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Honing...by a beginner for beginners

First off, let me preface by saying this is what I found helpful to me in finally figuring out why I wasn't getting sharp blades after hours(literally) of honing the same edge...over and over again to no avail. I watched many YouTube videos and read many threads. There were still question and uncertainties I had. I'm hoping to state those and describe what I found to be the solutions. The most helpful video I found FOR ME was by Lynn Abrams(previous owner of "Straight Razor Designs" RIP). The video title: Norton 4k/8k circle method was the method I used. I will say that I did set my bevel w/ 800 grit wet/dry sand paper...I can sense the heads rolling in the room. I get it...but it worked. I also spent lots of time on the 4k ensuring it was good. I'll describe in detail now:

Important note: Dont get cheap tape for your spine...use scotch/3m super 88. If you cheap on this, the stones will remove the tape much faster effecting you bevel and the water will cause the tape to fall off the blade while in the middle of honing. Seriously...please go buy it. Lowes/home depot/online.

important definitions:
1)light pressure- the weight of the blade plus the added weight equivalent to 2 U.S. quarters(to gauge measurement).
2)no pressure- literally none, simply the weight of the blade...dont fudge this...you'll get a dull blade EVERY time. You WILL ruin the edge.
3)lap- 1 pass up AND back on the stone

The process:
1)I placed 3m 800 grit wet/dry sand paper on my flattening stone(back side)...taped it down and performed 50 circles w/ light pressure on each side. followed by 50 laps w/ no pressure
2)after soaking my norton 4k/8k for 20 minutes, on the 4k side, I performed 80 circles on each side w/ light pressure. using a squirt bottle, hosed down the stone. 60 circles on each side w/ light pressure. Squirt bottle. 40 circles w/ no pressure. Squirt bottle. 20 circles w/ no pressure. Squirt bottle. 10 circles w/ no pressure and then 100 laps. I'm sure this is excess...I didn't care. I wanted to make sure it was done and done right.
The feel of the blade on the hone: was very smooth after performing this step. I felt like the blade was riding on a cushion of water. I doubted multiple times that anything was actually happening...if it wasn't for the slurry being built and evidence of material being removed from the blade edge I would have thought I should be pressing down. Just refuse the temptation. I did feel an ever so faint grinding feel at this point w/ my dovo 5/8 full hollow stainless. Very faint but still there. W/ my T-I carbon steel 6/8 full hollow...just cushiony smoothness.
3) on the 8k side I performed 60 circles no pressure. squirt bottle. 40 circles. bottle. 20. bottle. Then 50 laps. All of this with no pressure AT ALL. The blade felt like it was riding on greased glass w/ both razors. Absolutely smooth. Fight the temptation to press down. Only the weight of the blade.
4)I have a Naniwa 12000 grit as well. I highly recommend it. I performed 40 circles. 20 circles. 10 circles then 40 laps. NO pressure at any point. Lots of hot...steamy...squirt bottle action in between every step.

This took serious time. DO NOT RUSH THINGS. It only takes 1 time of slapping the blade down wrong to make you have to start all over. I used a 60x Jeweler's Loupe throughout the entire process to ensure a smooth edge. Taking lots of time to look. I also had a freshly honed blade to compare my other 2 w/ so that I knew what a good, well honed edge felt like(it was done by a professional straight razor restorer...its a John Primble razor to those who want to know:). If your not sure what a good edge feels & shaves like...bite the bullet and send your razor 1x to a pro...just so you know for future reference.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
Your comments on pressure are excellent. A straight razor, both honing and shaving are unlike any other edged tool. If you’re not getting good results, reduce pressure instead of increasing it. And of course if you use too much pressure shaving with one, that situation will correct itself much quicker than too much pressure honing it seems. The pressurenthat you use to shave with is similar to the pressure that you use to hone with.

I’ll add another bit of advice, watch the scratch pattern on the bevel and make sure that the scratch patter is as uniform at the toe and heel as in the middle. When you see a uniform scratch pattern all along the bevel, you know that your biasing the pressure during your honing strokes correctly.

It sounds like you’re on the way to many pleasant shaves.
 
I think Lynn just over-complicates things in those videos. I get it, he is trying to make it fool proof but he has people thinking that you have to do this complicated process. You don't.

Just sharpen on the 1k until it easily cuts arm hair like a knife though butter. Move on to the rest of the progressing and when it feels like that hone is doing very little, move to the next one.

It's that simple.

You are right about needing to use light to no pressure. The knife guys that the longest to learn that lesson it seems.
 
As my mentor Alfredo told me long ago and I remember it clearly ..... All your doing is rubbing steel on a rock so don’t over think it and the second part of his lesson for this padiwan was Hone, Shave, Repeat
 
Circle and tape should never be on a post for beginners, in my opinion

they are advanced techniques useful in rare occasions for specific razor conditions.

I would also change the whole “sandpaper, set a bevel, do a progression” advice to “get a shave ready razor and a finisher”

Anyway, happy that you found what works for you!
 
Nice write up. I am glad you are getting satisfactory shaves! I would suggest half strokes instead of circles- I’m not a fan of circles at all. Especially since you are using 800 w/d I think that you will find that if you join your edge after you set the bevel you will get better results as you move up the progression.

The abrasive particles in sandpaper can leave deep inconsistent scratches in your bevel, which will lead to microchipping on the finer stones.

Your bevel is your edge and 90% of your work should be spent there. Anything higher than about 3k is polishing. Your insights on pressure are spot on.

The best advice I can give you is there is no one way to sharp. Experiment and have fun. There are a few principals that are axiomatic but there is much that is in the skill of the honer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I think Lynn just over-complicates things in those videos. I get it, he is trying to make it fool proof but he has people thinking that you have to do this complicated process. You don't.

Just sharpen on the 1k until it easily cuts arm hair like a knife though butter. Move on to the rest of the progressing and when it feels like that hone is doing very little, move to the next one.

It's that simple.

You are right about needing to use light to no pressure. The knife guys that the longest to learn that lesson it seems.
I totally hear what your saying in regards to Lynn over complicating. But, for a guy like me...who has literally no experience...I really needed a "honing for dummies" tutorial. I'm sure w/ time and experience I'll learn my own methods/tricks. Question, do you ever apply pressure or do you always go w/ no pressure. That is something I've wondered...like, what would happen if I just never applied pressure.
 
Personally I think that circles take.longer for guys to learn to do accurately so thus the longer learning curve.
So, now that I've had a chance to shave with them. They're giving me a "pretty good" shave. But compared to the professionally honed razor I just received they are as good. So, I'm wondering about something you said...what is the right circle method vs. the wrong circle method? Thanks for your thoughts!
 
Your comments on pressure are excellent. A straight razor, both honing and shaving are unlike any other edged tool. If you’re not getting good results, reduce pressure instead of increasing it. And of course if you use too much pressure shaving with one, that situation will correct itself much quicker than too much pressure honing it seems. The pressurenthat you use to shave with is similar to the pressure that you use to hone with.

I’ll add another bit of advice, watch the scratch pattern on the bevel and make sure that the scratch patter is as uniform at the toe and heel as in the middle. When you see a uniform scratch pattern all along the bevel, you know that your biasing the pressure during your honing strokes correctly.

It sounds like you’re on the way to many pleasant shaves.
Good thoughts on scratch pattern, I'm using a 60x loupe...w/ that it looked pretty good all in all. But, now that I've shaved with both of the razors I honed, I know I have some room to grow. They're good shavers for sure...just not like CRAZY sharp like the professionally done razor I just recieved. With time I'm sure I'll get it:) Thanks again!
 
Circle and tape should never be on a post for beginners, in my opinion

they are advanced techniques useful in rare occasions for specific razor conditions.

I would also change the whole “sandpaper, set a bevel, do a progression” advice to “get a shave ready razor and a finisher”

Anyway, happy that you found what works for you!
So...yeah, hahahaha...def a shade tree version w/ the sand paper. I know. My reason for needing to set a bevel(short version)...I tried honing this blade a couple years ago...I had that thing on the stone so lone I probably rubbed down the spine a full 1mm. I def needed to tape and reset the bevel. I knew it...I felt stupid...still feel stupid...just didnt know what I was doing. At the end of the day I wont need to do that again w/ the razor thankfully...but, it needed to get done and all I had was my norton 4k/8k...needed to drop down to a lower grit on the cheap. All said, thanks for the encouragement. I'll big a big boy w/ this some day:)
 
Nice write up. I am glad you are getting satisfactory shaves! I would suggest half strokes instead of circles- I’m not a fan of circles at all. Especially since you are using 800 w/d I think that you will find that if you join your edge after you set the bevel you will get better results as you move up the progression.

The abrasive particles in sandpaper can leave deep inconsistent scratches in your bevel, which will lead to microchipping on the finer stones.

Your bevel is your edge and 90% of your work should be spent there. Anything higher than about 3k is polishing. Your insights on pressure are spot on.

The best advice I can give you is there is no one way to sharp. Experiment and have fun. There are a few principals that are axiomatic but there is much that is in the skill of the honer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wow...seriously, love what your saying. So, now that I'm towards the bottom of the comments...not one person has recommended the circle method. So, I'm going to change that next time I do this. Question, when you say half strokes your talking like a buffing action right. The blad doesn't leave the stone, just a up/down/up/down on the stone, right? I think I'm going to need to bight the bullet and get a 1k stone maybe? Or, now the bevel is set and I've gone all the way through 12k...next time I hone, just I just use 4k/8k/12k and still be good? I dont need to jump on a 1k again, right?
 
Wow...seriously, love what your saying. So, now that I'm towards the bottom of the comments...not one person has recommended the circle method. So, I'm going to change that next time I do this. Question, when you say half strokes your talking like a buffing action right. The blad doesn't leave the stone, just a up/down/up/down on the stone, right? I think I'm going to need to bight the bullet and get a 1k stone maybe? Or, now the bevel is set and I've gone all the way through 12k...next time I hone, just I just use 4k/8k/12k and still be good? I dont need to jump on a 1k again, right?

Once you have your edge you should only have to go to the 12k stone to refresh. Once the bevel is set it is set unless you damage the edge. You could go down to the 8k if you want to experiment with finishers for example.

You don’t have to go back down to 1k unless you are re-setting the bevel.

Yes half strokes are “buffing” back and forth it removes steel quickly.

For a bevel setter you can’t go wrong with a naniwa pro or super 1k (used to be called Chosera) they go for about $80 on Amazon and you’ll never need another bevel setter.

IMHO it is really easy to chase the ultimate finisher and not realize how important a great bevel setter is.

My personal progression is 1k Naniwa chosera (super stone) naniwa 3k super stone, 5k Shapton Kuromaku, 8k Shapton Kuromaku and then a finisher.

Of course I have Jnats, Coticules, Thuringians and some exotic stones, but really it is all about smooth and comfortable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Once you have your edge you should only have to go to the 12k stone to refresh. Once the bevel is set it is set unless you damage the edge. You could go down to the 8k if you want to experiment with finishers for example.

You don’t have to go back down to 1k unless you are re-setting the bevel.

Yes half strokes are “buffing” back and forth it removes steel quickly.

For a bevel setter you can’t go wrong with a naniwa pro or super 1k (used to be called Chosera) they go for about $80 on Amazon and you’ll never need another bevel setter.

IMHO it is really easy to chase the ultimate finisher and not realize how important a great bevel setter is.

My personal progression is 1k Naniwa chosera (super stone) naniwa 3k super stone, 5k Shapton Kuromaku, 8k Shapton Kuromaku and then a finisher.

Of course I have Jnats, Coticules, Thuringians and some exotic stones, but really it is all about smooth and comfortable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So, I'm using a Norton 4k/8k and a naniwa 12k. I don't have a 1k obviously. But, I feel ok w/ my bevel but from the feeling I'm getting from you, I almost wonder about it. We'll see how the shaves go for a while. I'm certainly no pro... Haha
 
I totally hear what your saying in regards to Lynn over complicating. But, for a guy like me...who has literally no experience...I really needed a "honing for dummies" tutorial. I'm sure w/ time and experience I'll learn my own methods/tricks. Question, do you ever apply pressure or do you always go w/ no pressure. That is something I've wondered...like, what would happen if I just never applied pressure.
I don't really apply pressure. I mean I guess there always is a little pressure but it's not like with honing a knife. It's pretty much just the weight of the blade.
 
I have used circles since day one but then I hardly use a 1K anymore either as my method starts at the 4k with slurry and goes up to 8k then finisher but lately it’s be 4k then JNAT on nagura progression
 
So, now that I've had a chance to shave with them. They're giving me a "pretty good" shave. But compared to the professionally honed razor I just received they are as good. So, I'm wondering about something you said...what is the right circle method vs. the wrong circle method? Thanks for your thoughts!
What I mean is it takes more time to learn to do circles accurately than other strokes imo. There's nothing wrong with circles.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
I like to mix it up. W strokes, Z strokes, A, B, C, and D strokes, and R strokes. I also like the subtle difference between W strokes and M strokes. Or the gentle curves of the S stroke. Then you got cursive and italic strokes. That gets deep.

What I am getting at, is when honing multiple strokes just one side of a razor, you can divide everything up into one way strokes where the razor is lifted off the hone at the end of the stroke and returned to the origin and then placed on the stone for the next stroke, and round trip strokes, where the razor remains on the stone both coming and going, so to speak. Both are valid, both work, neither one is IMHO easier or harder to use to good result. Round trip honing is well suited to fast steel removal. One way honing helps me to calm down and be very deliberate and thoughtful about the stroke.
 
I think using different strokes is a good way to learn when you are ready to move up in a stone progression by checking the scratch pattern after each set of strokes.
 
This... ^^^^^ I alternate between the finish strokes in each progression... 1K is back and forth with blade horizontal. Next step finishes with back and forth heal leading. Next step finishes strokes with blade horizontal. And so on. Makes it much easier for my old eyes to see if I have erased that last step's strokes since I am just looking for angled or straight strokes that reach the edge.
 
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