Anybody Know About This "350" Razor? Anything? Weird Razor?

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I bought a razor from johnloc on eBay. Supposed to be shave ready, but wasn't. No surprise. However, I've now honed the razor three times and it's still not sharp enough. It will shave but not to my satisfaction.

I have other razors I've honed which I wouldn't rate at the very top of the sharpness tree, but this one is a level or two below those edges.

The only markings anywhere are on the shank. 350. Nothing else.

That's it. 350.

The steel seems okay in a kinda sorta way. What I mean is there was something wonky feeling on the stones, but I think I've gotten rid of that entirely. I'm not sure how to tell you what it was expect to say the blade felt sorta like it was skipping on the 12K stone after going through the progression from 1K up today.

So, I took the 350 back to the 1K Chosera, 3K, 5K, 8K sequence. The second time on the 12K it felt fine. It also felt fine on the Norton Hard Translucent Arkansas stone.

The razor was similarly honed by me a few days ago, but I wasn't pleased with the edge which accounts for the honing I did today. I also used my usual CrOx, and Red & Black pastes on strops. Basically I did what I usually do but the razor is not as sharp as I'd like.

Mostly, I'm trying to find out if you know anything about the 350 razor? Where's it made? Is the steel weird? Anything?

I plan to hone it again. Not today. A thousand laps on the Ark. Just that. I also have a Plan C.

Still, what is this razor?

Thanks and happy shaves,

Jim

 

[kcb5150]

A lot of solingen razors had that 350 stamp. Just google 350 solingen and see for yourself. The makers mark got ground off the tang at some point, presumably to remove rot. I wouldn't know what to say besides. The blade doesn't have blue discoloration so that's good, but if it isn't holding the edge at all maybe it got overheated with all this grinding if machines were used. What does the edge look like under magnification?

 

[kcb5150]

What might be the case is if it were sanded really aggressively on the tang the faces may have been as well and your contact at the bevel may be a bit sketchy which is leading to unsatisfactory results so far

 

[global_dev]

bought a razor from johnloc on eBay. Supposed to be shave ready, but wasn't. No surprise.

Really? i dont know this seller or have ever bought, but some posters here have been talking him up as a top straights ebay merchant. so that’s a surprise.

what’s the bevel angle? just curious. I recently was honing up a razor that didn't feel great but appleared shave ready, so i went back and only honed up to 3K, stropped and had a quick shave test to see if the steel was having issues due to a certain issue i was contemplating.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

A lot of solingen razors had that 350 stamp. Just google 350 solingen and see for yourself. The makers mark got ground off the tang at some point, presumably to remove rot. I wouldn't know what to say besides. The blade doesn't have blue discoloration so that's good, but if it isn't holding the edge at all maybe it got overheated with all this grinding if machines were used. What does the edge look like under magnification?

Thanks. It helps to know it's German steel.

The blade looks normal under magnification (to the degree I've used any). I'm not saying it won't hold whatever edge it's had, just that it's not been sharp enough yet. Maybe it needs a lot more time on the stone or time on a different stone.

I think you're saying it's likely to be a decent piece of steel unless it has been damaged by someone "fixing" it up.

What might be the case is if it were sanded really aggressively on the tang the faces may have been as well and your contact at the bevel may be a bit sketchy which is leading to unsatisfactory results so far

I'd not considered that. I should have. It's not the most wonky blade I've messed with, but has seemed particularly hone-resistant. I think I can hone it if it can be honed. It sounds like it can be unless it was damaged with heat or something.

Really? i dont know this seller or have ever bought, but some posters here have been talking him up as a top straights ebay merchant. so that’s a surprise.

I've purchased several nice razors at very decent prices from johnloc. I've found only one of them to be what I'd consider shave ready. I'm not a very experienced SR shaver or honer (only have maybe a hundred and twenty five or so SR shaves to my credit), but I can usually get an edge better (or more to my liking) than what I get with most "shave ready" razors.

His edges are better than some vendors for sure.

The best "shave ready" edges I've acquired were from a member. Quite sharp!

I don't particularly look for shave ready razors when buying vintage bargains (which is what I buy), but I do look at johnloc's wares. He has good razors in my experience. I'm hoping this 350 will turn out to be another good one.

Thanks, gentlemen!

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Twelvefret]

Johnloc uses tape. If you didn't go back and set the bevel, that may be your problem.

 

[global_dev]

while certainly not impossible, it would be odd to have honed this 3x at a 1000 grit stone and not have obliterated the taped bevel on a hollowed razor. But you never know.

OP, did you do an edge marker test?

 

[dundak]

One thing to check too is the edge thickness behind the bevel. On some restored razors aggressive breadknifing, sanding, honing etc with push your bevel up into the belly of the blade. This is the thickest part of the edge. Makes it impossible to get a good 15-19 degree bevel and it will never feel right. May pass all the tests but the shave always feel subpar.

This issue is the whole reason George Korn came up with the double concave grind back in 1901 Pat. US693524A

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Johnloc uses tape. If you didn't go back and set the bevel, that may be your problem.

I did go back and set the bevel with the burr method. I know he uses tape.

 

[Twelvefret]

I did go back and set the bevel with the burr method. I know he uses tape.

Okay, good deal!

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Great ideas.

My post was more about finding information about the kind of razor, steel, manufacturer, etc., but I'm getting great and unexpected honing and razor evaluation advice. Cool!

One thing to check too is the edge thickness behind the bevel. On some restored razors aggressive breadknifing, sanding, honing etc with push your bevel up into the belly of the blade. This is the thickest part of the edge. Makes it impossible to get a good 15-19 degree bevel and it will never feel right. May pass all the tests but the shave always feel subpar.

This issue is the whole reason George Korn came up with the double concave grind back in 1901 Pat. US693524A

I doubt this is it, but I'll examine the blade carefully. It's quite a wide blade, and doesn't look like one of those that have been turned into a near wedge, but I've not examined the blade with that in mind.

OP, did you do an edge marker test?

No, but that's a good idea and probably something I should have done. Still, visually it looks now like the edge/bevel is being hit by the hone; for a while I thought the blade or the edge or the spine might be warped. There's one way to be sure.

Thanks, gentlemen, and happy shaves,

Jim

 

[global_dev]

from the spine and edge wear hugh in the middle, it looks most probable it is warped, is it the wear opposite on the other side?
even so, it should still be okay to hone with appropriate strokes.

 

[steveclarkus]

What would save a lot of time is to return it. But first just reset the bevel as @Twelvefret suggested. I reset the bevel on EVERY new to me razor. Trust but verify you know.

 

[naughtilus]

@Chan Eil Whiskers

Interesting. Perhaps 350 means it's made of Maraging steel. That would explain the difficulty to get it sharp. Maybe @Johnloc1 can join the discussion with his insights.

Maraging steels (a portmanteau of "martensitic" and "aging") are steels (iron alloys) that are known for possessing superior strength and toughness without losing ductility.

Maraging steels tend to be described by a number (200, 250, 300 or 350), which indicates the approximate nominal tensile strength in thousands of pounds per square inch;

In the sport of fencing, blades used in competitions run under the auspices of the Fédération Internationale d'Escrime are usually made with maraging steel. Maraging blades are superior for foil and épée because crack propagation in maraging steel is 10 times slower than in carbon steel, resulting in less blade breakage and fewer injuries. Stainless maraging steel is used in bicycle frames and golf club heads. It is also used in surgical components and hypodermic syringes, but is not suitable for scalpel blades because the lack of carbon prevents it from holding a good cutting edge.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

@Chan Eil Whiskers

Interesting. Perhaps 350 means it's made of Maraging steel. That would explain the difficulty to get it sharp. Maybe @Johnloc1 can join the discussion with his insights.

Maraging steels (a portmanteau of "martensitic" and "aging") are steels (iron alloys) that are known for possessing superior strength and toughness without losing ductility.

Maraging steels tend to be described by a number (200, 250, 300 or 350), which indicates the approximate nominal tensile strength in thousands of pounds per square inch;

In the sport of fencing, blades used in competitions run under the auspices of the Fédération Internationale d'Escrime are usually made with maraging steel. Maraging blades are superior for foil and épée because crack propagation in maraging steel is 10 times slower than in carbon steel, resulting in less blade breakage and fewer injuries. Stainless maraging steel is used in bicycle frames and golf club heads. It is also used in surgical components and hypodermic syringes, but is not suitable for scalpel blades because the lack of carbon prevents it from holding a good cutting edge.

Interesting. Makes me wonder.

 

[paintflinger]

Interesting. Makes me wonder.

Jim, when you're using the choseras, does it feel harder on the stone? Every time I've honed a swedish or other hard steel razor, you really can feel the difference on the hone.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

from the spine and edge wear hugh in the middle, it looks most probable it is warped, is it the wear opposite on the other side?
even so, it should still be okay to hone with appropriate strokes.

I see exactly what you mean.

I have not precisely compared the razor's two spine sides nor the two sides of the edge. I know the edges are not exactly the same on both sides and I'm sure that reflects either a warped blade or a previously messed up spine.

I think I've gotten the bevel to the point where it's right more than likely reasonably good or actually okay. I've used the burr method and gotten a burr, but somehow I'm not 1000% on this edge. I'd say about 99.8% on the bevel. The stone is beginning to behave better, a lot better, on the 12K stone and on the Ark. Over the weekend I'm going to work on this blade some more.

As I've mentioned I have shaved with this blade. It's not entirely to my liking (far from the standard I have), but it will shave.

It may not be worth the work except as a teaching tool and a learning exercise but that's okay. I am reasonably convinced that it's not a razor shaped object and that it can be successfully honed. Whether by me or not I'm not sure.

My options are these.

• Go back to the 1K one more time and do the progression.
• Instead just go to the Norton Hard Translucent Arkansas and do a thousand laps.
• Instead use the new coticle.
• Etc.

I have never used a coticle but I now have one waiting in the wings. I think I will use oil on it from the get go.

Jim, when you're using the choseras, does it feel harder on the stone? Every time I've honed a swedish or other hard steel razor, you really can feel the difference on the hone.

I perhaps wasn't clear enough in my stone descriptions, but I have only one Chosera stone, my 1K.

Spoiler: My stones are these...

Sort of a hodgepodge.

• 1K (Naniwa New Chosera)
• 3K (Naniwa S2 Super Stone)
• 5K (Shapton Kuromaku Ceramic Waterstone)
• 8K (Steelex Deluxe Japanese Ceramic Waterstone)
• 12K (Shapton Kuromaku Ceramic Waterstone)
• Hard Black Arkansas (HBA) finishing stone
• Hard Translucent Arkansas (HTA) finishing stone
  
• Zulu Grey finishing stone (never used yet)
• New rectangular coticle and slurry stone (not yet used)
• Coticle bout in transit

That's it.

I can't say I notice the razor feeling harder on the stone, but perhaps I'm not quite understanding exactly what you mean?

I notice different stones feeling harder or softer than one another. Razors, I'm not sure.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[dundak]

I applaud your perseverance. In my advanced years I have come to the conclusion that if I can't get a bevel on it at ~1k in 15 minutes then it's not worth chasing. I know it's probably cause to revoke my honers card but there are too many razors out there with good geometry.

 

[Twelvefret]

I applaud your perseverance. In my advanced years I have come to the conclusion that if I can't get a bevel on it at ~1k in 15 minutes then it's not worth chasing. I know it's probably cause to revoke my honers card but there are too many razors out there with good geometry.

How long have you been using straights?

 

[dundak]

How long have you been using straights?

40+ years. I know some guys are into restoring razors but in my myopic view they sometimes try to use hone gymnastics on razors that really need a regrind or be cabinet queens for historical purposes. YMMV.


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