title pretty much sums it up... though opinions on the L1 base compared to various vintage razors are welcome as well.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Is the Blackland Sabre the only SS SE to use Gem blades?
- Thread starter awa54
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Not sure if there are any other currently manufactured stainless razors (in addition to the Sabre).
I only have the L2 baseplate and really like it - a lot.
I only have the L2 baseplate and really like it - a lot.
Well, the answer is "yes and no." Yes because there is the ATT G1. No because ATT discontinued the G1. But they're still out there. I have two: one modified to be an even better shaver, and one in stock condition.
Believe me when I say I'm not criticizing ATT. The original design was intended to match the performance of a Gem 1912, which it absolutely, amazingly does. A lot of people who shave Gem had a problem with the razor. Not so much a problem WITH the razor, but more that some folks couldn't get over the fact that a modern, all-stainless, billet CNC Gem razor would set them back $100. "Why, back in the day we used to get Gem razors as freebies!" which may be true but hearing it over and over must have kinda gotten under some skins a little. It would mine.
I get it. I've got some Gem razors that I paid between $1.00 and $3.00 for. Some of them shave OK, a couple of them are really quite good. But a modern redesign on a Gem razor is a special thing. Mostly it's special because of its "niche-y-ness": Gem is a niche of single edge; single edge is a niche of double edge; wet shaving is a niche of the overall men's grooming market. You get the idea. For a designer like Stan or Matt at ATT or Shane at Blackland, making money on their creativity also means creating things that lots of people will line up and shiv each other to get. Occasionally they'll rear back and toss out a quirky mind-child for the niche folks. When you see one, buy it.
Anybody ever makes an all-stainless slant copy of the Merkur "Super Slant" I will hit that thing like a starving shark in a kiddie pool.
Lots more people buying Vectors and Darts than Sabres, for instance -- which is why we'll probably never see an OC Sabre but we DO see an OC Vector. While I have some DE razors, they're almost all slants because that's what I like best. I'm also into single edge, so I have Gem and AC formats.
OK, waving the "personal opinion" flag:
If you're going to buy a Sabre, do yourself a favour. Buy it with both plates. It's worth the cost to have the flexibility. OH, heck yeah I get the cost factor. My wallet kinda runs outta oxygen when the price tag gets over about $100. Sabre with both plates is going to tag you for about $235. I had to debate the merits of it -- for three years! -- before I did it.
Finally, there have been other Gem style offerings. Rocnel had one a few years ago. There just aren't many modern razors for Gem. Partially that's because the vintage market was traditionally quite cheap. A lot of the moderns tend to ape the vintage in some way -- usually because there's only so many workable designs to use the blade
If you've shaved Gem in a decent vintage razor (for me an MMOC or Ever Ready LLC), or if you've used a modern interpretation like the PAA Starling V2, then you know that the first couple of shaves on a fresh Gem blade can be a little edgy. Some "cork" or "strop" the Gem blades, but I prefer not to mess with it. I guess you could say I "face-strop" my Gems. [grin] You may also have observed that along with the very sharp first two shaves, typically shaves 3 and 4 are very smooth and the real reason why you keep coming back to Gems. Shaves 5 and 6 are just OK as the edge fades and one starts to spend more time cleaning up than really shaving.
With the L1 plate, the Sabre delivers the smoothest first two shaves I've ever had from a Gem blade. It's like shaves 3 and 4 and you still have those coming! After the first two shaves with L1, it's really like most other Gem razors for me and the fifth and sixth can be an exercise in perseverance.
With the L2 plate, the first two shaves are still better but not as much better. Three and four are good as always, but the L2 shines on five and six which are now smooth and efficient. The next time I rotate the Sabre in I'll use L1 for the first three and L2 for the last three.
I recall Rocnel made a Gem razor a few years ago. I never had one; I heard they weren't that great. The G1 and the Sabre were the first I knew of to use a stud through the centre hole on the blade. That keeps the front to back distance shorter.
Aside from that, I've not seen much new coming out. I've been tempted to explore Direct Laser Metal Sintering, which is how we 3D print in metal, but that's crazy expensive when you're talking about a one-off razor. But how cool to have a sintered titanium razor?
O.H.
Believe me when I say I'm not criticizing ATT. The original design was intended to match the performance of a Gem 1912, which it absolutely, amazingly does. A lot of people who shave Gem had a problem with the razor. Not so much a problem WITH the razor, but more that some folks couldn't get over the fact that a modern, all-stainless, billet CNC Gem razor would set them back $100. "Why, back in the day we used to get Gem razors as freebies!" which may be true but hearing it over and over must have kinda gotten under some skins a little. It would mine.
I get it. I've got some Gem razors that I paid between $1.00 and $3.00 for. Some of them shave OK, a couple of them are really quite good. But a modern redesign on a Gem razor is a special thing. Mostly it's special because of its "niche-y-ness": Gem is a niche of single edge; single edge is a niche of double edge; wet shaving is a niche of the overall men's grooming market. You get the idea. For a designer like Stan or Matt at ATT or Shane at Blackland, making money on their creativity also means creating things that lots of people will line up and shiv each other to get. Occasionally they'll rear back and toss out a quirky mind-child for the niche folks. When you see one, buy it.
Anybody ever makes an all-stainless slant copy of the Merkur "Super Slant" I will hit that thing like a starving shark in a kiddie pool.
Lots more people buying Vectors and Darts than Sabres, for instance -- which is why we'll probably never see an OC Sabre but we DO see an OC Vector. While I have some DE razors, they're almost all slants because that's what I like best. I'm also into single edge, so I have Gem and AC formats.
OK, waving the "personal opinion" flag:
If you're going to buy a Sabre, do yourself a favour. Buy it with both plates. It's worth the cost to have the flexibility. OH, heck yeah I get the cost factor. My wallet kinda runs outta oxygen when the price tag gets over about $100. Sabre with both plates is going to tag you for about $235. I had to debate the merits of it -- for three years! -- before I did it.
Finally, there have been other Gem style offerings. Rocnel had one a few years ago. There just aren't many modern razors for Gem. Partially that's because the vintage market was traditionally quite cheap. A lot of the moderns tend to ape the vintage in some way -- usually because there's only so many workable designs to use the blade
If you've shaved Gem in a decent vintage razor (for me an MMOC or Ever Ready LLC), or if you've used a modern interpretation like the PAA Starling V2, then you know that the first couple of shaves on a fresh Gem blade can be a little edgy. Some "cork" or "strop" the Gem blades, but I prefer not to mess with it. I guess you could say I "face-strop" my Gems. [grin] You may also have observed that along with the very sharp first two shaves, typically shaves 3 and 4 are very smooth and the real reason why you keep coming back to Gems. Shaves 5 and 6 are just OK as the edge fades and one starts to spend more time cleaning up than really shaving.
With the L1 plate, the Sabre delivers the smoothest first two shaves I've ever had from a Gem blade. It's like shaves 3 and 4 and you still have those coming! After the first two shaves with L1, it's really like most other Gem razors for me and the fifth and sixth can be an exercise in perseverance.
With the L2 plate, the first two shaves are still better but not as much better. Three and four are good as always, but the L2 shines on five and six which are now smooth and efficient. The next time I rotate the Sabre in I'll use L1 for the first three and L2 for the last three.
I recall Rocnel made a Gem razor a few years ago. I never had one; I heard they weren't that great. The G1 and the Sabre were the first I knew of to use a stud through the centre hole on the blade. That keeps the front to back distance shorter.
Aside from that, I've not seen much new coming out. I've been tempted to explore Direct Laser Metal Sintering, which is how we 3D print in metal, but that's crazy expensive when you're talking about a one-off razor. But how cool to have a sintered titanium razor?
O.H.
Currently, yes. As mentioned above, the ATT G1 and Rocnel are the only other modern SS GEM razors, but are not in production. Phoenix currently makes the Starling aluminum GEM razor which is the best bang for the buck in terms of modern GEMs.
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- #5
Thanks for the in-depth and difinitive replies!
I'm on my third shave with a Gem Junior, I'd never used a gem blade for anything aside from paint scraping or box cutting before last week, but so far it seems promising, maybe even better than injector SEs...
I don't think I'll jump in to the tune of +/-$200 just yet, but if Gem SE sticks it'll be hard to resist an eventual Sabre purchase.
Though there's a clean looking MMOC on its way to me, who knows I might even survive without a modern SE?
I'm on my third shave with a Gem Junior, I'd never used a gem blade for anything aside from paint scraping or box cutting before last week, but so far it seems promising, maybe even better than injector SEs...
I don't think I'll jump in to the tune of +/-$200 just yet, but if Gem SE sticks it'll be hard to resist an eventual Sabre purchase.
Though there's a clean looking MMOC on its way to me, who knows I might even survive without a modern SE?
I used my PAA Starling on about half of my shave days this past SeEptember, and for the money, I like it better than all the Gems in my collection (I have about 8 different Gems). I am yet to try the Sabre because I am on a purchase sabbatical this year - maybe next year if I do not re-up, or else in 2022.
The Starling V2 was a revelation to me at the time. With the SB plate it's like just about every other Gem razor for me. With the OC plate it was the first Gem razor I ever used that could get me to a BBS. I was a lot happier with the thing after I put an ATT Kronos handle on it -- and lately a WCS 84S -- because I like a little mass.
The Starling is a good deal, when you can find it in stock. However, though it's better for me it still struggles much past four shaves on a blade. I have a couple of areas that either get a nice smooth cut from a fresh blade or they take all kinds of cleanup from a blade that's fading.
If the only thing you would buy a Sabre for is to get those last two shaves, well, I won't criticize. After all, you're going from four shaves on a blade ($0.125 per shave) to six ($0.0833 per shave) which is a significant savings. [grin] But if you're looking for a well-made razor that doesn't leave you gritting your teeth while grinding through a tough patch, then I'd suggest the Sabre.
Spending three years talking myself repeatedly into and out of it made me glad to finally just do it so I could be done with the drama.
O.H.
The Starling is a good deal, when you can find it in stock. However, though it's better for me it still struggles much past four shaves on a blade. I have a couple of areas that either get a nice smooth cut from a fresh blade or they take all kinds of cleanup from a blade that's fading.
If the only thing you would buy a Sabre for is to get those last two shaves, well, I won't criticize. After all, you're going from four shaves on a blade ($0.125 per shave) to six ($0.0833 per shave) which is a significant savings. [grin] But if you're looking for a well-made razor that doesn't leave you gritting your teeth while grinding through a tough patch, then I'd suggest the Sabre.
Spending three years talking myself repeatedly into and out of it made me glad to finally just do it so I could be done with the drama.
O.H.
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