Modern Frameback?

[Seveneighth]

Is anyone making framebacks anymore?

I was just thinking about it. Given the appalling geometry you get off cheap Gold Dollars and even lower end Dovos / TIs, wouldn't a frameback be a good option for modern razor making?

1) The tang does not need to be so carefully tempered, and could surely be pressed out in a machine to the right specification?
2) The blade can be made flat, hardened and the bevel ground by machine. Isn't that a more reliable, cheaper manufacturing process?
3) For rehoning, the softer spine protected with tape.

***of course - I don't mean for artisan razor makers - I am thinking about larger scale factory manufacture.

What is your opinion? Especially those of you who make / mod a lot of razors, @bluesman 7 , @Slash McCoy , @Saxonbowman et al.

Come on guys - shoot me down - what am I missing?

 

[bluesman 7]

I don't think that you are missing anything. I don't know that it would be much cheaper if mass produced, and that has to be weighed against posibly lower sales because it may be percieved as being cheaper as well as overal aesthetic considerations. Judging from the relative rarity of them, it seems they never really caught on.

I know that Charlie Lewis has made some in the past.

 

[duke762]

Man my Engstrom frame back shaves sweet. I'll be looking for more on the bay. I'm a tool maker by trade and the thought of making my own is firmly planted in my head. Also kicked around the idea of using a wire EDM to make blades. Wedge or hollow or frame back.

 

[Dave Sl8r]

Well, yes, but their just kind of nasty.

I guess if it was mine, and always mine, it might be a consideration, but I received one in a group of four razors I received, and it’s the only one I haven’t cleaned up, honed, and shaved with for the the above mentioned phobia.

I know I can clean a solid piece of steel, but something clamped together with little microcosms of nastiness, no thanks.

And yes I know if it’s dipped in barbiscide, or some kind of disinfectant it’d be safe, but I will still say no thanks. JMO.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I think the main reason framebacks ever existed is so that only a small amount of high grade high carbon steel is needed. Presently, labor costs dwarf the cost of the steel. Look at the prices for 1095 etc from McMaster-Carr or Grainger.

 

[Saxonbowman]

Is anyone making framebacks anymore?

I was just thinking about it. Given the appalling geometry you get off cheap Gold Dollars and even lower end Dovos / TIs, wouldn't a frameback be a good option for modern razor making?

1) The tang does not need to be so carefully tempered, and could surely be pressed out in a machine to the right specification?
2) The blade can be made flat, hardened and the bevel ground by machine. Isn't that a more reliable, cheaper manufacturing process?
3) For rehoning, the softer spine protected with tape.

***of course - I don't mean for artisan razor makers - I am thinking about larger scale factory manufacture.

What is your opinion? Especially those of you who make / mod a lot of razors, @bluesman 7 , @Slash McCoy , @Saxonbowman et al.

Come on guys - shoot me down - what am I missing?

I will have to admit that I am not a modder myself. I have long been a fan of the Gold Dollar competition so now I help organize that event.

In my former job I had the immense pleasure to watch some very experienced blacksmiths, working in the 18th century style. In those days hardened steel was very expensive and labor cheap. It was common to make tools like axes and chisels out of iron, then weld a piece of carbon-steel to the body in a coal-fired forge. I wish I could provide a link to the videos we made. It was a beautiful process! Japanese kamisori razors look to be made by this process. It seems that the frameback razors were also made this way, though probably by more modern methods.

 

[totorlekiller]

Is anyone making framebacks anymore?

I was just thinking about it. Given the appalling geometry you get off cheap Gold Dollars and even lower end Dovos / TIs, wouldn't a frameback be a good option for modern razor making?

1) The tang does not need to be so carefully tempered, and could surely be pressed out in a machine to the right specification?
2) The blade can be made flat, hardened and the bevel ground by machine. Isn't that a more reliable, cheaper manufacturing process?
3) For rehoning, the softer spine protected with tape.

***of course - I don't mean for artisan razor makers - I am thinking about larger scale factory manufacture.

What is your opinion? Especially those of you who make / mod a lot of razors, @bluesman 7 , @Slash McCoy , @Saxonbowman et al.

Come on guys - shoot me down - what am I missing?

Actually, I think the tang should be made of cutlery grade stainless steel. It does not have to take and keep an edge, but it should would be nice if it did not rust around the pivot. Plus having it harder than the blade, would make honing easier.

 

[kcb5150]

Fwiw some of my best shaving straight razors are framebacks. They have a unique combination of lightness and high rigidity.

 

[Seveneighth]

I think the main reason framebacks ever existed is so that only a small amount of high grade high carbon steel is needed. Presently, labor costs dwarf the cost of the steel. Look at the prices for 1095 etc from McMaster-Carr or Grainger.

My thought stems from wonky Dovos etc. because of the simplicity of the design. Could the manufacture be made to be very cost effective by machine, therefore removing the labour costs.

 

[Seveneighth]

Actually, I think the tang should be made of cutlery grade stainless steel. It does not have to take and keep an edge, but it should would be nice if it did not rust around the pivot. Plus having it harder than the blade, would make honing easier.

I like this. But stainless is costly to manufacture isn't it?

I really like the idea of the low maintenance tang though.

 

[totorlekiller]

I like this. But stainless is costly to manufacture isn't it?

maybe stainless that can keep an edge is expensive, but. I need for that for the frame. There is plenty of dirt cheap cutlery around, so it can not be too expensive to make.

 

[Aggelos]

I think the main reason framebacks ever existed is so that only a small amount of high grade high carbon steel is needed. Presently, labor costs dwarf the cost of the steel. Look at the prices for 1095 etc from McMaster-Carr or Grainger.

I'd have to find my sources on that, but as I read once, the idea may have been born before 1800 in Sweden (hence the nickname "Swedish razor" associated with framebacks) and it was at the time a cheap and practical way to make a razor with a kind of steel which was hard to grind.
The thing is, they would not put the blade in a frame, but rather the frame ON the blade, thus creating the geometry without having to grind the blade.
Well, ok, I should not I suppose, but I am going to poke the @Polarbeard on this one, he should be far more exact on the topic than I am I reckon.

Anyway, framebacks have existed for a long time, and some were actually luxury items, as can be testified by a "Charles" tortoise scaled model found by a famous collector, dating around 1820, with blade change mechanism and all.
Also, sold at Artcurial France in December was a stunning piece, with engraved silver scales, bearing the sigil of the Duke of Angouleme

Provenant de la Fondation Napoléon | Vente n°4013 | Lot n°12 | Artcurial

Rasoir dit Coupe-chou aux Armes du duc d'Angoulême En acier argenté à décor gravé sur une face de lambrequins entourant le blason du duc d'Angoulême accompagné du collier de l'Ordre du Saint-Esprit, sur l'autre face d'une frise fleurie. La monture de la lame, signée CHENEAUX, également gravée de...

www.artcurial.com

As for the lack of popularity, it can be accounted on two factors, I would propose :
- It is indeed a "cheap trick" that not every smith would like to resort to
- It has the same default as the "faux frameback" also called "rattlers", is that they rattle, which was not popular in the day

Anyhow, a few years back a smart guy has used the technique of the "tube frameback" to make homemade razors using stock removal to shape the blade on a thin plate of steel, and added a brass tube on the back to create the geometry. Funny blades, and quite efficient for the little skill used
He got the idea by re-framing a Wostenholm which had lost its original brass back frame.