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Is it my Razor?

I feel I've hit a road block in my shaving routine.

After trying several blades in my EJ DE I just can not get a close shave unless I go ATG. The problem with that is that my skin is extremely sensitive and I cannot go ATG without the feeling of pulling and tugging due to the coarseness of my beard and I just end up cutting myself in the process.

I go from having no weepers to just butchering my chin and neck area. The biggest issue is that the hair is even more coarse in those areas. If I do not go ATG on my neck, it still has a 5 o'clock shadow. So this leaves me at an impasse with my current routine.

Either I can just shave WTG and XTG and have no issues but not a close shave, or I can go ATG but it will have to be the night before because of the amounts weepers and such that occur.

Ive tried several different blades with mixed results but nothing near being considered a smooth shave without going ATG. They all just feel like they're pulling the hair because the previous passes didnt cut it enough.

It also doesnt help that I have a weak chin but it also has a decent cleft in it so trying to go ATG there is almost dang near impossible without cutting myself.

Is the EJ DE I got just too mild for my needs? I am thinking something along the lines of a Merkur 37 C Slant might be what I need to cut the hairs better before attempting ATG.
 
What blade are you using?


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I’ve used Feathers, Persona Blue, Astra, and 2 different brands I got at the local supermarket that were terrible.

The Feathers do ok but not ATG for me. The Astra is the smoothest out of all those but doesn’t cut the hair close without several passes.
 
Personally, YMMV, I would get a Merkur Futur, since I’m biased towards it, and slap a Feather or Kai in it. I’m real good at a setting of 3, but you can dial up all the way to 6.

Most say a setting of 3 is about all they can take. So you’ll have flexibility. The Merkur 39C slant is nice too.


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What prep are you doing?

You might try pre-shave oil just prior to lathering for the ATG pass.

I used pre shave oil when I started it out but they either gunk up the blade or just feel like they aren’t doing anything beyond what my lather is already doing. Also clogged my pores up which is why I don’t use balm anymore either. A good aftershave splash now is where it’s at for me.

I just think my razor isn’t cutting the hairs good enough because ATG is a tug of war on the more coarse regions of my face.
 
Apologies for the long post in advance but here's my mini journey down a similar path. I started DE shaving a couple months ago and have samplers of blades and soaps. I started out with a Derby since it was supposed to be the smoothest and this was my first time using a DE razor. I have to tell you, I got an amazing shave with the Derby Extras. I did 3 passes with a touch up pass. Since then I've been slowing trying to ramp up the sharpness as I'd like to get down to a 1 or 2 pass shave with a touchup. What I'm finding is increased irritation and the shaves are not as good. I should note I'm using a Merkur 34C, similar in aggressiveness to the DE89 from what I've researched.

The increased irritation and lack of close shaves made me wonder if my beard mapping was off. Sure enough, I used a cotton ball and found that the grain on my neck was not down but across. So I've been shaving XTG, WTG or ATG (depending on what side I start from), and then XTG.

I say all this to emphasize the point that with the Derby Extras, despite "doing it all wrong", I still got the best shaves with virtually no irritation. I know people are hit and miss on Derby but I love them. I'll keep trying blades to try and see if I can get to the closeness with less passes with this razor but I have a pretty good baseline with Derby. Obviously, YMMV but maybe try going on the other end of the spectrum of sharpness/smoothness since it seems you've been trying the sharper side. I think when all that fails maybe a new razor? The other thing I've seen is that some folks do 2 XTG passes vs. ATG particularly in the neck area. That may be worth a shot as well. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Shaving ATG can be quite tricky, at least in my experience, because even the smallest amount of pressure can result in nicks and cuts; you think you're not pressing down with the razor, but you are. I'm not convinced trying different blades or razors will help, but paying real attention to letting the blade just to say contact your face might.
 
another thought... keep an eye on the angle of your blade as well. if your angle is off, maybe you're scraping instead of cutting. I have similar issues on the right side of my neck and when my angle is off, even just a little, i get horrible irritation.
 
So sorry to hear about the trouble you are having. I am not the most experienced shaver but here are my thoughts.

To me the closeness of the shave and irritation/cuts are all about what is going on at the blade to skin interface. What impacts that can be (in my opinion):
- Preparation of the face pre shave
- Pressure of razor to the face
- Angle of the blade to the face
- Soap/cream being used
- The lather used

The EJ DE is a well respected razor, and I get very nice shaves from Astras

Can you tell us what your prep is, and what soap/brush you use plus your lathering technique?

I would think about the fixed 4, use the same razor/blade/soap/brush for a month. Really understanding how your beard grows, mapping is a good idea. This allows you to really learn the technique, pressure/angle, for that combination. If you can only do WTG/XTG for that time, no problem. I don't think shaving should be a zealous quest for a BBS, we should enjoy the shaves and take what the razor gives us.

You get tugging and pulling when going ATG, that speaks to me of: pressure/angle and the slickness of the lather at the interface.

I hope that helps
 
Shaving ATG can be quite tricky, at least in my experience, because even the smallest amount of pressure can result in nicks and cuts; you think you're not pressing down with the razor, but you are. I'm not convinced trying different blades or razors will help, but paying real attention to letting the blade just to say contact your face might.

+1! The ATG pass is definitely the most challenging from a technical perspective. So the first thing may be to revisit your technique.

If that does not work then you might try an adjustable, my preference would be a Slim.
 
Back to the basics.

Good beard prep is #1. Shaving is much more enjoyable with a hydrated and prepared beard. Shave right after showering or wash twice with a glycerin based soap before you shave. Even leave the second wash soap on your face and apply your lather to it.

Finding and understanding which way your beard grows (called "beard mapping"). Yes it grows in a number of different directions, not just straight out. This will help you determine the different directions of shaving and how it relates to your personal "face map".

After that it is simply following the growth pattern for each pass (each lathering). Personally I always do a 4 pass shave with a 5th "clean-up" of any missed areas.

You may find it useful to use your "off hand" (the one not holding your razor) to slightly stretch your skin in front of where you are shaving. This will help you from "bunching up" in front of the blade. You will find that you get a much closer more comfortable shave.

Follow these basics and you should be able to shave with any razor/blade/brush/soap/cream combination.

You might want to go through the shave wiki for more helpful advice.
 
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So sorry to hear about the trouble you are having. I am not the most experienced shaver but here are my thoughts.

To me the closeness of the shave and irritation/cuts are all about what is going on at the blade to skin interface. What impacts that can be (in my opinion):
- Preparation of the face pre shave
- Pressure of razor to the face
- Angle of the blade to the face
- Soap/cream being used
- The lather used

The EJ DE is a well respected razor, and I get very nice shaves from Astras

Can you tell us what your prep is, and what soap/brush you use plus your lathering technique?

I would think about the fixed 4, use the same razor/blade/soap/brush for a month. Really understanding how your beard grows, mapping is a good idea. This allows you to really learn the technique, pressure/angle, for that combination. If you can only do WTG/XTG for that time, no problem. I don't think shaving should be a zealous quest for a BBS, we should enjoy the shaves and take what the razor gives us.

You get tugging and pulling when going ATG, that speaks to me of: pressure/angle and the slickness of the lather at the interface.

I hope that helps

First I wet a rag with warm water and pat my face all around. Next - I’ll splash my face with the warm water and rub it around to make sure the skin is nice and moist.

I did use oil after this but found they just clogged my blade up so I no longer use oil.

I then apply my shave soap and start WTG.

No pressure, just let the blade glide over. Learned this the hard way when I first started out because I got razor burn from pressing like I use to with a cartridge.

Only one pass over the skin - I don’t go over the same area if it doesn’t have soap on it.

After I make my initial pass WTG - I’ll rinse my face then reapply my lather and then go XTG.

I find the XTG helps on my jawline but doesn’t really accomplish much more on my neck. I also have a protruding Adams Apple so I stop going XTG there and keep it WTG as to avoid cuts and such.

After that I will wash then reapply the soap and clean up any areas that still feel scratchy.

After this is when I will go ATG.

ATG on my sideburns and cheeks is no issue because my beard hair there isn’t as coarse. The blade just glides without issue.

The middle of my neck and the chin area has the thickest hair and even after all the mentioned steps before going ATG, there is still significant pulling.

I also experience this when doing the jawline ATG in this area as well so it’s hard for the blade to make the turn over the jawline because it just starts skipping and/or pulling the hair.

I’m not forcing the blade as I know pressure is a detriment - so I use as little pressure as possible but still get cut up in this area of my face.

After I finish I’ll use a nice aftershave splash - or if my face is dry I’ll use a balm or moisturizer.

I just can’t get a close shave in that area though without going ATG because my neck will still have that stubble shadow after WTG and XTG.
 
Ive tried several different blades with mixed results but nothing near being considered a smooth shave without going ATG. They all just feel like they're pulling the hair because the previous passes didnt cut it enough.

So you do a WTG pass and a XTG grain pass and the razor isn't cutting enough?

How about a third pass...either WTG or XTG, then blade buffing over the areas that still need touch up?

A razor with more blade gap and/or blade exposure will cut closer, but it will be much less forgiving of poor technique.
 
So you do a WTG pass and a XTG grain pass and the razor isn't cutting enough?

How about a third pass...either WTG or XTG, then blade buffing over the areas that still need touch up?

A razor with more blade gap and/or blade exposure will cut closer, but it will be much less forgiving of poor technique.

My WTG and XTG technique, I feel, are pretty good. No irritation and no cuts etc. Just doesn’t produce a smooth shave. Still has that sandpaper feel to it.

I do usually go back over problem areas but that’s why I ordered a slant because I’ve heard from several sources that those are more efficient and provide a close shave at the expense of dulling the blade faster.

I will probably look into other means of going ATG on these spots. Again, my chin is difficult because of the amount of skin tissue there. No amount of pulling will stretch it out enough to minimize grabbing. So that area might just be a no go.

My neck though shouldn’t be that hard it just seems to hair isn’t getting cut enough to reduce the amount of drag.
 
This really sounds to me like your angle needs a little refining.

Both WTG and XTG you can shave pretty nicely with cap slightly riding - angle very close to right, but not quite there. However, try cap riding ATG and the likelihood is you will get the blade lifted ever so slightly off the skin. This causes you to compensate with pressure, thus cutting yourself. This ALSO causes pulling (which causes irritation) at the same time. Result - terrible shave.

Both WTG and XTG you can shave pretty nicely with guard slightly riding - angle not quite right, but close. However, try guard riding ATG and you will get dry, scraping shave, with the corners catching, hair pulling, razor burn and weepers. Result - terrible shave.

There really is a magical place right between those two where the blade just cuts the hair with little to no fuss. It's a hard place to find, and even having found it from time to time, I can't reliably reproduce it. I've gotten there just enough to realize that with practice, someday I absolutely will develop sufficient skill. Unfortunately, since I started with straights, my poor DE89 is sitting neglected in its stand.
 
Just wanted to give an update.

As ridiculous as this sounds I think I found my issue.

Even after the amount of time I spent lurking and reading on here, and the videos I’ve watched - I think my blade angle and pressure was off when doing ATG.

Today I did like I saw in a video. I placed the guard against my face and then turned it until the blade started cutting.

But the biggest change was when I attempted another ATG pass.

I made sure to take my time on the proper angle and just let the razor glide.

It was to the point that I wasn’t sure I was even cutting any hair, but surprise - it worked much better.

I only managed to cut myself in 2 places and had fewer weepers, but no razor burn and a much much better shave.

I still need to work on figuring out the transition from going ATG on my neck and making the turn past my jawline. I still had some grabbing there and that’s also the only place I cut myself this go round - but not NEARLY as bad as before.
 
I favour riding the cap more, especially with a new blade.
Treat the blade like a shovel, not a bulldozer.
First I wet a rag with warm water and pat my face all around. Next - I’ll splash my face with the warm water and rub it around to make sure the skin is nice and moist.
How about a nice long hot shower, with your choice of bar soap and a scrubby cotton face cloth?
These days I prefer Caprina Fresh Goat's Milk bar soap in the shower. (In a pinch I could even use it to make lather.)
After that I will wash then reapply the soap and clean up any areas that still feel scratchy.
If you're going by what you feel with your fingertips, beware of what I call "ghost stubble".
That's where it feels like stubble when you rub ATG, so you keep doing multiple passes, blade buffing, etc. and it still feels a bit rough ATG. This would give me significant razor burn, as indicated by the alum and AS splash. One time I just stopped after two and a half passes (WTG, ATG, ATG touch-ups) and the "stubble" disappeared by about 20 minutes after I rinsed, applied alum, rinsed again, towel dried, and applied aftershave. That formerly rough area under my chin was BBS. The stubble was never actually there.

I see no need to rinse off the remaining lather between passes. I just apply more.
During the touch-ups I may just redistribute some leftover lather with my fingers, from my mustache or elsewhere.
 
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