The Summer of Semogue

[TBoner]

I also find the SOC boar too dense. It is slower to build lather and has less flow through. That's the reason I moved away from my TSN LE 2019 boar, too. For me, flow through is right up there with face feel (mild scrub and zero scritch) in terms of top desirable brush traits.

Good to know. I can see it. The Torga is very dense, too, and if the hairs were 5mm longer, I can see it being too much. I have the 1470 up again tomorrow, and I think I prefer its slightly smaller knot diameter and lesser density. It makes and holds so much lather for such a small boar. And the flow-through is incredible. I value flow a lot, which is why I have gone away from badgers for the most part.

 

[Frank Shaves]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by flow-through, @TBoner. I want to make sure I understand.

 

[TBoner]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by flow-through, @TBoner. I want to make sure I understand.

For me, flow-through is the way a brush allows water and soap to mix and then releases the resulting lather. I have a Duke 3 in Best that I am going to part with. It has backbone for days and soft tips and is otherwise a great brush. But, for my taste, it doesn't have enough flow. Water gets buried deep in the knot and never mixes with soap. Lather hides in all that density and is reluctant to get out of the knot and onto the face. At the end of a shave, when I gently squeeze the knot, some well-mixed lather comes out, along with some runny, watery mix from the deepest recesses. It's a fine brush, but just not what I like.

My Semogue 1470 made a similarly huge volume of lather today, but it was homogenous, perfectly mixed, and it released to my face without any issue. No leftover runny water/cream in the knot. Fantastic.

 

[TBoner]

I can think of one: the 2015 HD (high-density 2-band finest badger) - 22 mm of more sublime-ness. One of Semogue's masterpieces and (for reasons I do not fully understand) rarely mentioned - I suspect a result of the market's shift to larger badgers.

It's on my radar. My concerns are whether the tips would be soft enough and whether the brush would release latehr better than some other 2-bands I have used.

 

[Sotiris_A]

Good to know. I can see it. The Torga is very dense, too, and if the hairs were 5mm longer, I can see it being too much. I have the 1470 up again tomorrow, and I think I prefer its slightly smaller knot diameter and lesser density. It makes and holds so much lather for such a small boar. And the flow-through is incredible. I value flow a lot, which is why I have gone away from badgers for the most part.

I wish I were in the US so that I could send you mine for science purposes

Great stuff! This thread is very informative for the potential buyer and a great read.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by flow-through, @TBoner. I want to make sure I understand.

I will attempt to give some definition and thoughts. In my understanding, flow-through is the ability of a brush to release lather stored inside the knot.

Lather is created on the tips, but it is also built and mixed with water inside the knot. Furthermore, with more action, there is a tendency of the lather to get further inside. This is affected by the backbone, the pressure the user applies and the type of motion (swirls or painting motion). A denser brush is shy in releasing lather. For example, my Simpsons Chubby 1 or Classic 2, even though they have medium-small knots by today's standards, they always have 0.5-1 pass worth of lather inside and you can only get it by sqeezing the knot. Furthermore, as @TBoner says above, it is not always mixed. To compensate that, you can load more soap and overload the brush with lather. Nonetheless, in addition to wasting soap, this either leads to thicker lather or requires you to spend more time adding water to reach the desired consistency.

For me, flow-through is the way a brush allows water and soap to mix and then releases the resulting lather. I have a Duke 3 in Best that I am going to part with. It has backbone for days and soft tips and is otherwise a great brush. But, for my taste, it doesn't have enough flow. Water gets buried deep in the knot and never mixes with soap. Lather hides in all that density and is reluctant to get out of the knot and onto the face. At the end of a shave, when I gently squeeze the knot, some well-mixed lather comes out, along with some runny, watery mix from the deepest recesses. It's a fine brush, but just not what I like.

My Semogue 1470 made a similarly huge volume of lather today, but it was homogenous, perfectly mixed, and it released to my face without any issue. No leftover runny water/cream in the knot. Fantastic.

I get an effect similar to what you describe about the duke from both my SOC boar copies.

 

[Frank Shaves]

For me, flow-through is the way a brush allows water and soap to mix and then releases the resulting lather. I have a Duke 3 in Best that I am going to part with. It has backbone for days and soft tips and is otherwise a great brush. But, for my taste, it doesn't have enough flow. Water gets buried deep in the knot and never mixes with soap. Lather hides in all that density and is reluctant to get out of the knot and onto the face. At the end of a shave, when I gently squeeze the knot, some well-mixed lather comes out, along with some runny, watery mix from the deepest recesses. It's a fine brush, but just not what I like.

My Semogue 1470 made a similarly huge volume of lather today, but it was homogenous, perfectly mixed, and it released to my face without any issue. No leftover runny water/cream in the knot. Fantastic.

Great explanation! I have definitely experienced this, but I will need to pay more attention to it going forward.

 

[shaveSymptomatic]

You guys made me get a 1250 and an 1800. Thought about the 1470 as well, but I don't like the handle and I already have a 610

 

[TBoner]

Yeah, if you already have a 610, the 1470 is redundant. I didn't know I'd like the handle, but it works well.

Now, the thing is, if you like the 610, the 620 is different but also very good and distinctive.

 

[shaveSymptomatic]

Yeah, if you already have a 610, the 1470 is redundant. I didn't know I'd like the handle, but it works well.

Now, the thing is, if you like the 610, the 620 is different but also very good and distinctive.

haha stop!

In all seriousness, I think I'm all set with brushes. Might pickup a synthetic paladin but that's about it.

 

[SharpieB]

Great thread! I am going to order a 1250 and 1800 ASAP.

I have a Pharos C3 synthetic that is an excellent brush and I have another Pharos in black horsehair coming later this week.

Curious as to why there is very little mention in this thread (or on B&B in general) of synthetic and horsehair Semogues...

 

[shaveSymptomatic]

Great thread! I am going to order a 1250 and 1800 ASAP.

I have a Pharos C3 synthetic that is an excellent brush and I have another Pharos in black horsehair coming later this week.

Curious as to why there is very little mention in this thread (or on B&B in general) of synthetic and horsehair Semogues...

Didn't know semogue made either synths or horse. I have a Zenith horse and it's so good that I don't dare try a horse from another brand. Please let us know how you end up liking the Semogue horse.

 

[TBoner]

I have never used a Semogue synth nor a horse. In fact, my horse experience is limited to one Vie Long that I tried maybe 8 or so years ago. I admit I've eyed the fan-shaped white Epsilon knots, but it sounds as though they may have more density and backbone than I need.

 

[SharpieB]

Didn't know semogue made either synths or horse. I have a Zenith horse and it's so good that I don't dare try a horse from another brand. Please let us know how you end up liking the Semogue horse.

Will do. It should be arriving from Portugal any day.

 

[TBoner]

Well, since they're all still around, I keep pulling these out one by one for additional use. The 620 was up today. I hadn't used it in a month or more, so I let it soak a few extra minutes. I find that a boar that has sat unused for more than a week or two benefits from soaking.

That little scrubby knot took a 25-second load from my homemade soap and turned it into a mountain of ThickSlick lather, enough for 4 passes if I'd needed them. Face feel was, of course, fantastic. The difference between this and the 1470/610 knot is that this has become pretty plush after 30+ lathers, softening considerably despite its once-stiff bristles. The 610 and 1470 have opened up, the tips becoming softer, but the knot itself is still very firm. I get plenty of scrub from the 620, but not quite as much as from the 610/1470. I like them both.

I haven't used the 1800 in a few weeks, either. Maybe I'll give it a spin tomorrow.

 

[TBoner]

Went with the 610 instead. No regrets. Lather was stellar and plentiful. It hasn't broken in as much as the 1470, but the brush is really coming along. I did get the 1800 out to use a couple of times this week. Tomorrow it gets a go. I know I'll enjoy it. At this point, the only Semogue boar that I just haven't enjoyed is the 830. Maybe it would be better with more break-in time, but it's a softer boar than I'd prefer. The others are all really, really good. Omegas are great, too, and I'm not quite ready to part with my Omega #10005, but I've come to like the thinner-shafted Semogue hair. Omegas need more break-in before they stop eating lather.

 

[TBoner]

The 1800 was as good as I remembered this morning. It was a touch softer than I recalled, albeit still clearly a boar. I had a wonderful lather, and I must say the second and third passes do release a bit more easily from the 55mm lofts than the 50mm. I will have to verify that with a use of the 1250 tomorrow. That will also allow me to revisit how exactly the 1250 and 1800 compare. My previous notes indicated maybe a touch more backbone in the 1800, but as I said, it was softer than expected, so we shall see.

I think if you had the 1250, the 1800, and the 1470, you'd have about all the variety you could ask for in feel and backbone.

 

[nemo]

1470 today ... I do prefer the undyed bristles

 

[TBoner]

1470 today ... I do prefer the undyed bristles

Me, too. And the 1250 today was really quite good. I think it feels fuller than the 1800, and it has greater lather capacity at this stage of its life. Unreal lather capacity, truthfully. When I first picked up boars about 11 years ago, I thought boar knots had to be big - Omega Pro 49 or the like - to hold enough lather. I still enjoy a big, plush boar now and then, but at some point, I realized that with as much water as boar bristles soak up, using those pro-size knots requires more careful management of water and loading. They can hold a ton of lather, though. Still, even when I was learning straights and shaving three passes plus touchup and then hitting the back of my neck with a cartridge, I didn't use as much lather as a 22mm Semogue knot produced today.

The undyed bristles suit my aesthetic preference (although the dyed ones are no more artificially colored than the 2-band badgers being sold these days). Given that the 1250 holds more lather than the 1800 (and for that matter, the 1470/610 knot seems to hold more than the 620), it's a certified keeper.

The extensive use of boar over these last months has really been a joy to me. My first brush was a VDH boar. And then, too, there's something elemental about the inexpensive everyman tool that just works. Using boar almost exclusively has reset the simple pleasure of wetshaving for me.

After using all of these Semogues, I think I could settle down with any of them. I've tried ranking different traits, and I'll list them, but there's an intangible piece to brush selection, at least for me. And I've settled on the ones that will stay. As my enjoyment of the morning shave has increased with the use of basic tools, I'm ready to revert to minimalism. These lists are Greatest--->Least

Softness: 830, 2000, 1250, 620, 1800, 1470, 610, Torga
Backbone: 1470, 610, Torga, 1250, 1800, 620, 2000, 830
Lather capacity: 2000, Torga, 1250, 1470, 1800, 620, 610 (this may be due to needing add'l break-in), 830
Ergonomics: 1250/1800, 2000, 1470, 830, 620/610, Torga
Aesthetics: 1250, 1470, 2000, 610, 1800, 830, 620, Torga

The last two are somewhat subjective as categories, I guess, as the Torga handle is quite comfortable for a lot of guys. It's fine for me, as are all of these, but it's not as intuitive as the SOC/1305/1250 shape.

As I said, for me, some brushes just strike a chord, and the ones I find myself wanting to reach for most often are the 1250 and the 1470. Those two are going into a rotation with my Omega 10005 and 11137. Four wooden-handled boars. I may keep the 2000 and an Omega Pro around for the occasional dalliance. I may not. Some might say I didn't give the 830 a fair shake, and maybe that's true. I don't know. Add it to the list of things I don't know.

I do know what I like: stuff that works.

.

 

[Sotiris_A]

Me, too. And the 1250 today was really quite good. I think it feels fuller than the 1800, and it has greater lather capacity at this stage of its life. Unreal lather capacity, truthfully. When I first picked up boars about 11 years ago, I thought boar knots had to be big - Omega Pro 49 or the like - to hold enough lather. I still enjoy a big, plush boar now and then, but at some point, I realized that with as much water as boar bristles soak up, using those pro-size knots requires more careful management of water and loading. They can hold a ton of lather, though. Still, even when I was learning straights and shaving three passes plus touchup and then hitting the back of my neck with a cartridge, I didn't use as much lather as a 22mm Semogue knot produced today.

The undyed bristles suit my aesthetic preference (although the dyed ones are no more artificially colored than the 2-band badgers being sold these days). Given that the 1250 holds more lather than the 1800 (and for that matter, the 1470/610 knot seems to hold more than the 620), it's a certified keeper.

The extensive use of boar over these last months has really been a joy to me. My first brush was a VDH boar. And then, too, there's something elemental about the inexpensive everyman tool that just works. Using boar almost exclusively has reset the simple pleasure of wetshaving for me.

After using all of these Semogues, I think I could settle down with any of them. I've tried ranking different traits, and I'll list them, but there's an intangible piece to brush selection, at least for me. And I've settled on the ones that will stay. As my enjoyment of the morning shave has increased with the use of basic tools, I'm ready to revert to minimalism. These lists are Greatest--->Least

Softness: 830, 2000, 1250, 620, 1800, 1470, 610, Torga
Backbone: 1470, 610, Torga, 1250, 1800, 620, 2000, 830
Lather capacity: 2000, Torga, 1250, 1470, 1800, 620, 610 (this may be due to needing add'l break-in), 830
Ergonomics: 1250/1800, 2000, 1470, 830, 620/610, Torga
Aesthetics: 1250, 1470, 2000, 610, 1800, 830, 620, Torga

The last two are somewhat subjective as categories, I guess, as the Torga handle is quite comfortable for a lot of guys. It's fine for me, as are all of these, but it's not as intuitive as the SOC/1305/1250 shape.

As I said, for me, some brushes just strike a chord, and the ones I find myself wanting to reach for most often are the 1250 and the 1470. Those two are going into a rotation with my Omega 10005 and 11137. Four wooden-handled boars. I may keep the 2000 and an Omega Pro around for the occasional dalliance. I may not. Some might say I didn't give the 830 a fair shake, and maybe that's true. I don't know. Add it to the list of things I don't know.

I do know what I like: stuff that works.

.

Great review! You spared me from wondering what would it be like to have a 1800.

This was a fun experiment to follow and it's great that you are settling down to your favorites.

Happy shaves!

 

[Xirafakis]

For me, flow-through is the way a brush allows water and soap to mix and then releases the resulting lather. I have a Duke 3 in Best that I am going to part with. It has backbone for days and soft tips and is otherwise a great brush. But, for my taste, it doesn't have enough flow. Water gets buried deep in the knot and never mixes with soap. Lather hides in all that density and is reluctant to get out of the knot and onto the face. At the end of a shave, when I gently squeeze the knot, some well-mixed lather comes out, along with some runny, watery mix from the deepest recesses. It's a fine brush, but just not what I like.

My Semogue 1470 made a similarly huge volume of lather today, but it was homogenous, perfectly mixed, and it released to my face without any issue. No leftover runny water/cream in the knot. Fantastic.

My Semogue 2 band has an amazing flow. Like a synthie. But it takes quite a few shaves to break it in.