Feedback on Expensive Soap?

[freeasimo]

I am learning so much!!!

 

[flametop]

An analogy of what I mean is eating lunch at the pasta restaurant that is famous for its gnocchi. The restaurant also serves coffee but you know there is a well known 3rd wave cafe down the street that is known for their espresso so you go there after lunch for your coffee instead.

Completely off topic but: if you were going to have lunch in a decent Italian place, either famous for their pasta, pizza, gnocchi or whatever, they’ll proudly serve you a really good espresso.

 

[Zwiehander]

Completely off topic but: if you were going to have lunch in a decent Italian place, either famous for their pasta, pizza, gnocchi or whatever, they’ll proudly serve you a really good espresso.

YMMV but I havent had the best experience with coffee served by italian restaurants where i live and would prefer to fulfil my coffee quote buying the coffee of a cafe that I have tried and like their coffee.

 

[allyourbasearebelongtous]

so, sir, would you say that the competence of a soap-maker, such as TOBS, lies strictly in soaps and does not extend to fragrances?

They do fragrances too but there is levels to it. Everyone has their own forte, honestly though creed is kinda overrated now. Everyone has or knows about aventus. Its like the new acqua de gio. There is better stuff out there like clive and others. Creed has some good stuff too like viking and some of the gold bottles but the usual suspects, the mystery has been solved

 

[sarimento1]

...I was merely advocating for buying the product that the particular company is known for which is more cost effective and has a better chance uf getting what one is looking for.

Actually, Sir, that is not what you first wrote! Here's what you said, "If they do not make the shaving soap themselves what is the point of buying their soap?...". I respectfully maintain that your statement is flippant and ignores that so many good soaps are sold by companies that don't actually make soaps!

 

[allyourbasearebelongtous]

Another award for long-winded discourse!

Yes, soap-makers need some basic fragrance knowhow, but not necessarily in making fragrances!
Similarly, fragrance-makers who delve into soaps need some basic soap product knowhow, but not in cooking those soaps! What they need to know are the qualities and performance of any products under their brand labels!

This does not mean that those ancillary products are second-tier, which is what you are categorically claiming!

He is saying that the soap maker needs basic scent knowledge to make a scented soap. Which is correct becuase he needs to incorporate scent into the main product he is making which is soap.

Fragrance AKA scent makers dont need soap knowledge to make thier main products. They simply supply thier secret recipe oils to the soap maker to make the soap for them.

for example, tom ford a clothing designer with alot of clout, hires parfumeries to make scents for him and contracts other companies to make the cosmetics with his scents and sell them. Most probably made by the same company that makes em for everyone else. Tom ford designes clothing and that's it. everything else he just smells different stuff and says i like this or i dont like this. Kinda like what steve jobs use to do. Everyone has their forte

another example, versace, a design house, designes sunglasses and contracts it to a company that knows how to manufacture sunglass. Because that is their forte. but they cant designes to save their life. There are hunids of designer brands that sell sunglasses but only like six sunglass manufacturers


I believe what the gentalmen is trying to say is, everyone has their forte

also since scent is a core part of a soap, the soap maker needs basic knowledge of this to complete his product, but since soap has nothing to do with making scents, the scent maker doesnt even need to know what a soap is.

Also i would like to answer the question - why buy soap from a brand that doesn't make the soap themselves? Because its good soap. Using that logic, you would be limited to very few products from all the products in the world.

I bet most soaps are made by the same factories.
Even the artisan people, i bet they get their raw materials from the same people. I wonder how many brands and how many manufacturers for soaps there actually is

 

[Zwiehander]

Actually, Sir, that is not what you first wrote! Here's what you said, "If they do not make the shaving soap themselves what is the point of buying their soap?...". I respectfully maintain that your statement is flippant and ignores that so many good soaps are sold by companies that don't actually make soaps!

It is actually. Like I explained - why bother buying a product that is not the core product that they are famous for making? Isnt it better to buy the product that each company is best known for and which is their core business?

Hence buy the fragrance from.creed and buy the soap from.the artisan of your choice.

I see that you are still trying to start an argument with me by casting unnecessary personal aspersions in now labelling my comment "flippant". It is no use labeling yourself as being "respectfully" when you follow that with an insult. You will notice that even though you have insulted me thrice, I have remained civil to you and not replied in kind...

 

[sarimento1]

...
Also i would like to answer the question - why buy soap from a brand that doesn't make the soap themselves? Because its good soap. Using that logic, you would be limited to very few products from all the products in the world.

I bet most soaps are made by the same factories.
Even the artisan people, i bet they get their raw materials from the same people. I wonder how many brands and how many manufacturers for soaps there actually is

Bingo! You nailed it! Exactly what I was saying!

 

[Zwiehander]

He is saying that the soap maker needs basic scent knowledge to make a scented soap. Which is correct becuase he needs to incorporate scent into the main product he is making which is soap.

Fragrance AKA scent makers dont need soap knowledge to make thier main products. They simply supply thier secret recipe oils to the soap maker to make the soap for them.

for example, tom ford a clothing designer with alot of clout, hires parfumeries to make scents for him and contracts other companies to make the cosmetics with his scents and sell them. Most probably made by the same company that makes em for everyone else. Tom ford designes clothing and that's it. everything else he just smells different stuff and says i like this or i dont like this. Kinda like what steve jobs use to do. Everyone has their forte

another example, versace, a design house, designes sunglasses and contracts it to a company that knows how to manufacture sunglass. Because that is their forte. but they cant designes to save their life. There are hunids of designer brands that sell sunglasses but only like six sunglass manufacturers


I believe what the gentalmen is trying to say is, everyone has their forte

also since scent is a core part of a soap, the soap maker needs basic knowledge of this to complete his product, but since soap has nothing to do with making scents, the scent maker doesnt even need to know what a soap is.

Also i would like to answer the question - why buy soap from a brand that doesn't make the soap themselves? Because its good soap. Using that logic, you would be limited to very few products from all the products in the world.

I bet most soaps are made by the same factories.
Even the artisan people, i bet they get their raw materials from the same people. I wonder how many brands and how many manufacturers for soaps there actually is

Thank you for your post. You correctly understood what I was trying to say.

There is nothing wrong with buying a soap sold under the brand of a fragrance maker. You are right in that it is bound to be a perfectly acceptable and adequate maybe even a good soap.

However my approach is that I would rather buy a soap made by a specialist soap maker who makes their own soaps in their own facilities and who does nothing else. Because as you have put it succinctly- it is their forte. When you hit the heights of buying a fragrance from a house like creed that is one of the most desired fragrances in the world why not reach for the stars for your soaps as well and buy from the niche artisans who are now making waves with their new soap bases?

 

[Zwiehander]

They do fragrances too but there is levels to it. Everyone has their own forte, honestly though creed is kinda overrated now. Everyone has or knows about aventus. Its like the new acqua de gio. There is better stuff out there like clive and others. Creed has some good stuff too like viking and some of the gold bottles but the usual suspects, the mystery has been solved

Do you mean clive Christian? And I thought creed was expensive! Thanks for the reference...

 

[Marco]

Personally, i have A LOT of Soaps and Creams, and what i've found, is that no matter how expensive a soap / cream can become, they still can't beat the cheap stuff from like Italy... It's just a matter of preference i guess, whether or not you wanna spend a fortune on certain soaps / creams, or just get some cheaper ones, and then save the extra money or use the them on something else

Exactly my own thoughts. There are so many great, cheap options out there that I no longer buy expensive soaps. I prefer to spend my money on quality garments (handmade shoes, bespoke shirts, good watches, etc).

 

[Robert G]

Do you mean clive Christian? And I thought creed was expensive! Thanks for the reference...

Ha, check out Roja Dove for fun!

 

[Sabre]

Exactly my own thoughts. There are so many great, cheap options out there that I no longer buy expensive soaps. I prefer to spend my money on quality garments (handmade shoes, bespoke shirts, good watches, etc).

Hopefully less expensive than cheap, Speick instead of Arko.

 

[Sabre]

Ha, check out Roja Dove for fun!

Why go to Roja, when you can go to Lorenzo.

 

[allyourbasearebelongtous]

Thank you for your post. You correctly understood what I was trying to say.

There is nothing wrong with buying a soap sold under the brand of a fragrance maker. You are right in that it is bound to be a perfectly acceptable and adequate maybe even a good soap.

However my approach is that I would rather buy a soap made by a specialist soap maker who makes their own soaps in their own facilities and who does nothing else. Because as you have put it succinctly- it is their forte. When you hit the heights of buying a fragrance from a house like creed that is one of the most desired fragrances in the world why not reach for the stars for your soaps as well and buy from the niche artisans who are now making waves with their new soap bases?

using that approach though, you will miss out on some great stuff. i tried a bunch of soaps from low end to mid end and high end artisans like sebum gold, the best soap has been AdP and ABC creams performance wise, and, after shaves? forget about it. the artisan stuff doesn't even some close to the likes of SMN splash to ABC milk. of course thats all subjective, that being said...

the scent brands, hire specialist soap makers to make the soaps for them. they dont want to put their name on a wack soap. they probably source the best specialists to make the soaps with their desired fragrances. so technically you are reaching for the starts kind of, because some of these specialists soap makers, in order to be economically viable, they need to sell volumes. so they only sell volumes to the scent brands and usually dont have their own brand so they don't want to spend money marketing it. they just sell volumes to designer brands.

i use to sell designer sunglasses and there was this company called luxottica i dealt with. they area sunglass manufacturer, but didnt have their own brands. instead they made sunglasses for designer brands like versace and bvlgari, stuff like that. they probably supplied to like 90 brands. they are specialist sunglass makers, but sell more units making them for designers that buy in volumes. there were like 6 sunglass manufactures, and through these companies most of them based in Europe, i had access to like 200 brands. they all sourced the same manufacturer because they are the specialists. although to be fair, those 200 brands were owned by like 7 or 8 different companies.

long story short, some of the designer brands that don't really make soap but make scents or other luxury products, source some of the most special specialists to make their products thats not forte.

also clive has some of the best stuff. also there is francis kurkdjian. dont tell no one about these though. the game is to be sold not told.

 

[Zwiehander]

Thanks for your information.
Those designer brand soaps sound very expensive and are probably beyond my budget anyway but I will look out for them.

using that approach though, you will miss out on some great stuff. i tried a bunch of soaps from low end to mid end and high end artisans like sebum gold, the best soap has been AdP and ABC creams performance wise, and, after shaves? forget about it. the artisan stuff doesn't even some close to the likes of SMN splash to ABC milk. of course thats all subjective, that being said...

the scent brands, hire specialist soap makers to make the soaps for them. they dont want to put their name on a wack soap. they probably source the best specialists to make the soaps with their desired fragrances. so technically you are reaching for the starts kind of, because some of these specialists soap makers, in order to be economically viable, they need to sell volumes. so they only sell volumes to the scent brands and usually dont have their own brand so they don't want to spend money marketing it. they just sell volumes to designer brands.

i use to sell designer sunglasses and there was this company called luxottica i dealt with. they area sunglass manufacturer, but didnt have their own brands. instead they made sunglasses for designer brands like versace and bvlgari, stuff like that. they probably supplied to like 90 brands. they are specialist sunglass makers, but sell more units making them for designers that buy in volumes. there were like 6 sunglass manufactures, and through these companies most of them based in Europe, i had access to like 200 brands. they all sourced the same manufacturer because they are the specialists. although to be fair, those 200 brands were owned by like 7 or 8 different companies.

long story short, some of the designer brands that don't really make soap but make scents or other luxury products, source some of the most special specialists to make their products thats not forte.

also clive has some of the best stuff. also there is francis kurkdjian. dont tell no one about these though. the game is to be sold not told.

 

[Jim]

Anytime the topic of the cost of soap comes up I like to refer to this thread>

Shaving soaps and the cost per shave- Data mined from the 3017 thread.

The 3017 Thread, AKA "The Fidelity thread" has been chugging along for quite a while now. It occurred to me that with so many men tracking their soap use and time, it would make for some interesting data collection opportunities. Below is my usage for the last 782 days and the costs averaged...

www.badgerandblade.com

There is some serious data and not just a few suprises on the real costs of soap.
Enjoy!

 

[RayClem]

Anytime the topic of the cost of soap comes up I like to refer to this thread>

Shaving soaps and the cost per shave- Data mined from the 3017 thread.

The 3017 Thread, AKA "The Fidelity thread" has been chugging along for quite a while now. It occurred to me that with so many men tracking their soap use and time, it would make for some interesting data collection opportunities. Below is my usage for the last 782 days and the costs averaged...

www.badgerandblade.com

There is some serious data and not just a few suprises on the real costs of soap.
Enjoy!

I use around 1.5 grams of soap per shave and generate enough lather for five passes (four shave passes plus a bonus pass for face conditioning). Thus, a 4 ounce soap (113 grams) should last me 75 shaves. People who are not so generous in the use of their soap should get 90 shaves. Although I have a range of soaps from inexpensive to expensive, the average soap in my den is somewhere around $18. Thus, my average cost per shave for soap is about $0.24. That makes shaving soap one of the least expensive luxuries in my life. A cup of Keurig coffee or a glass of orange juice costs twice as much as my shaving lather. I spend more on a haircut once a month than I do on a daily shave during the month.

Thus, IMHO, people are making far to big a deal over cost per shave. If you need to cut costs, there are more lucrative opportunities.

 

[Hannah's Dad]

I use around 1.5 grams of soap per shave and generate enough lather for five passes (four shave passes plus a bonus pass for face conditioning). Thus, a 4 ounce soap (113 grams) should last me 75 shaves. People who are not so generous in the use of their soap should get 90 shaves. Although I have a range of soaps from inexpensive to expensive, the average soap in my den is somewhere around $18. Thus, my average cost per shave for soap is about $0.24. That makes shaving soap one of the least expensive luxuries in my life. A cup of Keurig coffee or a glass of orange juice costs twice as much as my shaving lather. I spend more on a haircut once a month than I do on a daily shave during the month.

Thus, IMHO, people are making far to big a deal over cost per shave. If you need to cut costs, there are more lucrative opportunities.

 

[Raven Koenes]

I've found Proraso works equally as good as MdC.