The incredible new Timeless BRONZE DE

[member 119848]

It seems to me, from the coments, that this razor is deceptively agressive. At least not to be compared to the bronze SB in terms of agressiveness.
I do not own the bronze OC plate. But I do own the SS razor from Timeless. I have recently discovered the R41 and really like how it shaves. But I do not like zamak.
I guess the OC bronze plate would be a good choice for someone wanting a much more efficient plate than the .95, with some extra blade feel. All Timeless plates are interchangable, so there is no need to buy a whole new razor, just expand by buying a new plate instead of buying a new razor from another artisan. Makes sense?
I find this OC bronze plate interesting, it could be an alternative to buying a new charcoal goods level 3, perhaps.
I’m excited, I look forward to hearing more reviews from the blade junkies!

 

[Joncr]

It seems to me, from the coments, that this razor is deceptively agressive. At least not to be compared to the bronze SB in terms of agressiveness.
I do not own the bronze OC plate. But I do own the SS razor from Timeless. I have recently discovered the R41 and really like how it shaves. But I do not like zamak.
I guess the OC bronze plate would be a good choice for someone wanting a much more efficient plate than the .95, with some extra blade feel. All Timeless plates are interchangable, so there is no need to buy a whole new razor, just expand by buying a new plate instead of buying a new razor from another artisan. Makes sense?
I find this OC bronze plate interesting, it could be an alternative to buying a new charcoal goods level 3, perhaps.
I’m excited, I look forward to hearing more reviews from the blade junkies!

FWIW I have both the Charcoal Goods level 3 and the Timeless Bronze OC...The Timeless could be called deceptively aggressive as it is a bit rough, but seems quicker to nick than you might think from it's face feel. There is nothing deceptive about the Level 3, there is plenty of blade feel and you know immediately any pressure or lack of attention and there will be blood. Compensating for that the leve 3 will shave closer and give a longer lasting BBS than I have been able to get from the Timeless.

 

[TheKman]

.95 ss vs .78 bronze

There hasn't been an opportunity to get photos of the razors to analyse the angle properly, however I did make some measurements and observations:

1) The caps for the Bronze and SS models are in fact interchangeable.
2) The cap heights and widths of the two are identical to withing 0.3mm, or within machining limits.
3) Base plate angle measured at the clamp edge nearest the safety bar is identical to within 0.5 degrees.
4) When the caps are mated to the non-matching base plates all of the mating faces appear to meet exactly the same way. On the SS base plate there is a full width match across the entire mating face of the cap. On the Bronze base plate the match is only the final ~3mm regardless of which cap is used. I conclude from this that the caps are functionally identical for all intents and purposes.
5) The Bronze base plate appears to produce a smaller arc across the bulk of the blade even if the final few millimetres is clamped the same as the SS. I suspect the result of this will be slightly greater blade exposure, though with a completely difference safety bar/comb design this is almost irrelevant.

There is most definitely a difference between them with respect to the arc created in the blade and I suspect this is due to the heavier bulk of the Bronze cap which is thicker in the centre. Presumably the cap is thicker to account for lower tensile strength of the material, this in turn required that the base plate is a little lower so that it doesn't bind before the clamp surfaces have adequately clamped the blade. When placing the two base plates end-to-end and examining the difference in cross section the difference is obvious. What's less obvious is that the last few millimetres of the clamp area of the Bronze appears to have a slightly smaller radius than the rest. I could only see this by looking at the different reflections created on each plate with the SS having a fairly consistent reflection while the Bronze looks like it compresses the reflected image more at the edge than the bulk.

Hardly scientific, I know, but these observations only took 10 minutes. I still want to get photos so I can properly measure the angle but last time I took photos a whole afternoon evaporated. *shrugs*

 

[Rhody]

This is the bronze open comb? I can't tell from the photo .I can tell you the blade exposure comparing the 68 oc and the bronze oc is visible to the naked eye .

 

[Bbb34]

Hardly scientific, I know, but these observations only took 10 minutes.

Even from the photo above it seem very obvious that blade angle would not be quite identical and also bronze base plate seems slightly less wide. In addition there are square edges on the plate that's open comb, so it would only make sense that it offers less smooth shave. Few reviews so far seem to confirm that.

Good for Timeless for trying something different, good for all of us to have the choice, but their initial products set expectation really high, when it comes to both, efficiency and great, smooth face feel.

 

[Rhody]

Even from the photo above it seem very obvious that blade angle would not be quite identical and also bronze base plate seems slightly less wide. In addition there are square edges on the plate that's open comb, so it would only make sense that it offers less smooth shave. Few reviews so far seem to confirm that.

Good for Timeless for trying something different, good for all of us to have the choice, but their initial products set expectation really high, when it comes to both, efficiency and great, smooth face feel.

Just to clarify the teeth on the oc bronze are not square .the front of each one is rounded over. Its smooth just too aggressive for me .the blade exposure i feel is too unforgiving

 

[Bbb34]

Just to clarify the teeth on the oc bronze are not square .the front of each one is rounded over. Its smooth just too aggressive for me .the blade exposure i feel is too unforgiving

Thanks, yeah, I knew that.

I meant, the bottom of the plate being square just doesn't seem like it would glide across the face as smooth as SS and Titanium designs (or, say, Merkur Progress).

 

[Rhody]

Thanks, yeah, I knew that.

I meant, the bottom of the plate being square just doesn't seem like it would glide across the face as smooth as SS and Titanium designs (or, say, Merkur Progress).

ok
ya it glides on me but just bites. i fear my technique will never be good enough for this

 

[Bbb34]

ok
ya it glides on me but just bites. i fear my technique will never be good enough for this

Without derailing thread any further. I feel like this all "technique" thing is going to far when it comes to forums.

I mean, it's not exactly rockets science. We're all grown men capable of doing things and learning various tasks. We really shouldn't need any "special skills" to get comfortable shave. It's "dragging a razor across one's face at certain angle with measured/light pressure" and in well... "particular direction" - that simple. lol

So... what I'm trying to say, you're likely too hard on yourself, this just happens to be a razor that's not a good match for you. Shame though, but you know SS works perfectly for you, so not the end of the world.

 

[IMightBeWrong]

I find the Bronze OC very smooth and bites me less than the OC stainless that I returned. YMMV of course. Luckily Timeless has a great return policy.

 

[TheKman]

Even from the photo above it seem very obvious that blade angle would not be quite identical and also bronze base plate seems slightly less wide. In addition there are square edges on the plate that's open comb, so it would only make sense that it offers less smooth shave.

To be clear, the observations were intended only to illustrate that the blade angle relative to the base plate and cap appears to be identical. Overcoming the torque produced in a 0.1mm thick blade doesn't require a great deal of force and the last couple of millimetres of the base plate matched with a close fitting cap is more than enough to achieve that.

I agree that the very different base plate designs (long smooth OC versus short sharp OC) will have a far larger impact on performance. I expect that the very narrow (is shallow a better word?) comb is largely responsible for making the Bronze OC a more difficult beast to master. Which is funny when I consider this feature of the original Bronze is quite beneficial.

 

[Joncr]

FWIW, May have figured out how to make this razor work for me. So if this helps anyone else.......
The short version -
hold the handle almost vertical, which keeps the blade almost perpendicular to the face, no pressure, use a slick but minimally cushioned lather, use no pressure, use a Derby blade with 4 shaves already on it.

The long version -
Until today's shave have not had a lot of success with the Bronze OC.
My first attempts were based on what worked for me with an R41 - feather blade, MWF which gives me max cushioning, handle about 25 degress off vertical. With the Timeless Bronze OC that left a less than BBS with multiple weepers.
Next I tried TOBS Cedarwood, Astra SP, handle closer to horizontal (closer to riding the cap). Better, not satisfactory, somewhat less irritation, fewer weepers, not a BBS.
Took a close look at The Kman's post, above. Decided to try several different things to maximize blade feel. It worked, at least today. Used Kiss My Face, Aqua, which I find very slick with almost zero cushion. The Derby Blade is very smooth for me, tugs with all my other agressive razors ( R41, Level 3, Futur,etc), does not cut nearly as close as the Astra, or the Feather, but draws less blood and leaves less irritation.
Today's shave was the smoothest, closest, shave I have had with the Timeless Bronze OC. Minimal irritation, BBS all over, no weepers - no blood. The lack of cushion and consequent blade feel does let me know when my angle is shifting and digging the blade into my skin, easy to feel and correct, the Derby is smooth and more forgiving. It will be a while before these adjustments for the Timeless become automatic, but at least for one shave I did get a shave as close, irritation free, blood free, smooth as, I get with my R41.

 

[TheKman]

So, you've gone with the steepest angle possible... Guard rider style?

 

[Joncr]

So, you've gone with the steepest angle possible... Guard rider style?

exactly., I place the razor against my skin with the handle vertical, so I can only feel guard, than roll the handle away from my face until I begin to feel blade and stop. Than trying to hold that angle I start my shaving strokes. Each time I lifted the head off my skin I went thru the same process gain to find that angle. It worked.

 

[User 306]

Without derailing thread any further. I feel like this all "technique" thing is going to far when it comes to forums.

I mean, it's not exactly rockets science. We're all grown men capable of doing things and learning various tasks. We really shouldn't need any "special skills" to get comfortable shave. It's "dragging a razor across one's face at certain angle with measured/light pressure" and in well... "particular direction" - that simple. lol

So... what I'm trying to say, you're likely too hard on yourself, this just happens to be a razor that's not a good match for you. Shame though, but you know SS works perfectly for you, so not the end of the world.

I hear where you're coming from and I agree with you on certain razors as far as how important good technique is to getting a good shave and how it's been hyped. But I have to say with all of my more efficient razors like my CG Level 3 OC, Ikon Tech, R41 and I guess you could throw in my Timeless .95 OC and ATT SE 2OC I think good technique does make a difference. If you look at a very efficient razors I mentioned like you would a straight razor and apply the technique of skin stretching and short strokes it will not only tame the razor IF your having problems getting a nick free, irritation free shave but you'll get a closer shave in less passes and it will be far less likely to nick you and get irritation. Like I said I think there are some razors where using the normal 3 pass, no pressure long stroke method will work with any razor but using that method certain razors won't work for many people. My Bronze is on it's way and I can't wait to take it for a spin with the OC plate.
Great shaves!

 

[Bbb34]

I hear where you're coming from and I agree with you on certain razors as far as how important good technique is to getting a good shave and how it's been hyped. But I have to say with all of my more efficient razors like my CG Level 3 OC, Ikon Tech, R41 and I guess you could throw in my Timeless .95 OC and ATT SE 2OC I think good technique does make a difference. If you look at a very efficient razors I mentioned like you would a straight razor and apply the technique of skin stretching and short strokes it will not only tame the razor IF your having problems getting a nick free, irritation free shave but you'll get a closer shave in less passes and it will be far less likely to nick you and get irritation. Like I said I think there are some razors where using the normal 3 pass, no pressure long stroke method will work with any razor but using that method certain razors won't work for many people. My Bronze is on it's way and I can't wait to take it for a spin with the OC plate.
Great shaves!

I hear you, and have zero issue with anything stated. What I meant is, it's not something that should take years (or even months) to master. Yes, there's initial learning curve for sure, but it's still relatively simple task of shaving. A bit of reading, listening and trial and error should get everyone to the point of no cuts or irritation fairly quickly.

In my personal experience, starting with straight razor about 5 months ago I had many doubts about my "technique".
Being new to it, initially I was absolutely terrified, "am I capable?", "why am I doing this?", "will I be skilled enough?", "how much blood will there be?". And, guess what, it was way easier than I ever though it would be. Only couple of tinniest nicks in the process, and within few weeks my confidence was quite high, on all aspects of it, from stropping to shaving fairly efficiently and reasonably well too.

What's my point (besides stressing how well I'm doing with straights (just kidding).. lol ).
Yes I agree with you, technique matters, but it should be something that's quickly mastered, it's not a rocket science.

Looking forward to reading your impression on Bronze though which (un)fortunately doesn't appeal to me for few reasons. I like longer handles and prefer look of SS. Besides, two SS base plates I have are so satisfying that I have zero desire for anything else, except perhaps more SS plates (OC or straight base plate, different handle perhaps).

 

[User 306]

I hear you, and have zero issue with anything stated. What I meant is, it's not something that should take years (or even months) to master. Yes, there's initial learning curve for sure, but it's still relatively simple task of shaving. A bit of reading, listening and trial and error should get everyone to the point of no cuts or irritation fairly quickly.

In my personal experience, starting with straight razor about 5 months ago I had many doubts about my "technique".
Being new to it, initially I was absolutely terrified, "am I capable?", "why am I doing this?", "will I be skilled enough?", "how much blood will there be?". And, guess what, it was way easier than I ever though it would be. Only couple of tinniest nicks in the process, and within few weeks my confidence was quite high, on all aspects of it, from stropping to shaving fairly efficiently and reasonably well too.

What's my point (besides stressing how well I'm doing with straights (just kidding).. lol ).
Yes I agree with you, technique matters, but it should be something that's quickly mastered, it's not a rocket science.

Looking forward to reading your impression on Bronze though which (un)fortunately doesn't appeal to me for few reasons. I like longer handles and prefer look of SS. Besides, two SS base plates I have are so satisfying that I have zero desire for anything else, except perhaps more SS plates (OC or straight base plate, different handle perhaps).

I agree it's not rocket science and there is an initial learning curve. I personally have liked doing a lot of experimenting with different techniques along the way since starting 8 yrs ago which I feel has now given me the ability to pretty much pick up any razor and dial it in very quickly and get at least a good or more often a great shave out of the razor I'm using.

One of my Timeless SS razors has a dual baseplate. .95 OC/SB and I love it so since you mentioned it that would give you a chance to try a couple of different base plates in one.

On the Bronze It is my plan to see how I like the razor in person. A member/friend on here sold it to me for a very very good price with both baseplates and if I like the way it shaves I'm sending it out to Chris@razorplate for ether a white Rhodium plating or a new finish Chris is playing with called Black Krome. I'd rather it be one of my 2 SS Timeless razoes as I do like the looks better than the Bronze at least from photos but as you know its not advisable to replate a SS razor and Chris won't touch one as he's explain to me why it's not a good idea. So since the Bronze Timeless didn't cost me much and it's finish will lend itself to a replate very well so it's my first choice. Of course that's if I like the way it shaves. If not then I'll sell it and use a Charcoal Goods razor as they are all brass and it would be no problem replating it but I'd have to get it high polished first so a lot more expense involved in using a CG razor compared to the Bronze Timeless.
I'll post up how it shaves for me soon.

 

[TheKman]

... I'm sending it out to Chris@razorplate for ether a white Rhodium plating or a new finish Chris is playing with called Black Krome.

Oooo. I vote white Rhodium.

 

[User 306]

Oooo. I vote white Rhodium.

It would look awesome in White Rhodium. Maybe a combo of both black and white.

 

[muzichead]

Black and White is good....