The Quest: DFS + 0 Irritation or Ingrown Hairs

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I would not worry about using a razor, BabySmooth or whatever, which worked for me with an available blade. True, it might not work in 20 years, but who cares? Shaves are today. People get run over by busses.

One razor which works and one blade which works in that razor is a great blessing!

I have used only one blade in my Colonial General, and don't even care to try the (few) others available. I have only about 388 new Prolines, and they might quit making them. The problem is this is about as good as anything I've found and I'm still not getting the shave I want.

I would consider you lucky if your razor works as well as it sounds like it does. What's that they say, "If it ain't broke....?"

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Sharp&Shiny]

I would not worry about using a razor, BabySmooth or whatever, which worked for me with an available blade. True, it might not work in 20 years, but who cares? Shaves are today. People get run over by busses.

One razor which works and one blade which works in that razor is a great blessing!

I have used only one blade in my Colonial General, and don't even care to try the (few) others available. I have only about 388 new Prolines, and they might quit making them. The problem is this is about as good as anything I've found and I'm still not getting the shave I want.

I would consider you lucky if your razor works as well as it sounds like it does. What's that they say, "If it ain't broke....?"

Happy shaves,

Jim

I was actually thinking about that earlier today. I was asking myself if I would be still using my RazoRock Mamba if my beard changes. I thought I may buy a Rockwell 6s and put it away or maybe the Rex Supply Ambassador, not many reviews on the Ambassador though. I quickly dismissed the thought though, I’m more of a now person and my Mamba does the job for now. Idk I’m just rambling...

 

[Johnnynroy]

I wish I had more time with the 6s. I used it on a pass around. It did work quite well for me, but I couldn’t go ATG with it easily. It seemed to give me some irritation ATG and start in on ingrown hairs as well.

For me, the concern with looking to the future is how much trouble I’ve been having with shaving, even after starting DE shaving. If I box myself into a corner with a razor that only likes sharp blades and I’m using the sharpest out there, I have nowhere to go but a different razor once that combo stops working. I am still pretty young but have a seemingly ridiculously coarse and thick beard. If that gets worse, I will have to go through all of this work again. I don’t want to do that.

I am quite blessed to have found something that works, I will admit. But, this could stop working at any time and I have nowhere to go but a different razor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sharp&Shiny]

I don’t think you would have to go through it again. Stick with what works and then you would be able to get a good shave out of almost anything. I learned by feel and mostly self taught but there are combinations of certain things that just will not work for me. All that said an adjustable razor will grow with you. Speaking of adjustables, did you return the Supply injector? I haven’t used mine much but I kept it.

 

[Johnnynroy]

I don’t think you would have to go through it again. Stick with what works and then you would be able to get a good shave out of almost anything. I learned by feel and mostly self taught but there are combinations of certain things that just will not work for me. All that said an adjustable razor will grow with you. Speaking of adjustables, did you return the Supply injector? I haven’t used mine much but I kept it.

I haven’t returned the supply yet. I’m still hopeful that I just haven’t given it enough time yet. I have that one and the Parker Variant. Unfortunately, the Variant seems to not give me as good of shaves as I’d like. Lack of rigidity in it as in many other razors. Wouldn’t be a huge problem if I could get the underside of my jaw or chin to anything remotely resembling a SAS just going WTG and XTG. Unfortunately, those areas require ATG passes, and often multiple directions of XTG/ATG hybrid passes. Lack of rigidity gives me some nice weepers, nicks and irritation going ATG. Maybe this is a technique issue. But I’ve been attempting to figure out ATG shaving since I started back in June and still haven’t gotten a totally irritation free ATG pass. I’ve been close several times. The closest is either with the RR OLD or the RR Baby Smooth.

I am planning a den purge after the holidays. The Variant and supply will definitely stick around, as will the RR OLD. My RR Hawk V2 will also stay, the V1 will go. I probably won’t be keeping any of my other 15-20 razors. I’m not fully against my GEM razors, but I haven’t been able to get them to work well for me. I’ll give the MM Clog Pruf another go, but the rest are almost certainly going to go. Also will be getting rid of all my soaps but cella, haslinger, Proraso Red and green, and captains choice soaps/creams. So that’s another 10-20 products there.

So I’m left again wondering if I should just go on with the Baby Smooth or the OLD type for awhile or continue my search. I am fairly certain that the Baby Smooth isn’t going to get me to where I want to be. I’ve had to take a day off shaving every now and then while using it daily. I don’t think it is too aggressive for my face, but that the lack of rigidity allows irritation to occur and build. The day off lets my face heal. I didn’t need to take as many days off when using most other razors, so this says to me that something about this combo is off. I’ll try to get things back on track when I get home with the RR OLD or the RR Hawk V2. Hope everyone has a good holiday!

 

[Johnnynroy]

Two posts to do today, we'll start with the shave report:

Pre-Shave: Desert Essence Tea Tree Oil Face Wash, conditioner on beard for five minutes (change from normal)
Razor: RazoRock Baby Smooth
Blade: Gillette 7 O'clock Yellow (SharpEdge)
Cream: Proraso Red shave cream
Aftershave: Proraso Red aftershave lotion, Geo F. Trumper's Lime Skin Food, extensive styptic pencil use

WTG pass was amazing compared to yesterday's shave. Got to the exact same level of beard reduction with one pass as I got with the ~two I did yesterday. SAS for sure, little new irritation. I don't know if I have described my neck WTGish pass yet, but I go N-S from on my jaw to just underneath, then reverse and go S-N from the bottom of my neck to where I stop under my jawline. From chin to Adam's apple I go N-S, also WTG.

XTG pass ear to nose on both sides on my cheeks, then N-S angling towards my ear on my neck. From my Adam's apple to my chin I go ATG, S-N the whole way.

My eventual goal is to make this my shave every day, a full 2 pass type of shave. Today, unfortunately, I forgot how stinking sharp the Gillette Yellows are when fresh. Leveled off quite a few areas, some weepers and one slight nick on my jawline. Whoops. Styptic made quick work of them, but always seems to irritate my skin (or at least turn it red and angry looking). Most reports say styptic and alum turn people's skin a whitish color. The alum never did, only if I use a lot of styptic will my skin turn white. Normal response for me is red and angry. Some other irritation on my neck, my cheeks also have the red spots that I noticed back in October with the GEM Jr. I am fairly certain that in this instance it is due to the blade flexing and digging in when shaving with the Baby Smooth. I don't feel this happening with the Gillette Yellow, due to its sharpness and smoothness. No ingrown hairs, but much more irritation than I'd like.

Closeness: A. Solid DFS with two passes. This is about where I'd like to be in regards to closeness of a shave. If I get BBS, I don't always have enough growth the next day to shave off. This then turns into five o'clock shadow around 10 in the morning so that I wished I had shaved. I think my initial DFS goal for me is a good one. Too much ATG and I get ingrown hairs. I can't get a true BBS without lots of ATG shaving, so setting that aside is likely a benefit to me.

Irritation: C. A lot of this irritation is residual from yesterday's rough shave, but I also think I was having the blade digging out little areas on my face for almost a week without noticing.

Ingrown Hairs: A? None that I can tell. I had one a few days ago that has resolved. I don't think today's shave will generate any new ones.

Overall, I am doubting the ability of the Baby Smooth to deliver the shave I am looking for consistently. Not a bad shave today (better than probably all of my cartridge shaves) but not the shave I would want day in and day out.

 

[Sharp&Shiny]

I own a RazoRock Baby Smooth TI and I got really nice shaves with it but I quickly found out I would get irritation if I overdid it with too many passes and didn’t pay attention to the angle. I liked it with a Gillette SharpEdge too, very easy ATG pass. I think you should try the RazoRock Mamba for me it’s an easy DFS and BBS with some ATG buffing. Really mild but efficient. Any irritation I have gotten with it only lasts minutes and any weeper are dealt with a splash of water. This only happens because I’m reckless and I ignore the grain and touch up without relathering. The other razor is the Supply with the Chinese Schick blades. I glad your shaves have improved significantly in the lasts few months. Tbh I’m still searching for my perfect setup. Merry Christmas to you and everyone.

 

[Johnnynroy]

As we approach the end of the year, I have been reflecting on my shaves a lot. I do this anyway most days, but I have been trying to determine where I am in my shave journey, and if this is where I want to be. With that in mind, I decided to reanalyze my goals:

1. Ingrown hair and Irritation-free shave. This is why I came to traditional wet shaving with a safety razor. I want ingrowns, irritation, razor burn and their ilk to be a thing of the past.
2. DFS level shave. This might be a stretch. A good CCS is probably enough, but I would prefer to not have 5 o'clock shadow around 1 in the afternoon. DFS usually carries me into the next day without looking too scruffy.
3. Reduce my shave den size. I have acquired far too many things during my short time wetshaving. One razor (maybe two). One or two brushes. One or two blades. Rotation of soaps, creams, aftershaves. This is the eventual goal. I don't see myself as having a rotation of razors. One more efficient razor and one gentler razor is a possibility. A few blades I think is almost a certainty, as I sometimes need different things in a specific shave. I think I have finally determined a good set of soaps/aftershaves for me and my skin: Proraso Red/Green, Captain's Choice, Cella, Haslinger, Trumper's Skin Food.
4. Comfortable shave with no or minimal damage to my skin. The Baby Smooth is comfortable, but it is doing something odd to my face with the digging in of the blade. This is definitely not ideal.
5. Shave daily. I enjoy my shaves far too much at this point to not be shaving nearly every day. If I take a day off, I want it to be by my choice and not because my kit is forcing me to do so.
6. Infrequent (less than once a week) use of styptic pencil. Maybe this goes with irritation free or skin damage, but separating them is important as I think this can be improved with better technique. Although some razors and blade combos do seem more prone to this occurring. I think too much styptic is a significant source of irritation for my skin.
7. Reduce my time shaving. I used to take ten minutes to shave with foam and a cartridge. Yep, I'm slow. This was due to the razor burn and irritation that I got with the carts. I am around 30-40 minutes with DE shaving. Some days I can get this down a lot. Actual shaving time isn't very long (about five minutes a pass or so). But I spend a full five minutes or more getting my lather right, then clean up and allowing aftershave and styptic to dry can take awhile too.
8. I would like to have a razor that is safe enough to use when sleep deprived. A razor that requires full attention is not likely to serve me well in the coming years, as I am likely to be very low on sleep going forward in my career.

Analyzing my current kit on the most important items (the top of the list), this kit is not correct for these goals. The failure point appears to be the razor. The question is why is the Baby Smooth not giving me the shave I want? Mike @Esox and Jim @Chan Eil Whiskers, among others, have kindly suggested rigidity is something I need. They are absolutely correct. @Dovo1695 has suggested that the most important aspect of rigidity is free end distance. Free end distance isn't really advertised by any razor manufacturer's, and is also somewhat variable razor to razor based on tolerances. Blade exposure is advertised by some, but this isn't a great correlate for anything related to rigidity.

I have tried several platforms of razors, and considered straight shaving as a potential solution as well. My (brief) thoughts on each:

DE: Lots of blade selection, hundreds of razors. Few are truly rigid, with low free end distance.
Artist Club safety razors: Less blade selection than DE, but more than GEM. Several high quality (and somewhat high dollar) razors available. All are quite rigid. The blade length from end to end is at times almost too wide for the shape of my neck, but better technique could fix this issue.
Injector razors: Limited blade selection (Personna from Ted Pella, Chinese Schicks, Schick Proline), many vintage razors, a few new razors available. Very rigid, although the blade stops sometimes annoy me, and I think irritate my skin.
GEM Razors: Quite limited blade selection (Carbon, Stainless, Stainless with PTFE), many vintage razors, a few new razors but very expensive. Very rigid, same blade stop issues.

I enjoyed my use of the Feather Pros and Kai Captain Milds in my only AC razor, the RR Hawk V2. The Schick Proline wasn't as smooth or efficient as I was hoping, but I only have two shaves in with it. I get weepers with the Hawk if I am not careful. Part of me wonders if this is due to the light weight (it's aluminum), but I also get weepers with the Supply Single Edge V2 (an injector razor). I almost always associate weepers with too much pressure, so these are a technique problem. This or DE likely have the most potential for me. The Stainless General comes out tomorrow. It is relatively inexpensive compared to most other AC razors, and could give me the shaves I'm looking for. That is quite difficult to know without trying it out. Perhaps it is worth the try as it can probably be sold on the BST without much loss due to its relative rarity.

The GEM format hasn't seemed to work out nearly as well as the others. Too little pressure and no cutting. A bit more and I get weepers and razor burn. The GEM Jr seemed to work well, but the cap seems to not clamp down properly, so the left side has more blade exposure compared to the right due to how the cap is used to get the proper shaving angle. The MM Clog Pruf has been quite harsh on my face, but very efficient. Would something like the Blackland Sabre or ATT G-1 be better? No idea but they're horrendously expensive for a format I've not been impressed with. So far, the vintage ones haven't worked out well for me (including the bullet tip and G bar).

The DE format is the most popular by far. I have a lot of these razors, but few are rigid with low free end distance. The RR DE1, PAA BOCS and Fatip Piccolo/Grande are my likely next attempts in the DE format as these have full baseplate support and a smaller free end distance (the PAA BOCS is an unknown free end distance right now). These are relatively cheap. The Timeless designs are all rigid. Looking at other high end razors that get rave reviews (Charcoal goods, Blackland Blackbird, Wolfman, Paradigm 17-4, Above The Tie) only the Wolfman seem to have the baseplate supporting the the blade to the edge of the cap. The Timeless razors are expensive, but along with the ATT have a 30 day return policy. I have not analyzed the ATT slant as much as I probably should. And then there is the Rockwell 6s. I tried it in a passaround, and decided to go back through my shave reports with it to determine how those shaves compare to my current ones. It isn't a rigid design. But, if I am only going for a DFS level of shave, it might be a good option. I never tried shimming it. It did give me ingrown hairs doing a full ATG pass. But my irritation was seemingly quite low and I was very happy with it and a Gillette Yellow. Hm, interesting that I tried out that blade in it and had forgotten.

So where has this long winded (sorry) post gotten me? I see five possibilities:

1. Buy the Stainless General tomorrow, hoping that the AC format is right for me and that this is the correct AC razor.
2. Buy an ATT SE1 Calypso (aluminum). This will be somewhat different from my RR Hawk V2 in the cap and baseplate, but likely similar in weight. I also get a 30 day trial period in which I can trade this in and maybe try out either an ATT Stainless SE1/SE2 or even try out one of their DE razors.
3. Buy a Timeless Bronze. Also a 30 day return, so if this isn't right, I can try out their other options.
4. Try out the cheap DE razors - Fatip Grande/Piccolo, PAA BOCS, or RR DE1.
5. Continue with my current razors, hoping the right one is already here.

I'm leaning towards the General. I think it is likely a stainless Hawk V2 would be about the right razor for me. So, a stainless General could be exactly right for me. The ATT is also very attractive as Stan has tons of options. I'll have to contemplate this for at least a few hours...

 

[Esox]

It seems as though you're basically set on one blade, Gillette Yellow. Have you used that blade in all your best razors?

Personally, I'd sort my razors and decide which I'd be keeping and I'd buy 100 Yellows if you havent yet. I would then explore new razors, starting with the least expensive. If I didnt get the shaves I wanted, I would keep the best of those new ones and start working up the list.

You really want a Timeless and I understand that feeling. I have several rifles, shotguns and knives to attest to my desires lol. That desire wont be satisfied until you finally use one so you will try one eventually. For the sake of your wallet, try the less expensive razors first. If you still arent as happy as you want to be, then by all means, chase the desire.

Once you have finally satisfied all your razor desires and have found the Grande, I mean Grail heh, assuming Gillette Yellows are still your blade, buy lots. Modern DE razors can be easily replaced, a discontinued blade may not be so easy to replace. Seeing as you only have one at this stage, if I had to rely on a single blade, I'd make sure I had enough to last me a very long time.

Merry Christmas

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I've not shaved with any of the GEMS in my little collection, but I have read a lot about them. Enough to determine that the various GEM razors shave in ways dissimilar to one another to a significant degree.

I'm in the process of determining which GEM razors I want in my collection in addition to the ones I have. I bought a rough looking GEM Damaskeene yesterday on ebay; I looked a lot to find one that was inexpensive enough, about $20 with shipping was the best I could find for one that looked like it would work properly. They tend to be pricey especially for GEMs; I suspect part of that is because they are said to be both mild and efficient. Also, I read a good bit on the Damaskeene to determine what to look for. I bought an early model. They can apparently be rusty because they're steel. I'll find out in a week or thereabouts whether mine is worth what I paid for it.

There are at least two very different GEM razors called the GEM Junior. I have the one made later in history, and not the earlier version. There are numerous other models of GEMS.

I believe you're saying the GEM you've used which has given you problems is somehow broken or damaged or defective. I know the two GEM razors I've put a blade in - the MMOC and the G-Bar - very firmly and evenly clamp the blade; they do an amazing job of it.

It doesn't seem terribly easy trying to figure out how all these GEMs actually shave, but that is not surprising. Is there readily available, generally agreed upon information about how any razor shaves?

For example, I have a mint or near mint EverReady 1924. The angle for it is very atypical (I have the original package insert instructions). Some say it is super aggressive (bad). Others say it is incredibly mild and efficient. It might be an excellent razor for me? Or you?

I really need to put a blade in some of the GEM razors I already own (the ones at my office) to help me determine how they're likely to shave. Some of them have very unusual looking combs, but I don't know exactly how the blade fits in or works with the comb designs. I think once the Damaskeene currently in transit arrives I can get a good view of the situation.

Lots of people like the 1912 (many varieties of that razor). Lather catchers have their fans, but I don't have one or understand them at all really.

Of course, none of that is the same as shaving with the GEM and I've not done that nor will I in the very near future. I have other plans first.

All of this is to say that I'm not sure you've exhausted the vintage GEM platform.

The Fatip is a much better razor than its price point would indicate. Rigid as all get out. No gap to speak of. Not aggressive, for me anyway. I wouldn't throw it around on my face, but I find it easy to shave with. I want more efficiency, but maybe I've not spent enough time with the Fatip. I think you'd like it.

In the same vein, the SS General is, I believe from my studies, a razor superior or equal to many of the other far more expensive modern SS AC razors. All of them seem somewhat different from one another, and yet all have their fans and detractors. I like my General a lot more than I used to, and I always like it. It has been a good razor for my Fixed Four month with it, and I was using it before the Fixed.

Your post #168 is very interesting and somewhat mirrors many of my issues even though you and I have different skin and all that. I certainly understand the need you are likely to have for a fast shave as you go through the next several years of your training.

I really believe one of the GEM razors would work for you, but which one would be a lot of trial and error, or maybe a lucky, informed guess if you do enough homework. I also believe you could learn to get consistently good enough shaves with a Fatip Piccolo/Grande or a SS General.

When I say the Piccolo and the General are not as efficient as I want a razor to be that's me wanting a comfortable BBS neck every day of my life. I can very easily get a BBS face shave with most any razor, and I can get a DFS on my neck with a Piccolo or a General without much effort at all. One or two face passes and two or three neck passes does the DFS job, reliably and comfortably, if my technique is decent and my prep is as it usually is.

I'd suggest doing a Fixed Four (one razor, one brand of blade, one soap, and one brush) for a month ASAP.

None of that probably helps you at all, but I hope it does.

Happy holidays,

Jim

 

[Johnnynroy]

It seems as though you're basically set on one blade, Gillette Yellow. Have you used that blade in all your best razors?

Personally, I'd sort my razors and decide which I'd be keeping and I'd buy 100 Yellows if you havent yet. I would then explore new razors, starting with the least expensive. If I didnt get the shaves I wanted, I would keep the best of those new ones and start working up the list.

You really want a Timeless and I understand that feeling. I have several rifles, shotguns and knives to attest to my desires lol. That desire wont be satisfied until you finally use one so you will try one eventually. For the sake of your wallet, try the less expensive razors first. If you still arent as happy as you want to be, then by all means, chase the desire.

Once you have finally satisfied all your razor desires and have found the Grande, I mean Grail heh, assuming Gillette Yellows are still your blade, buy lots. Modern DE razors can be easily replaced, a discontinued blade may not be so easy to replace. Seeing as you only have one at this stage, if I had to rely on a single blade, I'd make sure I had enough to last me a very long time.

Merry Christmas

That blade has seemed to work well for me in most razors. Not all, but most. Astra SPs also work fairly well, but aren't as sharp.

I wouldn't say I really want a Timeless. I like the rigidity that it offers. I like what I've read about its smoothness and efficiency. I have read lots about the Fatips too. My concern with the Fatips has, and always will be, the "paying attention" aspect of shaving with them. "If I stop paying attention I notice blood." Common theme with the Fatips. You don't read that with the Timeless razors, which is why I am drawn to them. I don't want a razor that expensive. Heck, I hemmed and hawed over my Supply Single Edge and Parker Variant for at least a week or more each before pulling the trigger. My first purchase is likely to be a Stainless General, but I haven't ruled out something else instead. About twelve hours to decide.

 

[Johnnynroy]

I've not shaved with any of the GEMS in my little collection, but I have read a lot about them. Enough to determine that the various GEM razors shave in ways dissimilar to one another to a significant degree.

I'm in the process of determining which GEM razors I want in my collection in addition to the ones I have. I bought a rough looking GEM Damaskeene yesterday on ebay; I looked a lot to find one that was inexpensive enough, about $20 with shipping was the best I could find for one that looked like it would work properly. They tend to be pricey especially for GEMs; I suspect part of that is because they are said to be both mild and efficient. Also, I read a good bit on the Damaskeene to determine what to look for. I bought an early model. They can apparently be rusty because they're steel. I'll find out in a week or thereabouts whether mine is worth what I paid for it.

There are at least two very different GEM razors called the GEM Junior. I have the one made later in history, and not the earlier version. There are numerous other models of GEMS.

I believe you're saying the GEM you've used which has given you problems is somehow broken or damaged or defective. I know the two GEM razors I've put a blade in - the MMOC and the G-Bar - very firmly and evenly clamp the blade; they do an amazing job of it.

It doesn't seem terribly easy trying to figure out how all these GEMs actually shave, but that is not surprising. Is there readily available, generally agreed upon information about how any razor shaves?

For example, I have a mint or near mint EverReady 1924. The angle for it is very atypical (I have the original package insert instructions). Some say it is super aggressive (bad). Others say it is incredibly mild and efficient. It might be an excellent razor for me? Or you?

I really need to put a blade in some of the GEM razors I already own (the ones at my office) to help me determine how they're likely to shave. Some of them have very unusual looking combs, but I don't know exactly how the blade fits in or works with the comb designs. I think once the Damaskeene currently in transit arrives I can get a good view of the situation.

Lots of people like the 1912 (many varieties of that razor). Lather catchers have their fans, but I don't have one or understand them at all really.

Of course, none of that is the same as shaving with the GEM and I've not done that nor will I in the very near future. I have other plans first.

All of this is to say that I'm not sure you've exhausted the vintage GEM platform.

The Fatip is a much better razor than its price point would indicate. Rigid as all get out. No gap to speak of. Not aggressive, for me anyway. I wouldn't throw it around on my face, but I find it easy to shave with. I want more efficiency, but maybe I've not spent enough time with the Fatip. I think you'd like it.

In the same vein, the SS General is, I believe from my studies, a razor superior or equal to many of the other far more expensive modern SS AC razors. All of them seem somewhat different from one another, and yet all have their fans and detractors. I like my General a lot more than I used to, and I always like it. It has been a good razor for my Fixed Four month with it, and I was using it before the Fixed.

Your post #168 is very interesting and somewhat mirrors many of my issues even though you and I have different skin and all that. I certainly understand the need you are likely to have for a fast shave as you go through the next several years of your training.

I really believe one of the GEM razors would work for you, but which one would be a lot of trial and error, or maybe a lucky, informed guess if you do enough homework. I also believe you could learn to get consistently good enough shaves with a Fatip Piccolo/Grande or a SS General.

When I say the Piccolo and the General are not as efficient as I want a razor to be that's me wanting a comfortable BBS neck every day of my life. I can very easily get a BBS face shave with most any razor, and I can get a DFS on my neck with a Piccolo or a General without much effort at all. One or two face passes and two or three neck passes does the DFS job, reliably and comfortably, if my technique is decent and my prep is as it usually is.

I'd suggest doing a Fixed Four (one razor, one brand of blade, one soap, and one brush) for a month ASAP.

None of that probably helps you at all, but I hope it does.

Happy holidays,

Jim

I agree I likely haven't exhausted the GEM platform fully. However, I have tried them enough to know roughly how the blades are compared to the AC blades. And I don't think the comparison is favorable to the GEMs. The GEMs don't seem as smooth, and also are slightly less sharp to me. I also get less shaves per blade out of them. This, with the difficulty I have under my nose, tells me I should abandon that area of search for the time being. There are enough other variables and this one is easily removed.

After more deliberation, I think the Stainless General or the Fatip Piccolo is the next purchase. Inexpensive enough, very efficient, likely to last for quite awhile. I don't care which one ends up working better, I just want one to be consistent. I can get a few great shaves from my combos, then the wheels fall off and I get irritation. Or I get weepers daily, and then I get tons more on subsequent shaves. Oh well, I'll see if I can get the General ordered tomorrow. If not, I'm not going to stress about it and go after the Fatip instead.

 

[Esox]

That blade has seemed to work well for me in most razors. Not all, but most. Astra SPs also work fairly well, but aren't as sharp.

I wouldn't say I really want a Timeless. I like the rigidity that it offers. I like what I've read about its smoothness and efficiency. I have read lots about the Fatips too. My concern with the Fatips has, and always will be, the "paying attention" aspect of shaving with them. "If I stop paying attention I notice blood." Common theme with the Fatips. You don't read that with the Timeless razors, which is why I am drawn to them. I don't want a razor that expensive. Heck, I hemmed and hawed over my Supply Single Edge and Parker Variant for at least a week or more each before pulling the trigger. My first purchase is likely to be a Stainless General, but I haven't ruled out something else instead. About twelve hours to decide.

For what its worth I could quite easily have come back to DE shaving and used my Grande without any more issues than I had when I did start using it, perhaps less. Its a safety razor. If you can use one you can use any. How effectively you can use it comes with ....well, using it.

The Fatip OC head is very user friendly. I was just discussing this with Rave and we agree. I remember before I bought mine and I had read all the intimidating things about them, but I also remembered TobyC saying they were very user friendly, which went against virtually all of what I had read. He was right. They are user friendly.

I really only had issues with one spot for my first maybe 6 or 8 shaves and it wasnt a fault of the razor, it was a weakness in my technique that I believe I picked up from using razors with gap.

As I shave I create a wave of skin ahead of the razor and blade. That wave of skin travels through a gap in the razors design. When my skin would bunch up at the right corner of my mouth, that gap would warn me to slow down, stretch my skin a little more and proceed with caution, because, that wave of skin had run out of distance to propagate. It could travel no further because of the direction I was shaving in.

Because I had become accustomed too doing that, my Grande with no gap gave no warning and would plane off some skin there every shave until I changed my habits. I now shave the same area differently. Instead of less pressure with a shallow angle, I shave in a slightly different direction and stretch my skin more so there is no wave too propagate.

My Grande is really a mindless shave. I need to concentrate more using my NEW SC and much more using my Regent. As I was shaving tonight I was actually thinking of that while I was buffing ATG on my neck and jawline and I actually closed my eyes and shaved by feel and sound. I dont even think about angle, I feel the razor and adjust accordingly. I know that if I can feel the blade, at all, I'm steeper than I usually am. When I have the right angle and I'm buffing I literally feel nothing. Even with this Polsilver that has 15 shaves on it. I felt nothing and heard very little after the majority of the stubble was gone, and this was at 54 hours since last shave.

When I finished my shave I had a close look at my neck and I had zero irritation. No redness, no warmth, nothing.

Dont be intimidated by the Fatips. Thats not an accurate representation of them. They're really kittens and like a kitten, any safety razor, can have very sharp claws and teeth. Respect them and they'll reward you for it.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I mostly agree with Mike's post. The Fatip razors are not aggressive. I do not understand why people say they are. They are plenty easy enough to shave with. I'm more likely to cut or nick myself with my Feather AS-D2 than I am with a Fatip or with a Colonial General, but that's just my experience. Mindless shaves? I doubt that about any razor. Even a cartridge can bite you.

Fatips are available anytime. The SS Colonial General is available on on certain days. Christmas 2017 is one of those days.

I hope you find the perfect razor for yourself.

Merry Christmas,

Jim

 

[Johnnynroy]

I mostly agree with Mike's post. The Fatip razors are not aggressive. I do not understand why people say they are. They are plenty easy enough to shave with. I'm more likely to cut or nick myself with my Feather AS-D2 than I am with a Fatip or with a Colonial General, but that's just my experience. Mindless shaves? I doubt that about any razor. Even a cartridge can bite you.

Fatips are available anytime. The SS Colonial General is available on on certain days. Christmas 2017 is one of those days.

I hope you find the perfect razor for yourself.

Merry Christmas,

Jim

I decided that the stainless General would give me a good example of a stainless ac style razor. Not a perfect example necessarily, but a good example. I managed to get one ordered even though I was about thirty minutes late to the site after release. As you said: the General is only available for a short time while the Fatips will always be around.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I decided that the stainless General would give me a good example of a stainless ac style razor. Not a perfect example necessarily, but a good example. I managed to get one ordered even though I was about thirty minutes late to the site after release. As you said: the General is only available for a short time while the Fatips will always be around.

I think you will like the SS Colonial General a lot.

I like it better now that I've polished the top of the cap. I followed Mike's advice about how to do it, and posted all the steps I followed, and the stuff I used. I'm not saying it has to be polished, and I certainly wouldn't polish it right away.

I like the razor best riding the cap, and I try to get very little to no blade feel. I will be delighted to follow along as you shave with the General. Doing a Fixed Four with it was a great experience for me.

Congratulations on your purchase.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Johnnynroy]

Santa was good to me this year (although I also gifted myself a few things). My Colonial General in Stainless Steel arrived. I got the Stirling Fan Shaped Badger in Butterscotch (I have only black handled brushes right now) along with an assortment of Stirling products. Unfortunately, the scents that were picked out for me are ones I know I react to, so I'll have to call them on Tuesday to see if I can arrange an exchange for some products with essential oil only. Otherwise they'll go into the BST pile... I also have the Captain's Choice Silvertip Badger Brush and Sandalwood Shave Soap, Aftershave and Balm, a few other gifts for myself.

I am hopeful that the General will give me fewer weepers. That has been something plaguing me for the past two months. I've gotten loads of them, with no clear indication as to the cause. My suspicion is too much pressure, but I have been trying very hard to use no pressure. We will see what the shave tomorrow brings!

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Santa was good to me this year (although I also gifted myself a few things). My Colonial General in Stainless Steel arrived. I got the Stirling Fan Shaped Badger in Butterscotch (I have only black handled brushes right now) along with an assortment of Stirling products. Unfortunately, the scents that were picked out for me are ones I know I react to, so I'll have to call them on Tuesday to see if I can arrange an exchange for some products with essential oil only. Otherwise they'll go into the BST pile... I also have the Captain's Choice Silvertip Badger Brush and Sandalwood Shave Soap, Aftershave and Balm, a few other gifts for myself.

I am hopeful that the General will give me fewer weepers. That has been something plaguing me for the past two months. I've gotten loads of them, with no clear indication as to the cause. My suspicion is too much pressure, but I have been trying very hard to use no pressure. We will see what the shave tomorrow brings!

That's Santa with a Colonial General SS disguised as the person most like the General.

I'd bet you're right about the weeper-pressure connection.

The General was, as you know, my first AC razor, and the first SE razor I used besides injectors. You have the advantage of having already used the several SE razors including the Hawk AC.

In my view of it from 40 or so shaves with it, the General likes to be way up on its head with just enough steepness to cut whiskers. I could hear a toast scrapping sound. It is a pretty audible razor for me. I spent a month learning to get the pressure down to just about nothing. It wants to glide. Not that it can't bite, but it likes to go fast across your skin. I don't recall getting a single weeper with it, just some nicks and maybe one or two cuts. Most shaves were entirely blade free.

I'm convinced polishing the top of the cap improved the glide and smoothness.

It is not a hard razor to use, and it is a very easy razor to like. Just take it easy and let the great shave come to you. I'd say under do the passes and aggressiveness for a while as you learn the razor. It is pretty efficient and pretty mild, too.



Santa really was very, very good to you. I'll be very interested in your reports. I believe you'll love that Stirling fan butterscotch, especially if you face lather. I know I love my butterscotch fan.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Esox]

I am hopeful that the General will give me fewer weepers. That has been something plaguing me for the past two months. I've gotten loads of them, with no clear indication as to the cause. My suspicion is too much pressure, but I have been trying very hard to use no pressure.

You might try stretching your skin a bit tighter. Razors blades are linear and flat. They like to shave a flat linear surface. Assuming you're using a rigid design and a sharp blade think of the razor as a wood plane and your skin the surface the plane is sliding over. One high spot and off it comes, a weeper.

The other thing I've learned is that no matter how little pressure you apply to your skin, there will be a 'wave' of skin ahead of the blade. It may be very small and quite likely is judging from the size of weepers that are occurring, but they can happen because that 'wave' has no distance to propagate into. The more pressure used, the taller that wave ahead of the blade becomes and the larger, and deeper, that weeper could be.

Think about the below pic and how waves propagate. The razor starting to move top left instigating that movement. The blue and/or red waves would be your skin surface ahead of the razor from the pressure applied. When those waves can no longer travel, they bunch up, you shave into and over them and plane off the tops creating a weeper.

This is why I was always getting a weeper right side of my mouth. The same spot every time. I'd be stroking from my ear towards the corner of my mouth. A wave of skin ahead of the razor and blade, and when I'd get to the corner of my mouth, that wave had no where to go, bunched up and I'd plane the top of that wave off just a tiny bit and get a weeper.

To overcome that I stretch my skin tighter and shave in a slightly different direction. Either slightly up or slightly down when I get to the same spot, but never straight into the corner of my mouth anymore. That wave needs a direction to travel in, so I gave it one. No more weeper there.

I can get weepers over my swirls as well with too steep an angle using my Grande. The stubble there can be difficult to cut and its quite dense. The Grande has generous blade exposure and when using a steep angle over those two areas I can actually feel the blade edge flexing against the resistance. The solution to that for me was a shallower angle so the blade edge would meet that resistance more squarely forcing the blade into the stubble instead of imparting flex to the edge. In essence, using a shallower angle to make the blade edge more rigid.

Shaving shallow over those two areas now with the same blade that would give me a weeper with a steep angle, wipes that stubble off like it was never there with a shallower angle.

Hydrodynamics and wave propagation in relation to shaving, who'd a thunk it! lol

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Mike's post is as is usual for him interesting and informative. I like the wave stuff a lot, and it probably couldn't be discussed any better (and also be understood by me).

I tried actual skin stretching while shaving with my General. Let's just say I had a bad day after that shave. I was not extreme with the stretching either. If you're going to skin stretch do one little area on day 1 to see what happens later as the day goes on.

Actually, I do a no-hands skin stretch routine on my neck most days. That's lifting my chin, turning my neck, and maneuvers such as that. Since I've been doing it forever I don't pay any attention to it. I also learned some around-the-mouth skin stretching which involves using my tongue in my mouth to push against areas around the mouth - mostly bottom lip and the areas immediately adjacent to the corners of my smile - to change concavities to convexities. I don't do this all the time, and it helps only if not done to much. I don't want to shave caves, nor mountains.

I suspect everyone does some face contortion skin stretching.

Also, flipping the blade after every use of the General seems to help the blade last longer, and be more effective and smooth. The General likes, on my face, a face lather which uses a lot of product first, applied almost like spackling paste (not quite but in that direction), and then, by adding water with the brush's tips, turned into a rather wet and foamy and thick lather. That's just my face and beard of course, and I can't say what the General likes on your face and beard. My lather is quite wet but not runny.

I would suggest a Fixed Four with the General. It allows full focus on learning only to shave with the razor. It is not a hard razor to shave with, but it has a learning curve if you want to shave well with it.

Happy shaves,

Jim