3 pass question

[Rescue78]

Hello

I have a question regarding the 3 pass shave. I do not consider my beard to grow thick or coarse. I am a daily shaver except week ends.

I started wet shaving about a month ago and really enjoy it. My issue is that I feel going WTG does very little for me. I hear some hair being cut, but the feel is the same afterwards. XTG also does very little except for under the nose. I feel I am not really shaving until I go ATG. Only then do I hear active cutting and get a result, but I still need to go over the same spot a few times..

I do not have sensitive skin. I had a few weepers the first couple of times I shaved. Now, I can go over the same spot over and over again with thin ladder and hardly ever have a weeper. I also don't feel razor burn. I unfortunately am arguable unreasonably obsessed with a BBS. I just keep going until I can't feel facial hair. For me, it means a lot of touching up though.

I started with a Merkur 34C. I used the included Merkur blade, then an Astra Blue, Astra Green, and I am now using Gillette Platinum. I still have to try Gillette Silver Blue, 7 O'Clock green and Feather from my sample pack. I use a pre shave oil and Proraso cream lathered in a warm scuttle.

I figured my razor was not aggressive enough for me so I bought a 1969 Gold Black Beauty Super Adjustable. I also have a 1947 Super Speed coming. They are my birth year and my late father birth year. Both yet have to be delivered. I also have a Feather Artist Club SS that I use when I have skipped a day shaving. I used the Proguard twice and feel ready to go to the Pro Blade.

So it looks like my question is more like a few questions. Can I expect a closer shave with the razors I ordered? Should I go straight to the Feather blade? And does anybody else find the WTG and XTG to be a waste of time?

Thank you

 

[OhioBob]

A three pass shave is a personal thing. Some do, some don't. Some only do one pass ATG. Your 34C should give you a good shave, but a sharper blade in a milder razor does help. My best advice to you is keep shaving with the 34C until you get your technique down. The search for the perfect razor or RAD (razor acquisition disorder) should be avoided until you get some practice of a few months in, then you should try to avoid it. Also remember shaving with a DE is taking off a little beard hair at a time.

I have only been shaving with a DE since April 2019 and I thought I had things perfected in 30 days and started down the rabbit hole of RAD and after 30 razors in my collection and multiple soaps/creams and blades, I can say that I can get as good of shave with the Edwin Jagger DE89 I started with that I do with my other modern or vintage razors. I can admit it has cost me lots of money to come to the realization that different razors are not always nirvana. This does become a hobby and it depends how you want to address that fact. I chose to be a collector, others don't and are perfectly happy with one or two razors.

So my advice is try some sharper blades, the Platinums and Silver Blues are really good as are the Astra Greens. Feathers are the sharpest you can get and until you really have your technique down they can be a blood bath, or at least I thought that when I first started. You might try some soaps that give a really good cushion, make sure your beard prep is good and map your beard for the direction it grows.

Give up on your quest for a BBS shave every time, it will come with practice. Some days you get it some you don't. I have the same obsession, but have learned to shave the same way every day and most times it produces a BBS shave, then again, some it doesn't, but I can live with that.

 

[bluewing]

Hi,

It's a balancing act between your face, the blade and the razor. Don't forget what you may consider an acceptable shave. I do 2 passes as a rule, one with and one against. If I want that BBS shave, I need to do a 3 pass with buffing of the hard spots.

So there isn't a clear answer but to try things to see what works best for you.

 

[Chef455]

The razors you have ordered might indeed give you a closer shave. Particularly the Super Adjustable since you can dial it to "9" of so desired. I might throw out if you have mapped your beard growth or not. A month in and not getting DFS with a Merkur 34c+ ( definitely not my favourite but completely adequate) decent blades after 3 passes sounds odd, but as always YMMV. What else do you have going on? No mention of brushes or soaps/creams. What is your pre shave routine? There are a lot of variables in place and the more info you can provide the more... well, hopefully, helpful we can be.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Whatever works for you is the right way.

Many gentlemen do a one pass ATG shave and leave it with that.

BBS is highly overrated and not worth chasing in my opinion but my opinion is informed by fairly sensitive skin and wimpy nerve endings which you apparently don't have.

Avoid RAD if you can. Improve your technique (which largely means just plow ahead using what you have and assume you'll get better at it) unless you have reason to believe your razor is bad. I haven't used the razor you mention but it has a good reputation.

Sticking with kit - really learning it, dialing it in, giving it a good chance to grow on you - rather than jumping all over the place is worth consideration for many reasons. Not that I followed that advice you understand.



Blades are extremely individual. You can find the right one for you through trial and error but my right one may be way different. Many guys settle on the one I like best because it has the right amount of sharpness and also sufficient smoothness (for me). Once I tried the Polsilver I never tried anything else because I just knew. Sweet spot!

Of the blades you mention I like the 7 O'Clock greens the best. That should mean nothing as blades are so peculiarly individual. I hate Feather blades, but I'm talking DE blades. I use Prolines in the AC platform and like 'em. Again, what I use means nothing to anyone else. Particularly with blades.

How do you like that Feather SS? Occasionally I use mine. Good tool.

Straight razors rock.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[steveclarkus]

I always go WTG then ATG 90% BBS. I don’t chase the other 10% why bother?

 

[Dog Whiskerer]

You've been shaving a month. As your technique improves you'll find the efficiency of all your passes will improve. The thing about BBS...no matter how close you get your shave, it grows back.

 

[brucered]

... I unfortunately am arguable unreasonably obsessed with a BBS. I just keep going until I can't feel facial hair. For me, it means a lot of touching up though.


So it looks like my question is more like a few questions. Can I expect a closer shave with the razors I ordered? Should I go straight to the Feather blade? And does anybody else find the WTG and XTG to be a waste of time?

Thank you

1) STOP chasing a BBS. It'll happen when you least expect it, in time. If you chase it, you'll never catch. It doesn't last anyways, so who cares.

2) XTG isn't needed, especially if you find you are getting weeper and irritation. Stick with a single pass WTG and see how that goes. If you really want to, do a two pass of WTG and ATG.

Only you can tell BBS from DFS, and probably only by rubbing your face. The funny thing is, when you try for a BBS and get weepers, it looks worse than a single pass DFS without irritation and redness.

Bottom line, BBS is overrated. I'm a 1 pass, WTG, night shaver.

 

[Tomo]

Don’t forget above the in between directions. South-West, North-West.

I have settled on a two pass daily shave. Occasionally three for an extra close on the face only.

I generally follow the WTG, XTG routine but try to tease a little bit extra out of each pass by sailing slightly into the wind. That’s to say the first pass has a slight cross grain bias (Southwest as supposed to due south). The second pass goes a little against the grain (one due west stroke followed up by a single Northwest buffing stroke). This technique squeezes a little more out of each pass for the daily shave. With practice you will learn which areas benefit from a slightly more aggressive shave direction.

I really only ever due a fully WTG pass on multi day growth. Like you I don’t find it to be very efficient most of the time. I’m always looking for audio or sensory feedback. Once you get to the stage where you are cutting but can’t feel any resistance anymore, razor burn is just around the corner.

 

[xiletero]

I really think sticking to one razor, brush and soap and mastering it at the beginning is very useful. Switching blades , OK if you don't like one particular. Not everyone needs 3 passes, nor can everyone tolerate 3 passes every day.

I guess as long as your razor is a normal model. Even cheap Wishi and all their clones are OK! ($10) and no blade overhang....

 

[BigJ]

Some great advice in above!

#1. To me, the biggest variable here is that your technique is still evolving. With more experience your shaves will continue to improve with NO changes in your current set-up. Trying more razors, blades, etc at this point may slow your progress in figuring out what works best for you.

#2. I second the recommendation that you should map your beard to understand what is really WTG, etc. and how this can vary in different areas.

#3. You have some fine razors, but you still have to figure out the optimal blade for your first razor. So I humbly suggest that you stick with that for a bit longer until you really have that one ‘dialed in.’

Just my $0.02!

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I really think sticking to one razor, brush and soap and mastering it at the beginning is very useful. Switching blades , OK if you don't like one particular. Not everyone needs 3 passes, nor can everyone tolerate 3 passes every day.

I guess as long as your razor is a normal model. Even cheap Wishi and all their clones are OK! ($10) and no blade overhang....

I agree that sticking with one razor (and other kit) is a good idea in the beginning for most people in most situations.

However, it is sometimes very wrong. It was for me. I had picked badly.

The first soap I really stuck with was MWF. The Fat may be a good soap, but it's a terribly drying soap for me. I'm pretty far along the learning curve now and can use a huge number of soaps without problems, but the Fat is not one of them. It alway dries my skin way too much. I'll never use it again. I know using it, and sticking with it in the beginning retarded my progress.

My first DE razor (since decades ago) was one I found highly reviewed. I spent some money on it. I think it's a good razor for many people, but it's a lousy razor for me. It's a razor with a negative blade exposure, and, for me, too much gap and too much guard span. It also seems to require a shallow angle (riding the cap). I'm talking about the Feather AS-D2.

Further, the AS-D2 seems to work best with the Feather blade. Feather blades give me a shave which is initially good, but later very uncomfortable. I can't use them, but they're fine for many people and a good fit for the AS-D2.

In addition, I've learned that with safety razors I need to shave at a steep angle or at the razor's design angle (neutral angle). I can't seem to do that even now with the AS-D2.

Anyway, I spent a lot of time mastering both MWF and the Feather AS-D2. I say mastering with tongue in cheek because both were impossible for me to get the hang of.

Today I can shave well enough with just about any razor, but whenever I try to shave with the AS-D2 it doesn't work for me.

Sometimes the tools are not right for an individual and aren't ever going to be dialed in.

I'm not knocking either the Feather AS-D2 or MWF except that they're not for me. I have no doubt they're great for many gentlemen.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Atlantic59]

You have not been at this very long, really. LOTS of good advice above.

Remember, technique is more important than tools at this stage. As long as your tools are decent, focus on your technique. Keep using the same setup for a few weeks. Your skill improves by muscle memory, which is largely subconscious.

Don't chase a BBS. As your skill improves, it will happen almost accidentally. Set a limit of two or three passes and stick with it. Suggest one WTG, one ATG and one touch-up pass.

 

[EclipseRedRing]

Some great advice above. I could get by with just going ATG and the results would be much the same. But, I don't and here is why. Shaving for me is a time to think and to relax, I enjoy the ceremony and the preparation and have no wish to shorten the process, or reduce the number of passes. It is much more than just a utilitarian function, beard reduction is almost incidental. We all have our own reasons, likes and dislikes, just do what you like.

 

[Ladit]

First try your new razors with everything else unchanged. Then you'll see if it's the technique or the tools. The best advice is to map your beard,where are directions changing,where are the whirls. If you figured that out you can try to reduce it to an ATG+ pass meaning an ATG pass followed by some cleaning of the weird spots.

 

[Chard52142]

Some great advice above. I could get by with just going ATG and the results would be much the same. But, I don't and here is why. Shaving for me is a time to think and to relax, I enjoy the ceremony and the preparation and have no wish to shorten the process, or reduce the number of passes. It is much more than just a utilitarian function, beard reduction is almost incidental. We all have our own reasons, likes and dislikes, just do what you like.

+1 Exactly, "enjoy the ceremony and the preparation and have no wish to shorten the process, or reduce the number of passes"

 

[emwolf]

I only do 2 passes on my face and routinely get a Bbs, however I have a goatee so chin and under nose don't get touched. My head, on the other hand, needs three and sometimes four to get clean. That's based on the kind of hair I'm cutting.

 

[slim6596]

My question is this: how's your angle, razor to skin? When I switched from carts to DE, I was used to the razor head pivoting to always lay against my skin without effort from me. DEs do not, so you need to be aware of how you're holding the razor against your face to cut the stubble efficiently.

 

[BobbyB]

IMHO the number off, and direction of passes, would be determined by the coarseness of one's beard, and sharpness of the blade being used. At 68, my facial hairs isn't very coarse and 2 passes (WTG f/b ATG), plus buffing up stubble 'aroused' by witch hazel, and A/S is enough for me.

 

[Rescue78]

Thank you for all the feed back everyone.

To answer some of the question:

My routine consists of filling my scuttle with hot water to warm it and let my best badger brush soak in it while I shower. I make a point to have hot water on m face before I get out. First thing I do after I dry off is to put quality pre-shave oil on my face and massage it in. I then change the water in my scuttle to ensure I have hot water in. I then lather my Proraso cream to the right texture and thickness. I apply the lather on my face with circular motion. I run hot water on my razor and start my shave. I stretch my skin and go WTG, XTG, ATG, often a second ATG then "a fair bit of feel around and chase rough spots". I finish with a cold water rinse after shave balm. I also noticed that 30 minutes after the shave, I feel like I have a closer shave than what I thought I achieved.

I am not looking at taking shorter to shave. I quite enjoy the time spent doing it. I am now enjoying my morning routine ore than I ever did. I am just wondering why the first pass seems to be doing nothing.

I am quite attentive to the angle and I ensure the fan is off to listen to the razor. At the beginning, I was definitely too sharp of an angle. Or maybe it is too shallow? What I mean is the handle was to far away from my face. I have since adjusted that. I also move the razor a bit quicker than I used to.

I no longer have weepers, no matter how much I get over the same area. It seems like my face just does not care. No matter how aggressive I get (obsessing over one area or increased pressure) I get no burn.

Somebody asked if i like the Feather Artist Club SS. I love the feeling of shaving with it. I really like shaving with a straight blade like razor. I only use it once a week now and still have to finish off with a DE since I am working on my technique and ambidextrous ability. As I mentioned, I feel I am ready to drop the Proguard and go with the Professionals

Mapping - Yes I mapped my beard early on and realized that it does not grow in the traditional North South way. it is goes South above the jaw line, then it heads South East below the jaw line, ore so on one side of my face.

I do appreciate the comments about sticking with one tool. I do get it. I will try the adjustable when it comes in because I cant help but wonder if I need/want a more aggressive setup.

Don't take me wrong, I get amazing BBS shaves every morning. It is just that I have to touch up (is that what buff is?) quite a bit. Luckily my face doesn't care. Maybe my beard is coarser than I think it is.

My RAD spree had a bit to do with getting a razor of my birth year and quarter as well as my dad's. Hopefully I'll calm down now lol.

I really appreciate all the comments.