Hang or Stand — AN EXPERIMENT

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Really, unless you know the bristles on any two brushes come from the same animal and were processed identically, you're starting off handicapped. To compound that, I'd assume anybody doing this "for fun" is going to use old brushes, and not buy new ones just for this. As such, the history of the brush would impact the bristles' ability to absorb/dry from one brush to the next. At a really drilled-down level of detail, you can't get exactly duplicated test beds.

The only way to do this right is going to start with somebody going out and shavin' their own hog.

I would only use different brushes for comparing natural hair (boar) to synthetic hair. I should have made that clear. I wouldn't use two brushes of the same model. Also, I should have mentioned that I have a humidity and temperature monitor, so I'd put that nearby the brush and record the readings when I'd make the mass measurements. You might have a point about new versus old brushes. My synthetic brush is new, hardly used, and my boar brush is old, having been used for over ten months of nearly daily use, so it has a lot of bent and broken hairs. These are two very different setups. When coupled with "maximally wet" and "minimally wet" and hanging vs. standing at the start of drying, that would be a good test matrix of 2 * 2 * 2 = 8 combinations, I think. I'm not promising that I'll do these experiments, but I'm saying that I might do it, and if I do, this is how I'd do it.

 

[JohnG10]

I tried hanging vs standing my Semogue 1305 to dry in the past. It happened to be in the summer and coincide with a week the air conditioner went out, so the air was hot and humid (80% ish). I found the hanging brush was a little dryer the next day - but that both were still damp.

But when I tried the experiment in the dry winter air with my new badger brush, I found that I could easily tell a difference at 1 hour and some difference at 2 hours, but by 4 hours both were dry to the touch.

When I tried the experiment again in the summer - but with a functioning air conditioner (which reduces the humidity to 50% ish) I got results similar to the winter test, but had to wait 2 extra hours to get the same level of dryness.

I decided the difference was enough to matter --- and that any damage from extra moisture-time was waaaay less than the damage to the bristles from inserting the bristles into the brush holder (which was tight, and speared the bristles if I didn't line it up just right).

So I've been standing my brushes to dry for about 2 years. So far there has been no damage I can see

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

@JohnG10: Thanks for sharing your findings and what you've been doing. Did it seem to you that hanging worked faster, but you got tired of using your brush holder, which was tight?

 

[JohnG10]

My brush holder was a fancy chrome wire contraption whose top was a ring with a notch cut out of it. The ring was a good size for the base of the knot - but not big enough for the handle. So when I inserted the brush, the edge of the ring would sometimes spear the edge of the knot, causing some bent bristles.

The brush did dry a bit faster - but I'm not sure drying in 3 hours versus 4 makes any difference. I WAS sure that spearing the edge of the knot was causing occaisional minor damage.

My synthetic brush came with a cheap plastic stand. It doesn't spear the knot . But the slot / hole is way too narrow for my larger brushes (24mm 2 band WD badger, 1305 Semogue).

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

My brush holder was a fancy chrome wire contraption whose top was a ring with a notch cut out of it. The ring was a good size for the base of the knot - but not big enough for the handle. So when I inserted the brush, the edge of the ring would sometimes spear the edge of the knot, causing some bent bristles.

The brush did dry a bit faster - but I'm not sure drying in 3 hours versus 4 makes any difference. I WAS sure that spearing the edge of the knot was causing occaisional minor damage.

My synthetic brush came with a cheap plastic stand. It doesn't spear the knot . But the slot / hole is way too narrow for my larger brushes (24mm 2 band WD badger, 1305 Semogue).

Thanks for the clarification. Thankfully, my brush-and-razor stand barely accommodates my new 24 mm synthetic. You are right to avoid that brush stand that damages hairs in exchange for a little slower drying.

 

[Cal]

EXPERIMENT Number 2 — Semogue 1470

THE RESULT:

BRUSH HANGING average of 7 days’ weights:
41.6g ±0.2g pre-shave
45.5g ±0.3g post-shave

BRUSH STANDING average of 7days’ weights:
41.9g ±0.2g pre-shave
46.0g ±0.3g post-shave

OUTCOME:
A tiny bit wetter standing.


FOOTNOTES:
The brush weight, bone dry, prior to use was 40.7g.
Bear in mind that 0.1g = 2 drops of water.

40.7g = bone dry*
41.6g = daily use hanging dry (* +18 drops of water)
41.9g = daily use standing dry (* +24 drops of water)

---

Omega 10086 Bigger Bambino:

20.3g = bone dry*
20.6g = daily use hanging dry (* +6 drops of water)
20.6g = daily use standing dry (* +6 drops of water)

---

Best to Hang or Stand CONCLUSION:
Every brush is different... therefore, it depends.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Great job, Cal. Based on your results, it looks like hanging works a little better or the same as standing to dry a brush. It will be a while before I have my experimental results.

 

[ouch]

I agree that hanging is the superior method. For a limited time, Ouch International is offering a special deal on our proprietary deluxe model of brush dryers- buy one, get one free. Only $19.95 plus $7.95 S&H, while supplies last.

 

[tehnothing]

There is decidedly to much science in this thread. I will continue using stands because I have pretty ones. If I get a brush that doesn't fit I reserve the right to reverse that decision. No science needed.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[Komboloi]

Here is an excerpt from the Shavemac website on brush care:
"Use a shaving brush stand, where the brush hangs upside down and the remaining water can drain freely."

This doesn't make sense to me. My brush doesn't "drain" while it's hanging upside down; it just dries. Just like it does when I put it on its base.

When it's upside down, the water can migrate through gravity toward the tips, whence it evaporates. But it has to evaporate up into the brush.

When it's on it's base, the water can migrate through gravity toward the base, whence it evaporates. But it has to evaporate from a smaller denser cluster of hair.

So each would seem to have an advantage and disadvantage in evaporating moisture. Which is probably why it seems to make no difference.

I used to hang my brush, but I got rid of the stand and just stand it on its base now. 12 hours later, it's completely dry no matter which method I use.

But then, I live in Las Vegas, where I can't even take a bath because the water is gone by the time I climb in the tub.

 

[Hoka Hey]

This doesn't make sense to me. My brush doesn't "drain" while it's hanging upside down; it just dries. Just like it does when I put it on its base.

When it's upside down, the water can migrate through gravity toward the tips, whence it evaporates. But it has to evaporate up into the brush.

When it's on it's base, the water can migrate through gravity toward the base, whence it evaporates. But it has to evaporate from a smaller denser cluster of hair.

So each would seem to have an advantage and disadvantage in evaporating moisture. Which is probably why it seems to make no difference.

I used to hang my brush, but I got rid of the stand and just stand it on its base now. 12 hours later, it's completely dry no matter which method I use.

But then, I live in Las Vegas, where I can't even take a bath because the water is gone by the time I climb in the tub.

Here's one Shavemac has made for them. Sort of addresses your concerns.

 

[Komboloi]

I have no concerns. It seems to make no difference whether I hang my brushes upside down or set them on their base. They dry perfectly well either way. With that stand in the photo above, it seems to be an unnecessary space-waster

 

[Haiku]

This doesn't make sense to me. My brush doesn't "drain" while it's hanging upside down; it just dries. Just like it does when I put it on its base.

When it's upside down, the water can migrate through gravity toward the tips, whence it evaporates. But it has to evaporate up into the brush.

When it's on it's base, the water can migrate through gravity toward the base, whence it evaporates. But it has to evaporate from a smaller denser cluster of hair.

So each would seem to have an advantage and disadvantage in evaporating moisture. Which is probably why it seems to make no difference.

I used to hang my brush, but I got rid of the stand and just stand it on its base now. 12 hours later, it's completely dry no matter which method I use.

But then, I live in Las Vegas, where I can't even take a bath because the water is gone by the time I climb in the tub.

For what it's worth, I suspect that gravity is not as important as capillary action. That would be why standing the brush is as good or better than hanging it. Water evaporates from the thinnest part of the bristle first and that draws the water out of the thickest part of the bristle. Unless of course I'm wrong and it doesn't.

Capillary action - Wikipedia

How capillary action is affected by gravity:

What is capillary action and how is it affected by gravity? Ariel & Michal

 

[Steve_in_CT]

EXPERIMENT Number 2 — Semogue 1470

THE RESULT:
View attachment 788118

BRUSH HANGING average of 7 days’ weights:
41.6g ±0.2g pre-shave
45.5g ±0.3g post-shave

BRUSH STANDING average of 7days’ weights:
41.9g ±0.2g pre-shave
46.0g ±0.3g post-shave

OUTCOME:
A tiny bit wetter standing.


FOOTNOTES:
The brush weight, bone dry, prior to use was 40.7g.
Bear in mind that 0.1g = 2 drops of water.

40.7g = bone dry*
41.6g = daily use hanging dry (* +18 drops of water)
41.9g = daily use standing dry (* +24 drops of water)

---

Omega 10086 Bigger Bambino:

20.3g = bone dry*
20.6g = daily use hanging dry (* +6 drops of water)
20.6g = daily use standing dry (* +6 drops of water)

---

Best to Hang or Stand CONCLUSION:
Every brush is different... therefore, it depends.

I wonder if the difference with the Semogue 1470 is attributable to the wooden handle. Standing up, water will run into the handle from which it will take longer to evaporate. I don't expect that it will affect the bristles, nor would I expect that amount of water to damage the handle.

 

[daveinsweethome]

This doesn't make sense to me. My brush doesn't "drain" while it's hanging upside down; it just dries. Just like it does when I put it on its base.

When it's upside down, the water can migrate through gravity toward the tips, whence it evaporates. But it has to evaporate up into the brush.

When it's on it's base, the water can migrate through gravity toward the base, whence it evaporates. But it has to evaporate from a smaller denser cluster of hair.

So each would seem to have an advantage and disadvantage in evaporating moisture. Which is probably why it seems to make no difference.

I used to hang my brush, but I got rid of the stand and just stand it on its base now. 12 hours later, it's completely dry no matter which method I use.

But then, I live in Las Vegas, where I can't even take a bath because the water is gone by the time I climb in the tub.

loved the last line. loved the 109 plus degree vacation i took there with my wife.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

EXPERIMENT Number 2 — Semogue 1470

THE RESULT:
View attachment 788118

BRUSH HANGING average of 7 days’ weights:
41.6g ±0.2g pre-shave
45.5g ±0.3g post-shave

BRUSH STANDING average of 7days’ weights:
41.9g ±0.2g pre-shave
46.0g ±0.3g post-shave

OUTCOME:
A tiny bit wetter standing.


FOOTNOTES:
The brush weight, bone dry, prior to use was 40.7g.
Bear in mind that 0.1g = 2 drops of water.

40.7g = bone dry*
41.6g = daily use hanging dry (* +18 drops of water)
41.9g = daily use standing dry (* +24 drops of water)

---

Omega 10086 Bigger Bambino:

20.3g = bone dry*
20.6g = daily use hanging dry (* +6 drops of water)
20.6g = daily use standing dry (* +6 drops of water)

---

Best to Hang or Stand CONCLUSION:
Every brush is different... therefore, it depends.

Very interesting and helpful post and thread, Cal.

You've assembled enough information and done enough actual science to satisfy me and to keep me from having to break out my kitchen scales. Thanks for bringing this thread to my attention.

The main thing I get from reading this is it takes a long time (how long we don't know) for a brush to revert to or achieve a state of bone dryness.

I've read a lot about brush drying here and there and find no consensus and less science, but it makes sense to me that a brush should be dry "enough" before it is used again. Does that mean bone dry? That's where there is no science or consensus. So, I have no idea really, but we all know gentlemen of yore didn't have thirty or forty brushes in a rotation. Most of them probably didn't have badgers or boars with large knots either.

As my wife has mentioned to me on various occasions her grandfather had one and only one shaving brush during the decades they were both alive. Knowing him, he was given a brush, or swiped one, undoubtedly used, as a young teenager, and he kept and used that brush until he died as a very old man. Knowing him, if the brush still had twelve bristles and could be made to lather it was good enough. I have no idea how his one brush held up.

It is no secret that most of us are overtly members of the Brotherhood of Shaving Crazies, or might be if we weren't too contrarian or asocial or busy to take the test or join. BOSC, test, link. As such we may pay more attention to our brushes than necessary. Maybe some of us have a few more than we truly need. Perhaps we need to lay off the sauce.



I have plans to corner the market and stockpile the sauce and sell it on BST at a huge profit, but, don't worry, there's plenty in reserve for me and my friends.

Having put some money into some decent brushes and plenty of time and energy into their selection I'd like to be reasonably careful with them, and not have to replace them. I want them to last, but I don't want to have to do much to make that happen.

It seems prudent and sensible and easy enough to completely rinse a brush after each use, and to gently towel dry it, and to place it in a spot where it gets some air.

If I understand anything about this thread and the others I've read on B&B and the various articles and recommendations published by vendors and manufacturers and "experts" letting your brush dry for about 24 hours is about as good as is necessary, regardless of drying method, but not sufficient to achieve a bone dry brush.

In other words, my wife is right.

Please, do not ever mention to her that she's right. She's always right, but in this case I want her to be as unaware as possible of that fact. I'm not enamored of selling all but one of my pretty brushes on ebay.

With very fat knots, such as those of my 30 mm silvertip Maseto Shaving badgers, I might want to have more than one just so I can allow a somewhat longer drying time for the large and dense knot. I would assume your science supports that position, and I may find myself needing an official position paper from an expert in order to appease a certain lady, but at least I think I may know how to take care of my nice brushes.

Thank you.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[ouch]

I agree that hanging is the superior method. For a limited time, Ouch International is offering a special deal on our proprietary deluxe model of brush dryers- buy one, get one free. Only $19.95 plus $7.95 S&H, while supplies last.

View attachment 788140

Due to overwhelming response to this sale, I have decided to repeat my offer. To sweeten the pot, for a limited time I will throw in a bespoke, special edition razor stand at no extra charge.

 

[Esox]

View attachment 861203
Due to overwhelming response to this sale, I have decided to repeat my offer. To sweeten the pot, for a limited time I will throw in a bespoke, special edition razor stand at no extra charge.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

View attachment 861203
Due to overwhelming response to this sale, I have decided to repeat my offer. To sweeten the pot, for a limited time I will throw in a bespoke, special edition razor stand at no extra charge.

I have a special deal for you. I'm sure you are now or soon will be flooded by calls or orders. I happen to be a call center and drop shipping guru. For a very low, paid in advance price, we will handle all your shipping and orders. All you do is put us in touch with your manufacturing plant, and cash your checks. Word of mouth advertising will do the rest with products such as yours.

One year of service - 100% complete, no add ons, shipping, postage, packaging, calls, no extras if the volume exceeds our expectations which, for your products, is vast - only $10,000 prepaid. Cash or check. We expect to lose money on the deal, but you will, of course, sign a contract for the second year of our service at our usual, and competitive rates.

We are very impressed with your products, and your price structure.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[ouch]

I have a special deal for you. I'm sure you are now or soon will be flooded by calls or orders. I happen to be a call center and drop shipping guru. For a very low, paid in advance price, we will handle all your shipping and orders. All you do is put us in touch with your manufacturing plant, and cash your checks. Word of mouth advertising will do the rest with products such as yours.

One year of service - 100% complete, no add ons, shipping, postage, packaging, calls, no extras if the volume exceeds our expectations which, for your products, is vast - only $10,000 prepaid. Cash or check. We expect to lose money on the deal, but you will, of course, sign a contract for the second year of our service at our usual, and competitive rates.

We are very impressed with your products, and your price structure.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Thanks, Jim, but I think I can do better. You are obviously unfamiliar with the Ouch International business model, to wit:
We take the money and don't mail out squat.

If you feel you can improve on this battle proven plan, feel free to contact me.