Thinning the tang on Gold dallors

[Southbound1]

Hello,
Im curious what is the best way to thin the tang on a GD? Do u do that after I thin the spine, then move the hollow grind farther up the blade? Or do I thin/taper the tang first? Does the tang so far back have to be in harmony or on the same plane as the spine?

 

[global_dev]

i would thin the tang last. how are you moving the grind higher? 2x72, 1x30?

i think you can taper the spine to the tang past the pivot and it should be fine.

 

[Southbound1]

"global_dev, post: 10051659, member: 29839"]i would thin the tang last. how are you moving the grind higher? 2x72, 1x30?

i think you can taper the spine to the tang past the pivot and it should be fine.


I am using a 3×18 dragster. So if thin the tang last, will that change the spine
angle to were the tang meets the spine? Meaning as I am thinning the tang, I will naturally grind a little ways into the spine to where the tang actually meets the razor/spine? So would that throw the angle off on the heel when honing?

 

[global_dev]

i dont see how the heel should be an issue if you are just honing the spine above the edge, unless i am missing something.

 

[Southbound1]

]i dont see how the heel should be an issue if you are just honing the spine above the edge, unless i am missing something.

No your correct. I was thinking that if a fellow thinned the tang last that it would be easy to mess up and grind into the corrected spine, while thinning the tang.

 

[global_dev]

i’m thinking any tang thinning should be very minimal and easy to transition from a thinned spine.

 

[Ice-Man]

By thinning the spine to get a better bevel angle or just for looks, if its for bevel angle then you need to get a bevel calculator. Work out the bevel req then thin both sides even, because if you go to much it will throw the blade out and make it very hard to hone.
This is one I did last year for the gold dollar mod contest and the bevel is at 16.5 degrees,


To thin the spine and tang there is a lot involved you will need Digital Vernier Caliper



Info on what you need to know BevelCalcKavik79.xls

and a fantastic thread to read Bevel Angle Calculation
Hope this helps you in your quest.

 

[Luecke2326]

By thinning the spine to get a better bevel angle or just for looks, if its for bevel angle then you need to get a bevel calculator. Work out the bevel req then thin both sides even, because if you go to much it will throw the blade out and make it very hard to hone.
This is one I did last year for the gold dollar mod contest and the bevel is at 16.5 degrees,
View attachment 952377 View attachment 952378

To thin the spine and tang there is a lot involved you will need Digital Vernier Caliper

View attachment 952379

Info on what you need to know BevelCalcKavik79.xls

and a fantastic thread to read Bevel Angle Calculation
Hope this helps you in your quest.

Ian, you need to break that razor out from time to time. I hear fine Chinese steel needs to be used or you loose it. Well something like that or I'm full of BS.... BS more likely....

 

[Ice-Man]

Ian, you need to break that razor out from time to time. I hear fine Chinese steel needs to be used or you loose it. Well something like that or I'm full of BS.... BS more likely....

Hmmm its funny you say that, as I was looking for it and could I find it nope. But spotted it in my sons room yes he is guilty of borrowing it, And I'm happy as he is trying to learn to shave with a straight so a great result.

Now I had to lay the law down and gave him some to use but leave the ones alone in the draw including my Karrat and a few others.….

 

[Biglo13]

By thinning the spine to get a better bevel angle or just for looks, if its for bevel angle then you need to get a bevel calculator. Work out the bevel req then thin both sides even, because if you go to much it will throw the blade out and make it very hard to hone.
This is one I did last year for the gold dollar mod contest and the bevel is at 16.5 degrees,
View attachment 952377 View attachment 952378

To thin the spine and tang there is a lot involved you will need Digital Vernier Caliper

View attachment 952379

Info on what you need to know BevelCalcKavik79.xls

and a fantastic thread to read Bevel Angle Calculation
Hope this helps you in your quest.

How are you thinning spine, what tools? (My first try not so pretty)

 

[bluesman 7]

I am using a 3×18 dragster. So if thin the tang last, will that change the spine
angle to were the tang meets the spine? Meaning as I am thinning the tang, I will naturally grind a little ways into the spine to where the tang actually meets the razor/spine? So would that throw the angle off on the heel when honing?

Didn't you also grind the tang a bit as you thinned the spine?

I generally bring the spine and tang to the same max thickness dimension, then bring the taper back up to close to the spine/tang transition but not into the spine.

 

[Ice-Man]

I use a Dragster and or wet and dry emery paper on a marble slab, that I know is flat but it depends on my mood or how much I want to take off.

 

[Kooldecker]

hey guys i have a question . its a bit off topic but are you guys doing the filework on those gold dollars too? or do they come that way. and if your doing it what are you using? i just figured they were hardened already and not really machinable. sorry for being off topic i just need a quickie answer and ill be on my way. that blade looks sexy as heck by the way!

 

[Ice-Man]

hey guys i have a question . its a bit off topic but are you guys doing the filework on those gold dollars too? or do they come that way. and if your doing it what are you using? i just figured they were hardened already and not really machinable. sorry for being off topic i just need a quickie answer and ill be on my way. that blade looks sexy as heck by the way!

That was done using a file on the spine, the blade shaping was with the dragster. And iced water for when the blade started to get warm it was dunked in the water to cool it down...
A lot can be done on Gold Dollar 66 if you do a search on Gold Dollar mod contest some fantastic mods on a gold dollar

 

[Southbound1]

By thinning the spine to get a better bevel angle or just for looks, if its for bevel angle then you need to get a bevel calculator. Work out the bevel req then thin both sides even, because if you go to much it will throw the blade out and make it very hard to hone.
This is one I did last year for the gold dollar mod contest and the bevel is at 16.5 degrees,
View attachment 952377 View attachment 952378

To thin the spine and tang there is a lot involved you will need Digital Vernier Caliper

View attachment 952379

Info on what you need to know BevelCalcKavik79.xls

and a fantastic thread to read Bevel Angle Calculation
Hope this helps you in your quest.

I am waiting on my Gd from china. Lol A long wait ! Nice scales! What are they made from? What tools did you use to make those? Did you freehand draw them out on paper first? I thinned moved the hollow grind farther up the blade with a dragster sander on a ZY. I was hand sanding and it accidentally bumped the toe on the table and cracked the entire toe!
Oh I forgot to ask what is the best way to round over the sharp corners/edges of the spine and tang, after I get it to my desired thickness?

 

[Ice-Man]

I am waiting on my Gd from china. Lol A long wait ! Nice scales! What are they made from? What tools did you use to make those? Did you freehand draw them out on paper first? I thinned moved the hollow grind farther up the blade with a dragster sander on a ZY. I was hand sanding and it accidentally bumped the toe on the table and cracked the entire toe!
Oh I forgot to ask what is the best way to round over the sharp corners/edges of the spine and tang, after I get it to my desired thickness?

The scales are G10 ghost jade and yes the scales was cut for that Gold Dollar, to round the edges I use a dremel with a sanding drum.
For cutting the scales I use a fret saw then the dragster to shape them level then wet and dry up to 8000 grit then polish by hand.

 

[Southbound1]

The scales are G10 ghost jade and yes the scales was cut for that Gold Dollar, to round the edges I use a dremel with a sanding drum.
For cutting the scales I use a fret saw then the dragster to shape them level then wet and dry up to 8000 grit then polish by hand.

Nice work. Maybe one day I will get to that level. How thick do you buy your scale stock? I'm just going to do regrinding first by taking the original scales off and regrind the blade , then re-use the original scales. How do you recommend to round the spine and tang back over after I thin the tang and grind out? When thinning it will make the edges of the tang and spine square. I don't have a dremel yet.

 

[Slash McCoy]

First operation of course is removing the monstrous abortion of a heel and stabilizer.

I have done it both ways but I prefer to thin the shank somewhat, first, sanding flat on a belt sander. Final thickness here is the finished thickness of the last razor completed, plus about .005". Thinning extends a short distance onto the spine. Then using the spine as a guide I straighten the edge. Then I use the edge as a guide to thin the spine, so edge and spine are perfectly parallel. With a very thin blade, as mine are when finished, if the edge and spine are not parallel then simple honing can lead to one sided bevels at heel and toe. The bevel angle is determined mostly by this stage, of course. Then I go back to the shank/tang and thin so that it does not intrude into the honing plane even when overrunning the shoulder onto the hone. Only spine and edge touch. This last thinning stage is not with the blade perfectly horizontal. Instead, there is a slight taper from top to bottom which is necessary due to the bevel plane. The whole idea here is to ensure that NO steel intrudes into the honing plane except the spine and edge bevels.

Once this is all done, the vestiges of the shoulder are faired away and the hollowgrind is pushed up into the spine, reducing the bevel flat on the spine so that the spine can easily be rounded back to as-new appearance and so that a monstrously huge spine is not presented to the hone. These two steps are sort of done together in fits and starts, usually. The result is a very flowy liquidy general shape. I set a preliminary bevel here. Coarse sanding of the entire razor is done, and at the 200 grit level I usually rough profile nose and heel. More sanding, and at the 1000 grit level I do final profiling and smoothing of end surfaces, then proceed up through 2kgrit sandpaper. I touch up the bevel here. Then diamond paste beginning with 3.0u and ending at 0.1u. Scale, and hone to a finished edge.

Again, the goal is not just a thinner spine, but also complete absence of any shoulder formation that could ride up onto the hone and lift the heel. Also the spine should end up nicely rounded and if thought of as a rod or tube with a blade attached to it, reasonably well rounded and of smallest practical diameter. Functionally, I believe this results in a razor much superior to the run of the mill factory straight. Honing is dead easy, grip is ergonomic, bevel angle is deliberate and not simply a product of supplied bar stock thickness and desired blade width. Or available forgings. One could even make a set spanning a range of bevel angles, to determine preference or to compensate for more or less growth or the prevailing shaving environment. I have been meaning to do that, myself, to figure out just where my sweet spot lies, because it is kind of hard to nail down. There is an entire degree of range where honestly I can't tell the difference except in an actual head to head comparison. It would be cool to absolutely nail it down to a tenth of a degree or so. Finer than that and the vagaries of honing will render exact bevel angle as made, moot, after a decade or two, I postulate.

There is a lot of wiggle room there but this is generally the way I do it.

 

[paintflinger]

By thinning the spine to get a better bevel angle or just for looks, if its for bevel angle then you need to get a bevel calculator. Work out the bevel req then thin both sides even, because if you go to much it will throw the blade out and make it very hard to hone.
This is one I did last year for the gold dollar mod contest and the bevel is at 16.5 degrees,
View attachment 952377 View attachment 952378

To thin the spine and tang there is a lot involved you will need Digital Vernier Caliper

View attachment 952379

Info on what you need to know BevelCalcKavik79.xls

and a fantastic thread to read Bevel Angle Calculation
Hope this helps you in your quest.

Digging that Jnat Ian...oh and the razor too I love ghost jade scales.

 

[Ice-Man]

Digging that Jnat Ian...oh and the razor too I love ghost jade scales.

Thank you Derek!!! just wish I could get those marks out of it, but I think it was a diamond plate to get slurry but I will get there.....its name is Shobudani Karasu Namazu Asia Koppa. 5/5+

The ghost jade I had one hell of a job getting those as nobody wanted to send to the UK saying it would cost to much..