Side effect of convex stones?

[MO1]

So I got a new dovo "best quality".
This was my first straight razor I got aswell but my old one looks like a toothpick now.
I was surprised when i first put it flat on the back of my atoma plate, pretty damn flat, but then on to the side of the print, really wobbly.
Well this has been mentioned alot and I kind of expected this.
I wanted to experience the "same razor" with more experience.
But it looked like it has a frown.

sure enough placing it with the edge down on the plate it is quite apparent.

Not trying to bash dovo any more as they have now closed down if I'm not mistaken.
But could this be a side effect of the convex stones dovo used? Food for thought?
Oh and the edge? Not close to shave ready, no bevel in some spots, even hurts cutting arm, feels like it's pulling hair out.
As I said, kind of expected this minus the frown, but I want to make it "right" with more experience.

 

[rbscebu]

This doesn't surprise me. My thoughts were that a transversally convex stone would be more likely to produce a frowning edge. Particularly if the honer is not really skilled in using a convex whetstone.

 

[LJS]

Well, that’s pretty hard to do on a flat stone unless very narrow stone...which you know they aren’t using. My guess is this happens or at least starts on the turntable grinders.

 

[bluesman 7]

While the frown could be done with a convex stone, I would say it is more a function of the grind. If the grind was even and straight, a frown would show a wider bevel reveal in the middle of the blade. If the center is ground thinner an even bevel reveal will result in a frown. Novice honers often produce frowns on flat hones with straight (non X) strokes. This seems like it would not be possible, but I think that in a lot of cases it is because of an uneven grind.

I can't see the bevel reveal clearly in the photo, but it appears to be fairly even or even thinner in the center.

Edit; just reread and saw that you think that the bevel is not really fully set. In that case it is hard to determine what all is going on. If the problem is in the grind, as I suspect, this can be a difficult razor to hone for someone without experience. Not saying that you don't have the ability.

 

[MO1]

While the frown could be done with a convex stone, I would say it is more a function of the grind. If the grind was even and straight, a frown would show a wider bevel reveal in the middle of the blade. If the center is ground thinner an even bevel reveal will result in a frown. Novice honers often produce frowns on flat hones with straight (non X) strokes. This seems like it would not be possible, but I think that in a lot of cases it is because of an uneven grind.

I can't see the bevel reveal clearly in the photo, but it appears to be fairly even.

Got a point there.
It seems fairly even when looking at it, looking at it with the naked eye, it is hard to see because the hone wear is so slight.
That will lean towards more of a bad grind, true.

 

[stone and strop]

While the frown could be done with a convex stone, I would say it is more a function of the grind. If the grind was even and straight, a frown would show a wider bevel reveal in the middle of the blade. If the center is ground thinner an even bevel reveal will result in a frown. Novice honers often produce frowns on flat hones with straight (non X) strokes. This seems like it would not be possible, but I think that in a lot of cases it is because of an uneven grind.

I can't see the bevel reveal clearly in the photo, but it appears to be fairly even.

The bevel is smallest at the apex of the frown.
Click on photo and drag to where you want to see better.
Perhaps a thinner in the center grind and a flat hone.

 

[MO1]

Edit; just reread and saw that you think that the bevel is not really fully set. In that case it is hard to determine what all is going on. If the problem is in the grind, as I suspect, this can be a difficult razor to hone for someone without experience. Not saying that you don't have the ability.

If it was me 2 years ago, it would probably turn into another toothpick lol.
I kind of wanted a problem razor now, and got exactly that
Just didn't imagine they were that bad.
I'm sure I can fix it, but I kind of wanted to avoid the 1k, and maybe just slurry up my jnat and get some magic going
Abit let down that I have to fix a frown

 

[bluesman 7]

The bevel is smallest at the apex of the frown.
Click on photo and drag to where you want to see better.
Perhaps a thinner in the center grind and a flat hone.

Thanks. I didn't know that I could do that. I agree it looks as though the bevel reveal is thinner at the center of the frown, which supports my posit.

 

[global_dev]

Don't think the convex was the problem, it was probably the solution.

I agree with bluesman, but have you tried shaving with it?

While the frown could be done with a convex stone, I would say it is more a function of the grind. If the grind was even and straight, a frown would show a wider bevel reveal in the middle of the blade. If the center is ground thinner an even bevel reveal will result in a frown. Novice honers often produce frowns on flat hones with straight (non X) strokes. This seems like it would not be possible, but I think that in a lot of cases it is because of an uneven grind.

I can't see the bevel reveal clearly in the photo, but it appears to be fairly even or even thinner in the center.

Edit; just reread and saw that you think that the bevel is not really fully set. In that case it is hard to determine what all is going on. If the problem is in the grind, as I suspect, this can be a difficult razor to hone for someone without experience. Not saying that you don't have the ability.

 

[MO1]

Don't think the convex was the problem, it was probably the solution.

I agree with bluesman, but have you tried shaving with it?

I'm not going to shave test this one. Doesn't even cut arm hair in some spots. Where it does cut, it is pulling strongly.

 

[bluesman 7]

I kind of wanted a problem razor now, and got exactly that

You will need to hone the toe and heel without taking material off of the center for a while before fully setting the bevel to even things out (sharpie can be useful) A narrow hone, or counter intuitively a convex hone, can be helpful when trying to hone the heel without touching the center of the blade. Good luck! You can do it!

 

[bluesman 7]

Don't think the convex was the problem, it was probably the solution.

Well said.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I vaguely recall people saying that a lot of Dovo's are slightly warped coming off the factory line today. Basically a slight warp is considered acceptable and not a reason to bin the razor.


As mentioned, while Convex hones (and bad technique) could in theory cause a frown... my suspicion would be that (as mentioned above), the razor geometry isn't perfect, and the convex hone simply allows sharpening it regardless.

Not to say that a new employee honing it couldn't cause that on a convex hone with a perfectly ground razor and then it slip past QC... but I feel that's a lot less likely than the (relatively high) likelyhood the razor is just slightly warped or not perfectly ground.


Where was it purchased? I also wouldn't rule out that some vendor who thinks they know better than they do "made it shave ready" by breadknifing it and rehoning and they did this.

 

[alla2465]

Never had any luck with modern Dovos. They are razor-shaped objects if you ask me.

 

[Squancher79]

have seen some of their same few people in various videos honing in the mid to late 00s and then late 10s, and in the early videos they were already approaching middle age. Don't look like they're new to it and I bet the quantity of that work station in this day is really small.

 

[MO1]

Where was it purchased? I also wouldn't rule out that some vendor who thinks they know better than they do "made it shave ready" by breadknifing it and rehoning and they did this.

This razor was purchased through a Swedish vendor. "Gents.se"
They do preach "a razor only needs to be honed on stones in extremely rare cases"
The razor case's seal was unbroken and the razor had that "dovo sticker" on it.
Very slight hone wear.
I believe the state of this razor is directly from dovo.

 

[kcb5150]

You paid a premium for a new dovo through a vendor, it really shouldn't be frowned like that out of the box..

 

[ajduplessis]

I guess I have been lucky thus far, no issues with 5/8, 6/8 BQ, Bismarck, Bergisher Lowe, Inox and Dovo Special.

I did collect another 6/8 BQ that had a small wobble at the heel.

 

[rbscebu]

@MO1, just out of curiosity, can. You measure the blade thickness at the top of the bevel, near each end and middle? Best done with a micrometer.

 

[MO1]

@MO1, just out of curiosity, can. You measure the blade thickness at the top of the bevel, near each end and middle? Best done with a micrometer.

I do have a digital caliper. Not the best.
Spine thickness at the heel 4.6/4.7, middle 4.3, toe 4.4.