My Grande Journey

[Esox]

I’ve owned German Shepherds for much of my life. I’d just like to stake a claim for the ATT SE2 as the German Shepherd of razors.

My last dog was a 4 y/o Kuvasz rescue.

There was no room left in the back seat of my Grand Prix lol. 34"s at the shoulders and 115lbs. They're bred to be faster and more agile than wolves. He literally ran circles around a friends Border Collie.

He had issues with men from his previous home and we didnt see eye to eye lol. We even had a fight over that once, so I had to take him back. He's in a good home now so all's well, fang marks aside haha. I'm just glad it was a winter walk or he would have torn me up really bad. He did almost rip the sleeve off my North Face coat though.

Very interesting breed. They're one of the 3 oldest breeds. At the end of WW2 there were only 13 left. Because they're such fierce protectors, the Russians and Germans both shot them on sight.

They're bred under such controlled circumstances that his bloodline goes all the way back to King Matthias Corvinus of Hungary in the 15th century. After seeing them in action first hand and watching them work, I wonder if the werewolf myth originated from that breed.

There are some really good and very funny stories written by an off the grid working farmer in Kentucky. He has a very strong innate understanding of animals and his stories had me in tears they're so funny. They also give a very good insight into what that breed is for and does, purely on its own instinct.

Tales of The Daemon Sisters and other LGD happenings by Robert Denlinger.

The Fatip of dogs. Or maybe the R41 will be more apt...

 

[Cal]

Between the DE's I have, and the soon to attack my face R41 I think I'll have the DE world covered.

Methinks you've only just crossed the Rabbit Hole threshold Mike.

 

[Esox]

Methinks you've only just crossed the Rabbit Hole threshold Mike.

I see no iKon Tech in my crystal ball lol.

I'm treading very lightly around the SE hole though.

 

[rabidus]

I'm treading very lightly around the SE hole though.

 

[Esox]

 

[Esox]

Muhle R41 first shave.



I've already made a post about this razor head @Raven Koenes was kind enough to send me so I wont go back over what I've covered below.

I've just had a good look at the R41 head that came in the mail today. I had hoped to use my Fat Tech handle, but the threads dont match for some reason. It starts to bind at that point below.

A NEW Common Bar handle on the other hand, fits fine.

It also balances about the same as my NEW SC, and the weight is similar.

By comparison, Fatips are a work of art and are a finely machined, solid Brass piece. Muhle on the other hand....

The very first thing I noticed when I loaded a blade was, one blade tab is covered, the other isnt. The other thing I didnt notice until I took this picture.

Notice the corners of the base plate and cap. I can push the blade edge down to the teeth on each of all four corners. The blade is only clamped against the teeth at the center 4 teeth. The rest of the blade is floppy.

My 1917 Gillette Single Ring had the same problem, but it was from a bent base plate that I was able to easily fix. I dont think theres any fixing this Muhle base plate. Maybe @rudyt will have some advice there.

I put the cap on my straight edge, its flat on both sides. The base plate is flat across the bottom. The straight edge rocks against the outside of the comb and across the top of the base plate. Both sides are the same. Both ends of the base plate are also slightly concave against my straight edge.

The base plate is not bent. I believe this is a casting issue.

Blade exposure, angle and guard span comparison.

I've read so often about Fatips lack of quality control. If that lack is in the barely noticeable machining marks left in the brass that the plating doesnt hide, I'll concede that point. But if being straight and square means anything, Fatip easily wins.

The plating is of the same quality on both my R41 and my Fatip Grande. The plating on Fatips is thinner because Brass doesnt need the added protection of thick plating Zamac does.

I'm honestly not sure what to think of this R41 head. The floppy blade corners may be an issue, but it didnt bother me that much with my Single Ring so it may not be.

It has a fresh Derby Extra in it so I'll be finding out tonight.

R41, Common Bar handle - Derby Extra.

Stirling Island Man.

Maggard synthetic.

49 hours since last shave.

Starting with the typical 3 pass shave, first pass N-S WTG/XTG. Second pass S-N XTG/ATG. Third pass and all cleanups done directly ATG.

Like I said in my first shave with my Grande and a Derby Extra, as soon as the razor moved I knew.

I started right side mid ear at the base of my side burn and as soon as the razor moved, I knew. That single stroke went right to the bottom of my neck as did all other strokes as I worked my way across my face.

Effortless full length strokes.

It tugged, considerably. No effortless full length strokes on this first pass. Two strokes over my cheek to my jawline and 4 strokes from my jawline to the base of my neck. Interestingly, as soon as the blade encountered my swirls, it skipped right over them, even leaving lather in the stubble. An adjustment in technique solved that however. I went a little shallower and increased the pressure considerably. That ended the skipping and minimized the tugging.

Rigidity doesnt make a shave more effective? I very much disagree.

Second pass S-N and still some very light tugging but not an issue and honestly, smooth sailing. Comfortable and easy. I buffed around my chin the same as always, a little over my swirls and even changed direction, painting lather with the comb and shaved over both swirls the opposite direction keeping to a shallow angle. No issues.

Third pass directly ATG, angle leaning more to neutral and steep than shallow now. Again no issues, nice smooth easy shave, very light buffing over my jawline both sides and my swirls again.

Wipe and check and not quite there yet, so I did one more clean up pass and finished with a very nice and comfortable BBS shave. No irritation or redness at all and my skin is cool and comfortable.

Now I'll say, Derby Extra is not a good match in this razor and using it has cemented what I've said numerous times about the many people that have tried them and dislike them. Use them in a rigid design! It makes a difference.

Using the same blade in my Grande its a 2 1/2 pass BBS. No tugging, no skipping. The difference in blade exposure between the two is minimal.

Not only does it make a difference with Derby Extra, but it does every other blade I've tried as well.

Rigidity. Makes. A. Difference.

Now I will also say, a sharper blade may very well eliminate the tugging and skipping I experienced, but at the same time, wouldnt a more rigid design also elevate that blade too? Yep, it would.

The razor in general is quite nice, despite its lack of rigidity. It does have a lot of blade feel, but going by what I've read about it for the year or so I've been a member here, its not nearly as 'aggressive' as is commonly said about it. If one was to call the R41 and the Fatip OC heads aggressive, I believe that incorrect. Efficient, yes. Unforgiving of weak technique, yes. Is either prone to biting erratically? Thats a different question. The Fatip is much smoother and more predictable but thats because its a more rigid design, and, the blade has more curve to it.

If you can use a Fatip and get a good shave, you should be able to with the R41 as well. They arent that different, but because the R41 is a less rigid design, it feels like its more prone to biting. At a neutral angle it might even feel dangerous if you're not use to using razors with a lot of blade exposure, but the same as any DE, the shave is only as good as the hand holding it. If you have poor technique, the same as my Grande, you'll pay in blood until you learn good technique. If you have a good technique, you'll have a good shave.

It is efficient, but its no more efficient first pass than my Grande, NEW SC, Single Ring or my Regent, and none of them tug with the same blade in it. Its just as easy to use too and honestly my Regent demands higher respect than this R41 does.

I'll keep using it as it is for the time being. I get along with the Common Bar handle just fine and I'll need to try a few blades in it to see what it likes. Polsilver is up next.

 

[Highspeedlane]

Awesome review Mike

The R41 is way more efficient than I typically need, but it's a fun razor to add into the rotation.

 

[Esox]

Awesome review Mike

The R41 is way more efficient than I typically need, but it's a fun razor to add into the rotation.

Thanks Lane!

I dont mind using it and it can only improve. It will take me a few shaves to get it dialed in, but it does have potential.

 

[Tokyospike]

Rigidity. Makes. A. Difference.

Preaching to the converted in my case. This ‘varying blade gap’ razor shall not approach my skin. But I’m glad you got away with a fine shave.

 

[jmudrick]

Nice review. Though I favor the BIC I find the R41 a bit tuggy with every blade I use and simply don't enjoy much whatever it is the R41 brings to the table.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Nice review, Mike. Wrong blade!

I've used my R41 only with the Polsilver and Blue Diamond blades. I especially like the Polsilver. I'd suggest on your next R41 shave using only a very steep angle. Maybe steeper than the picture.

I will maybe down the road try the various Fatip razors again - the Gentile, the Schöne, the Plisson 9 tooth, the Piccolo Mk2 with a Grande handle, and the Grande Mk1 - to see how I think they now compare to the R41. I've not used the Mk1 yet, but, going my memory, none of my Fatip razors shave me nearly as well as the R41. None are as efficient (judging by the shave results). The Gentile is smoother, but its shaves leave me with neck irritation (I think).

It's not that I dislike the Fatip razors. I've used them a good bit as a group, but not as much as you or many other gentlemen. I like them pretty well. Well, actually, I don't much like the Joris, and I do not like the handle of the Piccolo, but the others I like. I like the R4 better only because the R41 shave is so much closer, smoother, and less bothersome.

The Gentile is certainly easier to shave with than the R41 and is probably my favorite of the Fatip razors.

It could also be that I will find the Fatip razors better now, having using the R41 for a while. Maybe my technique has improved. However, my current point of view is I like four DE razors a good bit more than any of my Fatip razors.

1. The Gillette Old Type on a donor handle from a Fat Handled Tech.
2. The Schaeffer.
3. The RR SLOC.
4. The R41.

I think my R41 is somehow much more rigid than yours, Mike, but I'm not sure yet.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Raven Koenes]

Nice review, Mike. Wrong blade!

View attachment 895583

I've used my R41 only with the Polsilver and Blue Diamond blades. I especially like the Polsilver. I'd suggest on your next R41 shave using only a very steep angle. Maybe steeper than the picture.

I will maybe down the road try the various Fatip razors again - the Gentile, the Schöne, the Plisson 9 tooth, the Piccolo Mk2 with a Grande handle, and the Grande Mk1 - to see how I think they now compare to the R41. I've not used the Mk1 yet, but, going my memory, none of my Fatip razors shave me nearly as well as the R41. None are as efficient (judging by the shave results). The Gentile is smoother, but its shaves leave me with neck irritation (I think).

It's not that I dislike the Fatip razors. I've used them a good bit as a group, but not as much as you or many other gentlemen. I like them pretty well. Well, actually, I don't much like the Joris, and I do not like the handle of the Piccolo, but the others I like. I like the R4 better only because the R41 shave is so much closer, smoother, and less bothersome.

The Gentile is certainly easier to shave with than the R41 and is probably my favorite of the Fatip razors.

It could also be that I will find the Fatip razors better now, having using the R41 for a while. Maybe my technique has improved. However, my current point of view is I like four DE razors a good bit more than any of my Fatip razors.

1. The Gillette Old Type on a donor handle from a Fat Handled Tech.
2. The Schaeffer.
3. The RR SLOC.
4. The R41.

I think my R41 is somehow much more rigid than yours, Mike, but I'm not sure yet.

Happy shaves,

Jim

I think Mike's r41 head is just fine having owned it and having examined all of the heads. There is no real difference with it and my other two. I'd chalk it up to blade choice. I've used Astra SP, Polsilver, and Personna Labs in my r41. The Astra and Polsilver were great. The Personna not so much. It was such that I haven't used them sense. I used to think my r41 was way more efficient than my Fatip Mk2's. That perception has narrowed over time. At some point I should do a comparison between my r41 and my Fatip Mk1. On a side note, I would send you, Mike, the other spare r41 head if you do think it's off. Then you could send the one you don't choose back.

 

[Raven Koenes]

Preaching to the converted in my case. This ‘varying blade gap’ razor shall not approach my skin. But I’m glad you got away with a fine shave.

Come on Spike get in the know. Variable blade gap is all the current rage.

 

[Tokyospike]

Variable blade gap is all the current rage.

Dag nab it! You whippersnappers should stick to the tried and true!

 

[Esox]

Nice review. Though I favor the BIC I find the R41 a bit tuggy with every blade I use and simply don't enjoy much whatever it is the R41 brings to the table.

Thanks.

I still have a few BIC blades I think, along with many other types, but I generally stick to my standbys, but I'm out of Gillette Yellows lol.

 

[Esox]

Nice review, Mike. Wrong blade!

View attachment 895583

I've used my R41 only with the Polsilver and Blue Diamond blades. I especially like the Polsilver. I'd suggest on your next R41 shave using only a very steep angle. Maybe steeper than the picture.

I will maybe down the road try the various Fatip razors again - the Gentile, the Schöne, the Plisson 9 tooth, the Piccolo Mk2 with a Grande handle, and the Grande Mk1 - to see how I think they now compare to the R41. I've not used the Mk1 yet, but, going my memory, none of my Fatip razors shave me nearly as well as the R41. None are as efficient (judging by the shave results). The Gentile is smoother, but its shaves leave me with neck irritation (I think).

It's not that I dislike the Fatip razors. I've used them a good bit as a group, but not as much as you or many other gentlemen. I like them pretty well. Well, actually, I don't much like the Joris, and I do not like the handle of the Piccolo, but the others I like. I like the R4 better only because the R41 shave is so much closer, smoother, and less bothersome.

The Gentile is certainly easier to shave with than the R41 and is probably my favorite of the Fatip razors.

It could also be that I will find the Fatip razors better now, having using the R41 for a while. Maybe my technique has improved. However, my current point of view is I like four DE razors a good bit more than any of my Fatip razors.

1. The Gillette Old Type on a donor handle from a Fat Handled Tech.
2. The Schaeffer.
3. The RR SLOC.
4. The R41.

I think my R41 is somehow much more rigid than yours, Mike, but I'm not sure yet.

Happy shaves,

Jim

I agree I need to step up my blade choice Jim, but the simple fact remains that my Grande and the same blade gives me an easy, quick and comfortable shave. If the R41 wasnt floppy, it would too. That blade choice highlighted the lack of rigidity. A sharper blade might mask that failing.

As far as angle goes, if I feel tugging its too steep. That also carries over to my Grande. My swirls are anything but easy to shave and even my Grande tugs a lot over them steep, but it has never skipped right over them. Blade choice aside, given the same blade in both the R41 and my Grande, the blade will work better in the Grande simply because its more rigid.

It could be Jim that my theory on blade flex is accurate. Maybe, the R41 has just the right amount of rigidity you need so that your whiskers can be cut comfortably. I dont know, I'm not shaving your face so I cant say for sure, but it fits.

I still have some Blue Diamonds and I will try one, but I'll go with the tried and true Polsilver and see what I think.

With any mass produced cast item, the molds are going to wear as they get used. Depending on their own in house spec tolerance levels, who knows what makes the cut and what doesnt. My head may be typical or it may be the beginning or end of a run on a mold set and yours is from the middle of the run when the molds have just set in nicely. Who knows.

 

[Esox]

I think Mike's r41 head is just fine having owned it and having examined all of the heads. There is no real difference with it and my other two. I'd chalk it up to blade choice. I've used Astra SP, Polsilver, and Personna Labs in my r41. The Astra and Polsilver were great. The Personna not so much. It was such that I haven't used them sense. I used to think my r41 was way more efficient than my Fatip Mk2's. That perception has narrowed over time. At some point I should do a comparison between my r41 and my Fatip Mk1. On a side note, I would send you, Mike, the other spare r41 head if you do think it's off. Then you could send the one you don't choose back.

Yet another generous offer Rave, but I'm with you. I think its typical of the head. If you get a good one you're ahead of the game. If you get an average one, well, you're still in the game and maybe it just might take a little more effort to dial it in.

I'm willing to bet that if someone critically scrutinized 10 different R41 heads, differences would be found. The same as blade gaps across the Gillettte NEW LC varied by .017" or more. I also believe that razor to be cast. The NEW SC on the other hand I believe was machined, like the Fatip, and the gaps across the samples were all .023".

Zee Blade! Zee Blade! lol

The simple fact remains that the same blade in my Grande, NEW SC, Regent etc performs great. It doesnt in the R41. Why not?

In the same vein a Polsilver may perform very well, but the simple fact is, if it performs well in the R41, it will perform better in the Grande. It has too, its physics, @rabidus said so, sort of! lol

_____

On a side note I did have a 12 hour BBS which is a record for the Derby Extra besting the 10 hour BBS from my NEW SC.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Try the Polsilver shaving steep.

 

[Esox]

Try the Polsilver shaving steep.

Yessir! lol

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Steep and very light, Mike.

I have no trouble shallow cap riding on my cheeks though.