair? If memory serves the brown is natural and the banded is bleached? Mixed mane and tail vs what? Is there a big difference between the mane and tail hair? I ask because I like a dense brush and have seen it said that horse hair may not necessarily lend itself to great density. Opinions?

Loft vs knot ratio. In badger hair I like about a ~24mm knot and good density. I feel backbone should be more related to hair stiffness than density. I LOVE the Savile Row 3824 and the Kent B&B limited edition because they are dense. Not necessarily because the hair has great stiffness. Does that make sense? Are the horse bristles always cut/trimmed to length or are they set to have the tips of the hair at the top? I suppose if trimmed this increases the scritch significantly. The one brush that everyone seems to point to as a great compromise between hair type, density, and loft is the Vie-Long 13061M. What is the main difference between it and a 13061? I assume hair type. Thanks and hope I did not get too far off the topic.

Cheers, Todd

 

[mftoms59]

Yes the Banded 50/50 (Mane/Tail) is bleached & dyed to look like Badger and the Natural Brown 35/65 (M/T) isn't bleached, Mane Hair provides softness & Tail is stiffer/coarser for backbone. The smaller knots (19, 20 & 21) aren't as dense as the 23 & 24mm and I prefer my lofts no higher than 50mm regardless of knot size since I primarily face lather, I'd put my Loft/Knot ratio @2.25 for knots of 19, 20 & 21. For a 23 or 24mm knot I'd set the loft @48mm for Banded & 50mm for the Natural Brown, giving the brush similar stiffness for each Hair Ratio, ie; 50/23 Natural would have similar stiffness to a 48/23 Banded, the tips of the Banded would be softer out of the box due to a larger percentage of Mane used in the Banded 50% vs. 35%.

Scritch of Horse Hair is normal due to cutting, and is proportional to the amount of pressure used with the brush. Scritch will relax/diminish with prolonged use of a Horse Hair, I always recommend building your first 7-10 lathers by palm or bowl lathering, personally I use an 8 oz Spice Mortar Bowl for all bowl lathers regardless of Brush hair Type. I find the textured bottom softens the tips, and changes the texture of the lather, which I find to be denser and creamy without added airiness. After ~4 years of Mortar Bowl usage I don't have any out of the ordinary wear on any of my brushes due to the textured bottom of the bowl.

I have a Natural Brown Horse and after ~70 lathers the tips are about as soft as my Shavemac Finest Badgers, my Banded Horse has ~175 lathers and luxurious is a fitting description. I do believe the lofts my be customized by trimming the tops and not resetting the knot. I had bought the cheapest Natural Brown, removed it fro the handle (PITA) and set it @44mm/20mm knot, that doubled the density, made it very stiff with minimal bloom. This was strictly a face lather/soap brush, and after 3 months of daily use the tips were soft with just a background scritch, and no loss of backbone.

The V-L 13061 is a Banded Horse with a 24mm knot, the 13061M is a Natural Brown with the same 24mm knot and the newest version, a 13061S is a Natural Brown 24mm knot with a Fan Shape, the other versions two are Bulb shaped lofts.

 

[Phog Allen]

Thank you so much for the superb information. I may have to try both a banded and natural at 23/24mm diameter set to your specs which make sense after reading your post. I can certainly live with a break in period. And what a great price on most of them.

Cheers, Todd