To tape or not to tape, that is the question.
- Thread starter Ponks123
- Start date
I would use none until you get the geometry straight. After that it's up to you.
- Thread starter
- #4
measure the geometry?
I used I layer on a Wade and Butcher Full Wedge.
The angle. You measure the spine by the hone wear and the length from where the hone wear is to the end of the edge. And you determine the angle. I have it on my computer but I haven't used it in years. Most likely the razor is in an acceptabke range. Hone it .Shave it. If you find one to be a very sloppy shaver that may be the reason.
I reset the bevel on every razor I receive in case tape was used to hone it as tape eventually ruins the geometry of a hollow ground razor. If the edge is honed and the spine is not, the edge becomes more obtuse.
As a novice, especially to honing, I see three uses for taping the spine.
Taping the spine will eventually lead to a bevel too obtuse to produce a good shave. It is good the spine is undamaged at this point, you have a beautiful wall hanger.
Of course that is based on my priorities. Someone wanting a beautiful razor, and doesn't mind that years later it won't be usable, is fine. I mean at my age, I'll probably be too shaky by the time that happened anyway, but I just can't see myself doing that to a tool. I don't tape my chisel to hone it. With a lot of work, they can still be made into tools again as well.
Oh, That is my thought process on why I am wondering if I'm missing anything reason why, for taping.
Are there other reasons?
- Maintain the beauty of the spine
- Maintain a bevel that was set with a taped spine assumedly for reason #1 or #3
- To ease the honing of a true wedge
Taping the spine will eventually lead to a bevel too obtuse to produce a good shave. It is good the spine is undamaged at this point, you have a beautiful wall hanger.
Of course that is based on my priorities. Someone wanting a beautiful razor, and doesn't mind that years later it won't be usable, is fine. I mean at my age, I'll probably be too shaky by the time that happened anyway, but I just can't see myself doing that to a tool. I don't tape my chisel to hone it.
With a lot of work, they can still be made into tools again as well.Oh, That is my thought process on why I am wondering if I'm missing anything reason why, for taping.
Are there other reasons?
kelbro
Alfred Spatchcock
I've never really messed with taping the spine unless I was doing some heavy work like chip removal. I've not owned many razors that were so nice that I wanted to protect the spine from hone wear.
I have a razor that I've used for over 40 yrs. Honed as needed. It started as a 6/8. It's still a 6/8 minus a tiny fraction.
It would take a WHOLE lot of honing with tape to change the angle to one that is unsuitable for a good shave.
I have a razor that I've used for over 40 yrs. Honed as needed. It started as a 6/8. It's still a 6/8 minus a tiny fraction.
It would take a WHOLE lot of honing with tape to change the angle to one that is unsuitable for a good shave.
I’m with Clay, right or wrong. I don't tape. It just abrades away as I go, gunking up the slurry and stones, changing the angle as I progress. I even tried gorilla tape to see if it lasted longer, then the glue became an obstacle as it exuded from behind. I obtained better results with not taping. It mean’t resetting one razor, but that had to be done for a chip anyway.
Last edited:
Thanks for the info, as a novice, I hadn't done any chip removals. Also, my experience with blade width reduction is from vintage razors. I had no practical experience on length of time it took, but realized it is more conceptual thing for me, not a practical reality. I would have had to started young for it to be part of my reality. I'm pushing double nickels, so little chance of me getting a razor to such a state.
Some people would have had a 11/16(or smaller) when they manage to set the bevel
Like most things honing, I had to go outside for help. Just two many conflicting opinions.
Only a barber honing a razor several (or many) times a day has to worry about wearing a razor out. In personal use with proper bevel set and no damage, honing is a very rare event.
Re-set the bevel every week using a coarse stone and a heavy hand, yeah, you may eventually grind one away, but if you don't damage the edge somehow you should never need to remove much steel once you have the bevel set.
Tape can be a "crutch" for someone with poor honing skills or inadequately flattened stones. Probably necessary on some very old wedges as they were actually intended to be honed free-hand and not with the spine in contact with the hone, or possibly some of the Pakistani razors I've seen that are both wide and thin spined -- they are reputed to have poor edges, quite possibly because they are too acute. Tape would fix that, so would honing with the spine above the stone free-hand.
Vintage razors were NOT designed to be honed with tape for the very obvious reason that tape, as we know it, did not exist then.
Re-set the bevel every week using a coarse stone and a heavy hand, yeah, you may eventually grind one away, but if you don't damage the edge somehow you should never need to remove much steel once you have the bevel set.
Tape can be a "crutch" for someone with poor honing skills or inadequately flattened stones. Probably necessary on some very old wedges as they were actually intended to be honed free-hand and not with the spine in contact with the hone, or possibly some of the Pakistani razors I've seen that are both wide and thin spined -- they are reputed to have poor edges, quite possibly because they are too acute. Tape would fix that, so would honing with the spine above the stone free-hand.
Vintage razors were NOT designed to be honed with tape for the very obvious reason that tape, as we know it, did not exist then.
Two of the best restorers and sellers on eBay use tape. I’ll let them know you think they have poor honing skills.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
This poor horse sure takes beating after beating. But once more into the fray.
The spine has a function. The spine is not decoration. The function is to determine the bevel angle. It is designed so that it wears more or less proportionally to the edge. A razor should last a couple hundred years. Even so, usually JUST HONING it will leave the bevel angle pretty much in the zone.
When you do heavy metal removal is when NOT taping the spine is MOST important. You are putting about ten years worth of wear on the edge all at once. "Protecting" the spine from "hone wear" is not a good idea here. Spine and edge are meant to wear together, in step.
A razor with a particularly acute bevel angle often benefits from taped honing, both short term (compound bevel) and long term (geometry correction). These are few and far between.
A razor with an extremely wide bevel surface can be tricky to hone because it takes so many good laps to remove any steel, and only one bad one to screw up the edge. And so a compound bevel achieved by adding a half dozen laps on the finisher with tape can often make the edge come to life like never before. This is mostly seen with wedges or near wedges, or half hollow or less hollow razors with generations of wear, that have seen the edge wear away until the bevel is up into the belly of the blade. Here a compound bevel can be helpful. It is best to keep the final microbevel very very small. A half dozen of the lightest laps usually will gitter done.
And speaking of wedges, yes most wedges are very thin at the spine and originally were honed with the spine elevated by about a fingernail thickness. A layer of 3M Super 88 to set a base bevel (it will probably be rather wide, possibly most of the width of the razor!!!) then an additional layer of 33 on top of that to run the progression, and finally another layer of 33 for 3 or 4 laps to form a microbevel is the way I do a full wedge, when I am stuck with doing one, which I dislike but sometimes have occasion to do. The edge comes out quite nice. Unfortunately, daily maintenance on diamond pasted balsa is out, with a tape honed razor, especially with so much tape. You don't want the tape gumming up the balsa. Here you might possibly paste a hanging strop but I abhor this practice myself and never do it. No reason you can't except that Slash says that sucks.
Some honers are switching to Kapton tape from vinyl, with good results.
MOST razors should NOT be honed with tape. If you don't know, don't use it. If the bevel is over 15deg, it is probably okay and can be honed without tape. Don't assume it is too acute. FIND OUT. KNOW it is, before just assuming.
Razors... are they tools, or jewelry? A work of art should probably not be honed at all. Build a nice case for it and put it on display if it is too pretty for the spine to touch a hone. Otherwise, it is a tool, and it is natural for tools to look as though they have been used. Don't fear the hone.
Okay so abusing the razor with taped honing will have small effect for the years you anticipate having and using it. What about the next 200 years of potential use? Learn to hone correctly, and teach your sons and grandsons to do it correctly, and pass those heirlooms on, because when you go to that great barbershop in the sky, they will indeed be heirlooms. Worthy of USE. If displayed proudly, they should look as though grampa just used them and has used them all his life. Just my dos centavos.
The spine has a function. The spine is not decoration. The function is to determine the bevel angle. It is designed so that it wears more or less proportionally to the edge. A razor should last a couple hundred years. Even so, usually JUST HONING it will leave the bevel angle pretty much in the zone.
When you do heavy metal removal is when NOT taping the spine is MOST important. You are putting about ten years worth of wear on the edge all at once. "Protecting" the spine from "hone wear" is not a good idea here. Spine and edge are meant to wear together, in step.
A razor with a particularly acute bevel angle often benefits from taped honing, both short term (compound bevel) and long term (geometry correction). These are few and far between.
A razor with an extremely wide bevel surface can be tricky to hone because it takes so many good laps to remove any steel, and only one bad one to screw up the edge. And so a compound bevel achieved by adding a half dozen laps on the finisher with tape can often make the edge come to life like never before. This is mostly seen with wedges or near wedges, or half hollow or less hollow razors with generations of wear, that have seen the edge wear away until the bevel is up into the belly of the blade. Here a compound bevel can be helpful. It is best to keep the final microbevel very very small. A half dozen of the lightest laps usually will gitter done.
And speaking of wedges, yes most wedges are very thin at the spine and originally were honed with the spine elevated by about a fingernail thickness. A layer of 3M Super 88 to set a base bevel (it will probably be rather wide, possibly most of the width of the razor!!!) then an additional layer of 33 on top of that to run the progression, and finally another layer of 33 for 3 or 4 laps to form a microbevel is the way I do a full wedge, when I am stuck with doing one, which I dislike but sometimes have occasion to do. The edge comes out quite nice. Unfortunately, daily maintenance on diamond pasted balsa is out, with a tape honed razor, especially with so much tape. You don't want the tape gumming up the balsa. Here you might possibly paste a hanging strop but I abhor this practice myself and never do it. No reason you can't except that Slash says that sucks.
Some honers are switching to Kapton tape from vinyl, with good results.
MOST razors should NOT be honed with tape. If you don't know, don't use it. If the bevel is over 15deg, it is probably okay and can be honed without tape. Don't assume it is too acute. FIND OUT. KNOW it is, before just assuming.
Razors... are they tools, or jewelry? A work of art should probably not be honed at all. Build a nice case for it and put it on display if it is too pretty for the spine to touch a hone. Otherwise, it is a tool, and it is natural for tools to look as though they have been used. Don't fear the hone.
Okay so abusing the razor with taped honing will have small effect for the years you anticipate having and using it. What about the next 200 years of potential use? Learn to hone correctly, and teach your sons and grandsons to do it correctly, and pass those heirlooms on, because when you go to that great barbershop in the sky, they will indeed be heirlooms. Worthy of USE. If displayed proudly, they should look as though grampa just used them and has used them all his life. Just my dos centavos.
I’ll say this very slowly and not use big words. I use TAPE on full/true wedges.
Honing "Wedge"-style straight razors - home of the famous Belgian Coticule Whetstone
Honing "Wedge"-style straight razors - home of the famous Belgian Coticule Whetstone
Last edited:
Thanks for the thorough explanation of tape usage!
+1
I have a couple of near wedges, one where it's worn into the belly of the blade, that I just can't seem to get as good an edge as I would like.
This may well be the info I was needing to get them done - thanks!
- Thread starter
- #20
It would appear I have opened a huge can of worms and thank you everyone for their input.
My 2 favourite customs will probably have 1 layer but everything else nothing.
Just to add to the mix I have one more question re. taping.
I have a custom Damascus that looks very nice but was an average build. The maker used 4 layers to set the bevel???
When looking at the edge at x60 it seems very brittle, lots of micro nicks and unevenness. I think this may be usual for Damascus due to the layering of the steel.
So, my question is what is a good angle for Damascus blades to give a good shave but to hold a decent edge?
My 2 favourite customs will probably have 1 layer but everything else nothing.
Just to add to the mix I have one more question re. taping.
I have a custom Damascus that looks very nice but was an average build. The maker used 4 layers to set the bevel???
When looking at the edge at x60 it seems very brittle, lots of micro nicks and unevenness. I think this may be usual for Damascus due to the layering of the steel.
So, my question is what is a good angle for Damascus blades to give a good shave but to hold a decent edge?
