Doing the same shave off from two different people doesn't do anything but highlight, again, the million variables introduced by 2 dens, 2 faces, 2 preps, 2 techniques, etc. etc. etc. It muddies my waters. At least by confining these comparisons to a single face, the variables are less...variable. I'm glad the Fatip waited 158 pages in to make an appearance. I'm gladder it was short lived. Put it in the box Frankie. I'll take the Charcoal Goods Level 2 for the win brother.
The World Shave Off Showdown
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Excellent point James and one to be taken very seriously as I never gave it any thought about how that brings in so many variables that could be debated for decades as we did get just a touch of that involving the Fatip. As you know I've shaved with over 200 different razors from $10 razors up to the very high end along with very commonly found vintage razors such as the Tech and Slim to some very rare and hard to find razors and again everything in between.
I trust in my technique that I can quickly analyze the characteristics of most razors and again for me this last Shave Off was no contest when it came to smoothness. The SC basically was noticeably smoother and therefore the winner.
This whole Shave Off has been about one man's opinion and point of view on the experiences I've had with many different razors be they modern or vintage and I can see where it could get very muddled up with to many Shave Offs. being done by to many people. I have in the past been lucky enough to have people fill in for me when I had my surgery and when I was out for a while and it was very much appreciate that help and backup came from a few members who took time out of their busy schedule to fill in for me when I needed backup. I'm all good now ( Well except for this darn Flu that keeps hanging on ) and I know you don't have any love for the Fatip as you've had one and it never gave you the shave that a lot of other razors give you and I've had other members say they felt the same about the much loved Fatip but I suppose it like you say " each face" each blade " etc. will be different with so many variables. So the Fatip is in the box again as it lost in the most important area vs the SC and that was smoothness so it's out of this competition for now. Of course my curiosity always gets the best of me so one of these days I'll try @Esox Shallow angle to see if my shaving experience and viewpoint is different than his or @Cal Next time I'll load 2 Feathers in the razors and lets see how smooth they both are.
Thanks for the post and a completely different viewpoint that I'm sure most will have their opinions on. I've seen how a lot of threads also get muddled with drama and that's one thing I don't want to happen in this thread. An what I want members to remember throughout this entire Shave Off is this one's all about " Smoothness " Not efficiency or how long a shave lasts or how many passes is needed to achieve a particular level of Shave like a DFS or BBS for example.
Ok time to move on to the next Shave Off.
Thanks my friend for a excellent post!
DB
The more blade exposure a razor has the shallower the angle I use it at. I like the blade as close to parallel to my skin as I cant get it. Thats also an easier angle to reach with a lot of blade gap in the design too. Using razors that have a lot of gap, like my Slim on 9, I ride the cap as much as possible.
And on the other hand, I'm a predominantly steep angle shaver. I ride the guard to stretch my skin in front of the blade (see the second boxed "benefit" from the left in the pic below).
Proud member of the Steep Angle Shavers Alliance (SASA).
And on the other hand, I'm a predominantly steep angle shaver. I ride the guard to stretch my skin in front of the blade (see the second boxed "benefit" from the left in the pic below).
Proud member of the Steep Angle Shavers Alliance (SASA).
Works out to the same idea really, with a completely different feel.
SC is smooth isnt it Cal.
Regarding Frank's first "Smoothness" Shave Off:
Well, I had my NEW SC shave and was quite surprised. Bear in mind that my Fatip OC has a custom (short, lightweight) handle, so it isn't a Grande. I scored my shaves as per "Frank's Smoothness Parameters."
Fatip OC
50 Smoothness
15 Efficiency
08 Balance
04 Maneuverability
04 Glide
81 Total
Gillette NEW SC
45 Smoothness
17 Efficiency
08 Balance
04 Maneuverability
04 Glide
78 Total
So my beloved Fatip won, but only by the tiniest margin.
View attachment 954756
That was a good lesson learned. Thank you Frank.
I've been practicing "razor monogamy" for too long; it's back to flirting for me again (except for when I have a new razor to "dial in").
I think the whole point of these 3100 + posts was that there is no such thing as "razor monogamy" & one man AKA Dragonsbeard is trying to level the playing field by giving us his experiences as are the other guest reviewers. But I do like that term.
This thread is noticeably free of drama. I think you set the standard of civility from the beginning and everyone has followed. This thread has become my most enjoyable in B&B.
Thats it yep! These are your experiences that others may, or may not, learn from or relate too. Berating your experience is pointless and has no bearing. We're all different and even if we used the exact same kit, our shaves would still vary greatly.
There is no 'best' for everyone, but there is a best for each of us. Fun trying to find it huh? lol
Looking forward to the next showdown
Oooo Just in time. I have been of the grid for a bit.
Hi BigJ
The Mergress hasn't hit my den yet so I'm are doing a different Shave Off using the Charcoal Goods Level 2 OC vs the 1936 Aristocrat. The Shave Off will be posted later this afternoon.
Thanks my friend!
Thanks for the update! Should be a good match!!
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Shave Off complete:
Charcoal Goods Level 2 OC vs Gillette Aristocrat 1936
Sorry it's taken as long as it did to post this Shave Off up but I've been battling a really bad case of the flu all week and boy it knocked the heck out of me and all I've wanted to do is rest and sleep. Feeling better but still half in the bag and heading to the Docs on Monday.
I did this Shave Off yesterday morning shortly after getting up. After shaving for 4 days I was a bit worried that both of these razors would have some difficulty taking it down in 2 passes as I'd normally choose a razor that would be more efficient than these two like a Level 3 Charcoal, Ikon Tech for example but I'm not chasing a BBS I'm testing these razors for smoothness not efficiency. Both of these razors to me are just beautiful razor in different ways. The US 1936 Aristocrat is one of my favorite US models along with the 1934 and I just got this one back from Cap and Chris as I had the razor out to them for a cleaning and at first I was just going to have the doors replated and Chris messaged me saying he thought I might want to consider doing the whole razor as there was some brassing he saw that I didn't so I gave him the green light and wow it came back looking like it was brand new. Cap went over the whole razor to make sure it was clean inside and aligned properly so when I got it back it had that new razor squeak that a TTO razor would have when new. Very pleased as usual with their work. The Charcoal Goods Level 2 is almost 2yrs old as I've had my level 3 OC since it was first released a few yrs back. Brian makes in my opinion the most artfully crafted razors out there. His handles are so unique and this Level 2 has an Anchor handle which I really like. Both head and handle are antique finished like my Level 3 and the finish has held up great. As per Brian's instructions I rinse and blot the razor dry ( NEVER WIPE DRY ) and now and then give it a coating of also recommended by Brian Renaissance wax. The two razors are night and day different as one is a 3 piece and the other a TTO. The CG is a longer and overall heavier razor. CG is 102 grams while the Crat is only 68 grams so both have a completely different feel to them..but thing is I like them both a lot!
NOTE: for all you CG fans over a year ago I was on the phone with Brian as we talk now and then and I was saying if you ever redesign the head think about making the baseplate flat like a New Deluxe instead of the New type which is the current head we all know and love. My reasoning was for better blade support and maybe it would give a bit more blade rigidity than the current head does. Well I don't know if I had any influence whatsoever on his idea of a new head as he already had the idea as he and I talked about a new head in the future but he just announced the release of a new head and it has a flat baseplate so all I know is he's coming out with the level 2 first and will be adding other levels down the road. I'm really excited to try the new head but I'm going to wait until he comes out with the Level 3 baseplate and this time I'm going to get a SB for a little diversity. Just thought I'd share that with any CG fans out there.
On with the Shave Off
Gear used:
Charcoal Goods Level 2 OC
Gillette 1936 US Aristocrat
Capt Choice Copper shaving bowl
Paladin Two band brush
WSP Olympus Shave Soap
WSP Olympus Aftershave splash
Kai razor blades hand stroped
Shave plan: I decided to do 2 passes going WTG and ATG as to me a razor really gives me the most feedback on how smooth it shaves doing these 2 passes. Also as normal I sectioned my face in 4 sections with each razor getting 1 section on each side of my face to make things fair. Also as normal I'm using my SSSST using no pressure whatsoever.
1st Pass - WTG - I started out with the Gillette Aristocrat going N to S and I'll be honest it was taking down my stubble pretty darn good considering 4 full days growth even thought it seemed to be working hard to do it. Blade feel was there as I remember it to be using the 36 in the past US vs England Aristocrat Showdown so nothing has changed there and it was also singing a decently loud song as far as audible feedback goes but it wasn't harsh feeling just to be clear. It was also as all my Aristocrats are very maneuverable razors as this one did very well around my mouth and under my nose. Also I'll note to me the Aristocrat barberpole handle to me is one of the best ever designed not to mention they are beauties in my opinion. So an overall good pass. Next up was the CG L 2 as I continued down my neck and from the first few strokes I knew that the CG was more efficient but blade feel at this point was even more than the Crat but not by much. Audible feedback was not quite as loud as the Crat but close. So it didn't seem to labor as much taking down my 4 days growth but my guess is because the blade is not held very rigid it makes more noise than if it did. The Kai blade was performing as normal and is one of my favorites behind the Feather. So finished the pass and it was also a good one so far and smoothness as pretty much a tie at this point between the two razors. So with the CG in hand I headed over to the other side and began my N to S pass on my face and I noticed on this pass the efficiency difference between the two even more with the CG being the leader and it was another good pass. Picked up the Aristocrat to continue the WTG pass on my neck and this side is easier than the other side which has that nasty cowlick and some really weird beard growth so this pass was the easiest of the 4 sections and the Crat did a good job but still from the sound was working hard. So a good WTG pass from both razors. Rinsed and lathered up for the ATG Pass.
2nd Pass - ATG - So starting at the base of my neck with the CG L 2 I gave my skin a good stretch using my hand towel and started my S to N journey upwards and it was noticeable that the CG quilted down and there was less blade feel than there was on the WTG pass. I could feel the razor taking the stubble down as it moved upward to under my jawline which is were it was the Aristocrats turn to finish this pass on my face. It was here that I noticed the difference in smoothness as the blade feel and audible feedback although it to had quitted down it was not as noticeable as it was with the CG on this ATG pass so I felt it was slightly falling behind the CG in both smoothness and efficiency but it was as far as maneuverability goes this is where is excelled especially around my mouth and under my nose where I did a XTG as I didn't feel like going ATG under my nose as it was a little raw from having a bad cold/flu. So with this pass more info came out than on the WTG pass and so I went over to the other side of my face and not to be redundant it was pretty much the same thing as on the other side. So the Shave Off was over.
Post Shave: Rinsed my face with warm then cold water. Went to the fridge and splashed a little Thayers unscented on and let it dry while cleaning my gear. Then splashed on some WSP Olympus aftershave which to me is the closest to actual Creed Aventus so far of all the other dupes I've tried. Also I'll note the Formula T is my favorite WSP soap is an overall good performer.
Scores:
Charcoal Goods Level 2 OC
1. Smoothness = 49 points
2. Efficiency = 16 points
3. Balance = 6 points
4. Maneuverability = 3 points
5. Glide = 3 points
Total score = 78 points
1936 US Aristocrat
1. Smoothness = 44 points
2. Efficiency = 14 points
3. Balance = 8 points
4. Maneuverability = 4 points
5. Glide = 3 points
Total score = 73 points
Summary:
So we have a winner by points scored it's the Charcoal Goods Level 2 OC! This was a fairly close one but I will say both razors had to deal with a solid 4 days growth and I'd say they both handled it pretty good. I ended up with a solid DFS with a couple of spots on my upper cheek where it felt entry level BBS. I'm not sure if the results would have been different though they might be with only 2 days growth but in this Shave Off the Charcoal was the winner and with the more efficient and in my opinion smoother British 1st and 2nd Gens in this competition who knows if the CG will meet up with one of those and see how it compares. We've got a long way to go and I feel like I lost at least 1 Shave Off because of me being sick but I should be back on track doing Shave Offs moving forward.
Thanks all and great Shaves my friends!
DB
Charcoal Goods Level 2 OC vs Gillette Aristocrat 1936
Sorry it's taken as long as it did to post this Shave Off up but I've been battling a really bad case of the flu all week and boy it knocked the heck out of me and all I've wanted to do is rest and sleep. Feeling better but still half in the bag and heading to the Docs on Monday.
I did this Shave Off yesterday morning shortly after getting up. After shaving for 4 days I was a bit worried that both of these razors would have some difficulty taking it down in 2 passes as I'd normally choose a razor that would be more efficient than these two like a Level 3 Charcoal, Ikon Tech for example but I'm not chasing a BBS I'm testing these razors for smoothness not efficiency. Both of these razors to me are just beautiful razor in different ways. The US 1936 Aristocrat is one of my favorite US models along with the 1934 and I just got this one back from Cap and Chris as I had the razor out to them for a cleaning and at first I was just going to have the doors replated and Chris messaged me saying he thought I might want to consider doing the whole razor as there was some brassing he saw that I didn't so I gave him the green light and wow it came back looking like it was brand new. Cap went over the whole razor to make sure it was clean inside and aligned properly so when I got it back it had that new razor squeak that a TTO razor would have when new. Very pleased as usual with their work. The Charcoal Goods Level 2 is almost 2yrs old as I've had my level 3 OC since it was first released a few yrs back. Brian makes in my opinion the most artfully crafted razors out there. His handles are so unique and this Level 2 has an Anchor handle which I really like. Both head and handle are antique finished like my Level 3 and the finish has held up great. As per Brian's instructions I rinse and blot the razor dry ( NEVER WIPE DRY ) and now and then give it a coating of also recommended by Brian Renaissance wax. The two razors are night and day different as one is a 3 piece and the other a TTO. The CG is a longer and overall heavier razor. CG is 102 grams while the Crat is only 68 grams so both have a completely different feel to them..but thing is I like them both a lot!
NOTE: for all you CG fans over a year ago I was on the phone with Brian as we talk now and then and I was saying if you ever redesign the head think about making the baseplate flat like a New Deluxe instead of the New type which is the current head we all know and love. My reasoning was for better blade support and maybe it would give a bit more blade rigidity than the current head does. Well I don't know if I had any influence whatsoever on his idea of a new head as he already had the idea as he and I talked about a new head in the future but he just announced the release of a new head and it has a flat baseplate so all I know is he's coming out with the level 2 first and will be adding other levels down the road. I'm really excited to try the new head but I'm going to wait until he comes out with the Level 3 baseplate and this time I'm going to get a SB for a little diversity. Just thought I'd share that with any CG fans out there.
On with the Shave Off
Gear used:
Charcoal Goods Level 2 OC
Gillette 1936 US Aristocrat
Capt Choice Copper shaving bowl
Paladin Two band brush
WSP Olympus Shave Soap
WSP Olympus Aftershave splash
Kai razor blades hand stroped
Shave plan: I decided to do 2 passes going WTG and ATG as to me a razor really gives me the most feedback on how smooth it shaves doing these 2 passes. Also as normal I sectioned my face in 4 sections with each razor getting 1 section on each side of my face to make things fair. Also as normal I'm using my SSSST using no pressure whatsoever.
1st Pass - WTG - I started out with the Gillette Aristocrat going N to S and I'll be honest it was taking down my stubble pretty darn good considering 4 full days growth even thought it seemed to be working hard to do it. Blade feel was there as I remember it to be using the 36 in the past US vs England Aristocrat Showdown so nothing has changed there and it was also singing a decently loud song as far as audible feedback goes but it wasn't harsh feeling just to be clear. It was also as all my Aristocrats are very maneuverable razors as this one did very well around my mouth and under my nose. Also I'll note to me the Aristocrat barberpole handle to me is one of the best ever designed not to mention they are beauties in my opinion. So an overall good pass. Next up was the CG L 2 as I continued down my neck and from the first few strokes I knew that the CG was more efficient but blade feel at this point was even more than the Crat but not by much. Audible feedback was not quite as loud as the Crat but close. So it didn't seem to labor as much taking down my 4 days growth but my guess is because the blade is not held very rigid it makes more noise than if it did. The Kai blade was performing as normal and is one of my favorites behind the Feather. So finished the pass and it was also a good one so far and smoothness as pretty much a tie at this point between the two razors. So with the CG in hand I headed over to the other side and began my N to S pass on my face and I noticed on this pass the efficiency difference between the two even more with the CG being the leader and it was another good pass. Picked up the Aristocrat to continue the WTG pass on my neck and this side is easier than the other side which has that nasty cowlick and some really weird beard growth so this pass was the easiest of the 4 sections and the Crat did a good job but still from the sound was working hard. So a good WTG pass from both razors. Rinsed and lathered up for the ATG Pass.
2nd Pass - ATG - So starting at the base of my neck with the CG L 2 I gave my skin a good stretch using my hand towel and started my S to N journey upwards and it was noticeable that the CG quilted down and there was less blade feel than there was on the WTG pass. I could feel the razor taking the stubble down as it moved upward to under my jawline which is were it was the Aristocrats turn to finish this pass on my face. It was here that I noticed the difference in smoothness as the blade feel and audible feedback although it to had quitted down it was not as noticeable as it was with the CG on this ATG pass so I felt it was slightly falling behind the CG in both smoothness and efficiency but it was as far as maneuverability goes this is where is excelled especially around my mouth and under my nose where I did a XTG as I didn't feel like going ATG under my nose as it was a little raw from having a bad cold/flu. So with this pass more info came out than on the WTG pass and so I went over to the other side of my face and not to be redundant it was pretty much the same thing as on the other side. So the Shave Off was over.
Post Shave: Rinsed my face with warm then cold water. Went to the fridge and splashed a little Thayers unscented on and let it dry while cleaning my gear. Then splashed on some WSP Olympus aftershave which to me is the closest to actual Creed Aventus so far of all the other dupes I've tried. Also I'll note the Formula T is my favorite WSP soap is an overall good performer.
Scores:
Charcoal Goods Level 2 OC
1. Smoothness = 49 points
2. Efficiency = 16 points
3. Balance = 6 points
4. Maneuverability = 3 points
5. Glide = 3 points
Total score = 78 points
1936 US Aristocrat
1. Smoothness = 44 points
2. Efficiency = 14 points
3. Balance = 8 points
4. Maneuverability = 4 points
5. Glide = 3 points
Total score = 73 points
Summary:
So we have a winner by points scored it's the Charcoal Goods Level 2 OC! This was a fairly close one but I will say both razors had to deal with a solid 4 days growth and I'd say they both handled it pretty good. I ended up with a solid DFS with a couple of spots on my upper cheek where it felt entry level BBS. I'm not sure if the results would have been different though they might be with only 2 days growth but in this Shave Off the Charcoal was the winner and with the more efficient and in my opinion smoother British 1st and 2nd Gens in this competition who knows if the CG will meet up with one of those and see how it compares. We've got a long way to go and I feel like I lost at least 1 Shave Off because of me being sick but I should be back on track doing Shave Offs moving forward.
Thanks all and great Shaves my friends!
DB
Great write up! That 'Crat is an absolute beauty! I was wondering if they would be similar scores, I've never used the CG but have do have a 36 'Crat that is a great shaver and has a great fun factor.
I'm slightly surprised that the CG was in the 80s like the NEW SC but, like I've said, I've never used the CG. This was a great write up and really enjoying the shave-offs scoring for the smoothest razor!
I know how smooth the CG Lvl-2 is. Sounds like the Aristocrats are amazing razors. I'm looking forward to trying my first, although I ordered a Brit.
I hope the CGL2 finds its way up against the NEW SC...I enjoy both very much and it would be a great matchup!
Very good shave off Frank. Both of those razors have the COOL factor. I would like to try an aristocrat some day but from your description I would like the Brits better because of the added efficiency and smoothness. Glad you are feeling some better.
I don't know why but I would like to see the RFB vs Mamba or what ever you decide.
Happy shaves my friend
Jason
I don't know why but I would like to see the RFB vs Mamba or what ever you decide.
Happy shaves my friend
Jason
I'm just venturing into Aristocrats, I don't know the generation. It is a #21.
Nice shave off my friend. Get some rest, drinks lots of liquids.
Thanks Jason and anytime you want to try an Aristocrat just let me know and I'll send one your way of course if it's not in the Shave off. Also good suggestion on the Mamba vs RFB. I may have to give that more thought. Thats why I really enjoy it when members add their thoughts and suggestions to this thread.
Thanks Frank I will that you up on that at some point soon. Well it toke a while but your enabling finally got to me again haha. I am glad to say a friend has sold me my first Wolfman, a wr1 86sb. I am very much looking forward to trying it out when it arrives. I know everyone has seen one but I am posting a picture anyway.
Thanks Jared
This thread is lots of fun but also expensive. Seriously though Frank thanks for all you have done to help me find some razors that are great for me and for the SSSST technique that has improved my shaves tremendously.
Happy shaves my friend
Jason
