Semogue Torga/Galahad Boar Hair Grade?

[energyloop]

The hair grades on the Torga/Galahads are listed as Extra IT/Premium/Premium IT which aren't shared by any of their other brushes, are they significantly different from the regular line, or how do they actually feel like?

I've finished collecting pretty much all the hair grade/loft variations of the older Semogue regular production boar brushes (Extra/Best/Premium/Special in 50/55 etc) but the new brushes are a complete mystery to me. I wouldn't mind eventually pulling several triggers to round off the collection but does anyone have an idea of how they compare to the older listed hair grades?

 

[TBoner]

I have the Torga C5 boar. It is listed as "Premium." I've assumed for ages the IT refers to the sketch on the bristles, so for instance the 1305 and 830 are Premium IT, and I am guessing this is the same grade of boar as the Torga C5.

That said, the Torga is denser than any Semogue boars I have used except the 2009 LE, and it feels sort of like the hair tips of the 610/1470, but it is taking longer to split than those, like my 830 is.

All that to say, I think the grade of hair matters in context of other factors like loft, knot size, and density. The Torga is a monster brush, though, and held 4-5 passes of lather for me today. I'm still considering selling it due to the handle, but it is a really scrubby wall of boar with very soft tips, even when about 1/3-1/2 of them haven't split.

 

[energyloop]

I've assumed for ages the IT refers to the sketch on the bristles, so for instance the 1305 and 830 are Premium IT, and I am guessing this is the same grade of boar as the Torga C5.

What's throwing me off is that on Portuguese Factory's site the older banded boars (620, 1800, 1305, 830) are listed as Extra/Premium IB instead of IT which is adding a new layer of confusion to the grading system.

But if it really feels the same as Best I might give the range a miss, I love Semogue boars to death but my OCD is screaming over the stark difference in look when standing next to the regular handles.

 

[old_school]

My C3 is like the 1438 I recently PIF'ed. Which is now called Extra IB. Wasn't that Extra75% previously?

Regarding IT;

Yeah, no, sort of.

DuckDuckGo this -> Semogue Boar Grades. Likely the first hit will be a lengthy, if old (2012), discussion of precisely your question on another shaving forum with these initials TSN. Of course links to competitors are verboten lest thou shalt get thine knuckles wrapped by Sister Mary Elephant.

IT is new, and quoting Paula at Portuguese Factory, "IT" is the acronym for "Imitação Texugo". Translating into english,
it means "Imitation Badger". That's the designation Semogue now applies to it's tinged boar bristle."

Ok if I wasn't a monolingual boob I might be able to get a better explanation. I ordered one anyway. Will report back when it arrives.

 

[energyloop]

My C3 is like the 1438 I recently PIF'ed. Which is now called Extra IB. Wasn't that Extra75% previously?

Regarding IT;

Indeed it is!

I had a second look at the brush listings, and to my surprise, nearly of them are Extra now! Best/Super is Extra, and Premium is now Extra Premium! I'm even more curious if the brushes share the same bristle now. Perhaps an email to Paula is necessary to clear my doubt on the Premium on the new series.

And THANK YOU for the IB/IT clarification. That's one less thing keeping me up at night!

 

[Dave-the-rave]

The Portuguese Factories listing are all over the place eg they have the 1250 described as extra and further down it says Premium. Before deciding which Semogues to buy I cross compared with other sites for hair information. The Factory is confusing and unclear to say the least. They also seem to mix up IT and IB, maybe because they cross from Portuguese to English. No idea.

 

[DarkSpy]

IT (Imitação Texugo) == IB (Imitation Badger)

Same thing but one is Portuguese the other is in English.

They changed the naming of the board grades but they should be the same thing.
So, for example, Torga-C3 Cerda Extra IT is the same as the 620 Extra 75% Tops (if I can remember correctly).
1305/830 is now Premium IT.
I suspect the SOC Boar is now branded as Premium (like the Torga-C5).
Then there's the Extra that should be the previous 90% Tops.

But this is me looking at the current lineup and previous lineup (now called Hereditas) and trying to make sense of things.

 

[mata_66]

I took my time to check every Semogue boar brush listed on the "Portuguese Factory" shop and compare the specs of the old "Excelsior" line with the new "Hereditas".

Either the shop has messed with the specs or Semogue changed the knots of some iconic models.
The Best 90% tops are the most affected with the change while the "humble" wooden "1250" made it to the big league. The "1800" now seems to share the same hair grade with the "620" and "1438".

This is the new 2020 line:

The new Galahad C3 (unique case) is sold with both "Premium" and "Premium IB" (imitation badger) hair.

 

[energyloop]

I took my time to check every Semogue boar brush listed on the "Portuguese Factory" shop and compare the specs of the old "Excelsior" line with the new "Hereditas".

View attachment 1155474
Either the shop has messed with the specs or Semogue changed the knots of some iconic models.
The Best 90% tops are the most affected with the change while the "humble" wooden "1250" made it to the big league. The "1800" now seems to share the same hair grade with the "620" and "1438".

This is the new 2020 line:
View attachment 1155476
The new Galahad C3 (unique case) is sold with both "Premium" and "Premium IB" (imitation badger) hair.

Thanks for compiling all that information into a table.

Since making this post I've added a couple of Semogues in the new Extra, Extra IT, and Premium grades to the den.

The new Extra IT feels similar to my Excelsior 620 but isn't as soft as my Excelsior 1800.

The new Premium feels fairly similar to my Excelsior-era SOC and shares the compete lack of black hairs in the knot, but what's strange is the new Extra feels completely similar down to the scritch. Eyes closed with a gun to my head I can't tell the difference between the new Extra and new Premium by touch or face feel.

The wet feel of my Excelsior Best and Premium 90%s are still significantly softer and slipperier than the new Extra or Premium, possibly due to differences in hair batch processing, but I have an inkling that Semogue has been slowly easing off on the bleaching on their boars a teeny bit over the years when I put my purchases over the past decade in a row. This makes me want to baby my Excelsiors even more, seeing which as they might be unobtanium now.

 

[Slanterino]

What's the difference between the banded and full blonde versions?

 

[mata_66]

I'm just speculating because, out of the new Semogues, I only have the Torga C5

The new Extra IT feels similar to my Excelsior 620 but isn't as soft as my Excelsior 1800.

Could it be because the 620's loft is set at 50mm and the 1800's loft at 55mm?

The new Premium feels fairly similar to my Excelsior-era SOC and shares the compete lack of black hairs in the knot, but what's strange is the new Extra feels completely similar down to the scritch. Eyes closed with a gun to my head I can't tell the difference between the new Extra and new Premium by touch or face feel.

You are not alone, many have compared the new Torga C3 to the old 620 and the C5 (Premium) to the 610 (Extra). I own/owned several Semogues and I also find the new "Premium" similar to the SOC (mine is an old one with a cherry handle) although not the same. I would say it's like the old 610 with the density of the SOC.

 

[energyloop]

Could it be because the 620's loft is set at 50mm and the 1800's loft at 55mm?

To clarify, I refer solely to the softness of the bristles and not the backbone, my Excelsior 1800 is a touch softer than my Excelsior 620 or Torga C3, probably due to the Premium 90%.

You are not alone, many have compared the new Torga C3 to the old 620 and the C5 (Premium) to the 610 (Extra). I own/owned several Semogues and I also find the new "Premium" similar to the SOC (mine is an old one with a cherry handle) although not the same. I would say it's like the old 610 with the density of the SOC.

I'm thankful I'm not alone, but truth be told I'm disappointed if there really is a complete overhaul in the hair grade processing. The qualities of the old white Best is near and dear to me.

 

[mata_66]

To clarify, I refer solely to the softness of the bristles and not the backbone, my Excelsior 1800 is a touch softer than my Excelsior 620 or Torga C3, probably due to the Premium 90%.

I'm thankful I'm not alone, but truth be told I'm disappointed if there really is a complete overhaul in the hair grade processing. The qualities of the old white Best is near and dear to me.

My bad, I understood you were referring to the Hereditas 1800. Yes the Excelsior was softer due to the Premium 90% hair in the mix. I believe, but I have no information, there is a complete overhaul in Semogue hair grade processing. As far as the old "Best" grade, time will tell (as soon a buyer will come out and review it) if the new Hereditas 1470 compares with the old 610/820 etc. I also liked the Best grade the most, the Premium 90% was disappointing in my book because after 45-50 uses it became so floppy to be unusable.

 

[mata_66]

What's the difference between the banded and full blonde versions?

In my past experience, apart from the look, banded are softer from the start and feature less backbone. But it was also due to different hair grade (Best 90% Vs. Extra 75%). I had the 610 and 620, apart from the band they were identical in look but behaved differently.
I don't have a clue yet with the new grades: 610 and 620 now have both a "Extra" hair grade with the latter banded so it may well be just an aesthetical difference.

 

[TBoner]

This is interesting. I owned an 820 and a 610 years back, in addition to a 2000 and a 1250. These would all have been Excelsior brushes. I now have Hereditas versions of the 610, 620, and 1800, plus the C5. I don't recall my past experiences well enough to offer judgment, but I can say that my 1800 is tremendous and does not feel the least bit floppy, at about 30 lathers or so. The 610 has taken a long time breaking in, and some tips still haven't split, a feature it shares with my C5. I had the 2009 LE that was a precursor to the SOC (i.e., Premium) and sold it because the tips just wouldn't split. I wonder if there is indeed a change in hair treatment resulting in these slightly slick-feeling tips that split very slowly. I will have to pull out all of my Semogues tonight and run them through their paces once more over the next week or two. I have been trying to get excited about badger and am hitting a wall. I enjoy all of my boars, even if they're a bit more work.

Edited to Add: You know, I have a current 1470, too, which is now the only brush listed as "Best." It broke in far more quickly than the 610, which previously would have been an identical knot, if I'm not mistaken. It performs unbelievably well and has perfectly split tips, great backbone, excellent lather capacity...kinda want to buy a half dozen of them in case the hair grade has changed in the 610 and might change in the 1470.

 

[mata_66]

This is interesting. I owned an 820 and a 610 years back, in addition to a 2000 and a 1250. These would all have been Excelsior brushes. I now have Hereditas versions of the 610, 620, and 1800, plus the C5. I don't recall my past experiences well enough to offer judgment, but I can say that my 1800 is tremendous and does not feel the least bit floppy, at about 30 lathers or so. The 610 has taken a long time breaking in, and some tips still haven't split, a feature it shares with my C5. I had the 2009 LE that was a precursor to the SOC (i.e., Premium) and sold it because the tips just wouldn't split. I wonder if there is indeed a change in hair treatment resulting in these slightly slick-feeling tips that split very slowly. I will have to pull out all of my Semogues tonight and run them through their paces once more over the next week or two. I have been trying to get excited about badger and am hitting a wall. I enjoy all of my boars, even if they're a bit more work.

Edited to Add: You know, I have a current 1470, too, which is now the only brush listed as "Best." It broke in far more quickly than the 610, which previously would have been an identical knot, if I'm not mistaken. It performs unbelievably well and has perfectly split tips, great backbone, excellent lather capacity...kinda want to buy a half dozen of them in case the hair grade has changed in the 610 and might change in the 1470.

Great post and tremendous contribution to the thread!

 

[TBoner]

Great post and tremendous contribution to the thread!

Thanks, but I have to backtrack. I pulled the Semogues out today when I got home. Ibought all of my Semogues except the 1250 in the last four months, but all of them are Excelsior except my 830 and the Torga, which came direct from The Portuguese Factory. I need to try to sort out what vendor(s) I got the others from and see if they have more Excelsiors on hand...

 

[Zhang Doe]

Thanks, but I have to backtrack. I pulled the Semogues out today when I got home. Ibought all of my Semogues except the 1250 in the last four months, but all of them are Excelsior except my 830 and the Torga, which came direct from The Portuguese Factory. I need to try to sort out what vendor(s) I got the others from and see if they have more Excelsiors on hand...

Your Shaving still has some Excelsiors listed. Sometimes for the same brush they have the Excelsior and Hereditas variants.

 

[TBoner]

Gonna use the 1470 tomorrow, then the Torga C5 the next day. Maybe the 610 after that. Try to suss out any differences among the three.

 

[energyloop]

I went through the incredibly scientific process of test face and palm lathering what I have in one go (getting brush burn on my sensitive skin in the process), and I've ordered my inventory in terms of pure softness and lack of scritch with no regard to backbone:

EX: Excelsior, HE: Hereditas

EX Premium > EX Best > EX Extra > HE Extra IT > EX Special > HE Extra > HE Premium

I thought the HE Premium was similar to the EX SOC, but I was proven completely wrong when used side by side. It is noticeably scritchier than both that and the HE Extra, both when visually identifying the fine prickly hairs on the brush canopy and by face feel, especially when pumping the brush on the cheek. All of it this may change a year or two down the road as the mileage clocks in further, but I'm presently avoiding face lathering with the HE Premium.

As usual, YMMV, you might have brushes from softer batches( even some of my Excelsiors of the same grade clearly received different amounts of bleaching), but from my limited experience of the new bristles they seem to have gone in a different direction with the processing. Much more durable hairs with stronger backbone at the cost of unabashed softness.

Might still pick up a Hereditas 1305 or 1470 in the future for giggles, though.