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- #41
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
The Chinese stuff on fleabay seemed to work okay for me and is cheaper than Ted Pella. YMMV. I go a month or two without repasting.
How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop
- Thread starter Slash McCoy
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The Chinese stuff on fleabay seemed to work okay for me and is cheaper than Ted Pella. YMMV. I go a month or two without repasting.
[MENTION=30791]Slash McCoy[/MENTION],
I've read your posting for the lapping films, great information. Do you integrate the pasted balsa strops with the lapping film progressions? Maybe replace the 1 or 0.3 u lapping film for stropping with the diamond pasted balsa strops as a finishing step? It'd be great to hear your thoughts on how you put them together.
I've read your posting for the lapping films, great information. Do you integrate the pasted balsa strops with the lapping film progressions? Maybe replace the 1 or 0.3 u lapping film for stropping with the diamond pasted balsa strops as a finishing step? It'd be great to hear your thoughts on how you put them together.
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- #43
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
I go to 1u film or 12k Nani, then to .5u diamond on balsa then .25u and finally .1u and my edges are usually sort of frightening which is how I like them. Before I started getting serious about optimizing the balsa, I used .3 film a lot, generally over picopaper. Don't need it now. The balsa rocks it. Likewise I don't regularly use 1u diamond as it just duplicates the final film or stone.
Of course you could drop the 1u film too, and jump straight from 3u film or 8k stone to 1u diamond on balsa, but I am in favor of maintaining the more precise and flat bevel, and tighter apex from the regular honing, further into the finishing stages of the progression. Try it the other way if you like. You will most certainly still get a very good edge. There are edges and there are edges. Do it like you feel it. Make it your own.
Of course you could drop the 1u film too, and jump straight from 3u film or 8k stone to 1u diamond on balsa, but I am in favor of maintaining the more precise and flat bevel, and tighter apex from the regular honing, further into the finishing stages of the progression. Try it the other way if you like. You will most certainly still get a very good edge. There are edges and there are edges. Do it like you feel it. Make it your own.
I am pleased to report that I have been using McCoy's pasted balsa method, and am quite happy with it.
On the down side, it's actually a bit more work than just daily leather plus the 12k naniwa once every couple months.
I do 20 laps on the .1u diamond pasted balsa, then 40 laps on leather, then shave.
The plus side is the consistency. Every day, always sharp, always the same. The traditional way meant a blade that slowly went south, then after honing, it was crisp again, and then of course started slowly going south again.
It doesn't stop me from enjoying my hobby. Figuring out my coticule, how to use a loup, how to enjoy other razors, all of it.
But it's nice to have something that just works. Maybe it's not as sexy as figuring out a stone progression. But sometimes you just want to turn the key and have your car start and take you to work in the morning.
John
On the down side, it's actually a bit more work than just daily leather plus the 12k naniwa once every couple months.
I do 20 laps on the .1u diamond pasted balsa, then 40 laps on leather, then shave.
The plus side is the consistency. Every day, always sharp, always the same. The traditional way meant a blade that slowly went south, then after honing, it was crisp again, and then of course started slowly going south again.
It doesn't stop me from enjoying my hobby. Figuring out my coticule, how to use a loup, how to enjoy other razors, all of it.
But it's nice to have something that just works. Maybe it's not as sexy as figuring out a stone progression. But sometimes you just want to turn the key and have your car start and take you to work in the morning.
John
Question about sequence.
Pasted balsa strop. Before or after the shave? Does it make any difference?
Some strop on leather, shave, then strop on pasted balsa, then put the razor away for next time.
Some, like me, do everything before the shave.
Thoughts, ideas?
Pasted balsa strop. Before or after the shave? Does it make any difference?
Some strop on leather, shave, then strop on pasted balsa, then put the razor away for next time.
Some, like me, do everything before the shave.
Thoughts, ideas?
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- #46
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
I do it after shaving. That way if I put it away and don't shave with it for a few months or years, when I break it out again it will only need a few dozen licks on the leather and it is ready to rock. I try to keep everything shave ready. Just seems like the right thing to do, to me. But if you prefer to use the diamond on balsa before shaving instead of after, it will work just as good. So do it like you feel it. whatever blows your skirt up.
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- #47
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
I just got a couple of the 3/4" acrylic bars everybody is raving about lately. I needed a new primary balsa for everyday use because I gave mine to my cousin, a fresh convert. So I glued a piece of 1/4" thick x 3" x 12" balsa to this 12 x 3-1/4" acrylic and decided to snap a couple of pics. In the first pic you can see my setup for lapping my balsa. (and for lapping stones, too.
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Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
And here I am lapping the balsa.
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- #49
Slash McCoy
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The magic paste. This is .1u. I got a tiny bit carried away actually, making up for the lower concentration of this batch, and ended up rubbing with my tshirt to remove excess. The last pic shows the stuff rubbed in thoroughly. The balsa is now ready for use.
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- #50
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
I thought I should post these very subjective results from my use of the flexible thin balsa strip as an unpasted strop.
I used my vintage pre-Dovo Bismarck for all shaves, about 40 of them, just to eliminate wild cards associated with different razors and have a valid and useful set of conclusions in a reasonably short time.
The flexible strip can improve the edge from the pasted balsa, at least a little bit. Sometimes you just nail it with the pasted balsa, and the flexible unpasted strip doesn't really have anything to do. Other times, you can detect a difference in the shave before and after use of the strip.
The flexible balsa strip used pre-shave is better than not stropping at all. However, the shave is somewhat better in all respects after stropping on a proper leather hanging strop. Leather strops used were a Big Daddy, a Mountain Mike 3", and a homemade 3" cowhide. All improved the shave over the balsa strip, with my homebrew strop having a slight edge over the other two leather strops. No canvas, felt, linen, poly, firehose, etc was used. I have never found it to be worth the small improvement that is duplicated by the leather, anyway.
So the question is whether the Flexible Unpasted Balsa Strip (FUBS, since we love acronyms here!) can be dispensed with altogether. For my money, the answer to that is no. It is good insurance against fin edge which in theory could be formed from over stropping on the pasted balsa. At least that is my opinion. Anyway, the edge is sometimes noticeably improved by it and never made any worse.
So, my post shave routine will continue to include 40 or 50 laps on the .1u pasted balsa, and 40 or 50 on the FUBS.
To make your own FUBS, simply get a 36" strip of 3" wide and 1/16" thick balsa from your local hobby store and cut off a third of it. I have tried lapping it and not lapping it, and my feeling is that it is too flexible and too soft to matter. To use, hold one end, and rest the other END on a fixed object, and strop with light pressure.
If you don't use a FUBS, be sure to add a few pull strokes on the pasted balsa. That will strip away edge artifacts and add just enough convexity to the apex.
I used my vintage pre-Dovo Bismarck for all shaves, about 40 of them, just to eliminate wild cards associated with different razors and have a valid and useful set of conclusions in a reasonably short time.
The flexible strip can improve the edge from the pasted balsa, at least a little bit. Sometimes you just nail it with the pasted balsa, and the flexible unpasted strip doesn't really have anything to do. Other times, you can detect a difference in the shave before and after use of the strip.
The flexible balsa strip used pre-shave is better than not stropping at all. However, the shave is somewhat better in all respects after stropping on a proper leather hanging strop. Leather strops used were a Big Daddy, a Mountain Mike 3", and a homemade 3" cowhide. All improved the shave over the balsa strip, with my homebrew strop having a slight edge over the other two leather strops. No canvas, felt, linen, poly, firehose, etc was used. I have never found it to be worth the small improvement that is duplicated by the leather, anyway.
So the question is whether the Flexible Unpasted Balsa Strip (FUBS, since we love acronyms here!) can be dispensed with altogether. For my money, the answer to that is no. It is good insurance against fin edge which in theory could be formed from over stropping on the pasted balsa. At least that is my opinion. Anyway, the edge is sometimes noticeably improved by it and never made any worse.
So, my post shave routine will continue to include 40 or 50 laps on the .1u pasted balsa, and 40 or 50 on the FUBS.
To make your own FUBS, simply get a 36" strip of 3" wide and 1/16" thick balsa from your local hobby store and cut off a third of it. I have tried lapping it and not lapping it, and my feeling is that it is too flexible and too soft to matter. To use, hold one end, and rest the other END on a fixed object, and strop with light pressure.
If you don't use a FUBS, be sure to add a few pull strokes on the pasted balsa. That will strip away edge artifacts and add just enough convexity to the apex.
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- #51
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Here is an edge straight off the .1u diamond on balsa. Razor is a pre-Dovo Bismarck. Magnification is fairly high, about 200x I think. Scope was one of those fiddly things that clamps on to your phone. Anyway you can see in this edge that the bevel is quite flat and smooth, and no gnarly bits hanging off the edge, and a fairly decent apex line if I do say so myself.
I just got some .025u, or 25nm diamond slurry in, and I have more balsa. I am just waiting for some more acrylic to glue it to, and then I will set up a balsa with the ultra super duper fine diamond and see how it does. I would almost bet that the difference is not really detectable but in theory there should be some theoretical improvement. Meanwhile I just did a treetop test and this is about as silent as it gets with this razor. Bismarcks don't sing, but it is not exactly a quiet razor, either, and right off the films or stones it tinks pretty loud when it catches hair tips. So, a definite improvement in keenness.
This scope probably will not be able to show improvement with the 25nm diamond. I am hoping for a dead silent treetopping, and a stunning shave.
The edge shown is typical of what I have on my razors. The most common reason for my edges to deteriorate is not enough laps and too much pressure, it seems. The most common reasons for failure by others is using too much diamond, not rubbing it in good, not enough laps, and not lapping the balsa. And warp. The balsa needs to be glued to something before lapping it. Oh, and stubbornly insisting on using CrOx and FeOx instead of diamond. Don't know about CBN yet. I will try it some day. But really, the diamond seems to be the bee's knees for me. So if you try this method, and you aren't doing it correctly, don't be surprised at your results. Freestyling will give you freestyle results.
I should be able to post results from the 25nm diamond in a few days.
I just got some .025u, or 25nm diamond slurry in, and I have more balsa. I am just waiting for some more acrylic to glue it to, and then I will set up a balsa with the ultra super duper fine diamond and see how it does. I would almost bet that the difference is not really detectable but in theory there should be some theoretical improvement. Meanwhile I just did a treetop test and this is about as silent as it gets with this razor. Bismarcks don't sing, but it is not exactly a quiet razor, either, and right off the films or stones it tinks pretty loud when it catches hair tips. So, a definite improvement in keenness.
This scope probably will not be able to show improvement with the 25nm diamond. I am hoping for a dead silent treetopping, and a stunning shave.
The edge shown is typical of what I have on my razors. The most common reason for my edges to deteriorate is not enough laps and too much pressure, it seems. The most common reasons for failure by others is using too much diamond, not rubbing it in good, not enough laps, and not lapping the balsa. And warp. The balsa needs to be glued to something before lapping it. Oh, and stubbornly insisting on using CrOx and FeOx instead of diamond. Don't know about CBN yet. I will try it some day. But really, the diamond seems to be the bee's knees for me. So if you try this method, and you aren't doing it correctly, don't be surprised at your results. Freestyling will give you freestyle results.
I should be able to post results from the 25nm diamond in a few days.
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Slash,
Thanks for the detailed description of your technique. Makes razor care an affordable endeavor.
One question: Where did you get the acrylic plates? Elegant alternative to tile, etc.
Thanks
Mark
Thanks for the detailed description of your technique. Makes razor care an affordable endeavor.
One question: Where did you get the acrylic plates? Elegant alternative to tile, etc.
Thanks
Mark
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- #53
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
CNC PRECISION CUT CELL CAST ACRYLIC/PLEXIGLASS CLEAR SHEET 1/2 " x 3 " x 12 " | eBay for a cheaper 1/2" thick one. I just got a couple this size and loaded one up with balsa and 25nm diamond slurry from Ken Schwartz. I was not able to detect any difference from the .1u diamond paste but maybe a couple hundred laps will make the difference. This is a 4:1 jump in grit. But anyway, this seller will cut any size any thickness you want. I got 3/4" thick first, and it is a pleasure to hold. With the half inch, watch out for your fingertips.
I have to try this. Thank you so much for the post. I have some balsa and 2 inch belting leather that I want to make strops out of for small wood carving tools. Thanks again!
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- #55
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Update:
I know I said don't use plastic for a backing, but lately I have been using 3/4” and even 1/2” acrylic. CNC PRECISION CUT CELL CAST ACRYLIC/PLEXIGLASS CLEAR SHEET 1/2 " x 3 " x 12 " is a link that might still work. This will work fine for lapping film, too. Anyway it seems to be flat enough, and have good dimensional stability. At 1/2" or better thickness, flex is insignificant.
Another thing I have been trying is .01u diamond spray. No, not a typo. A hundredth of a micron. 10 nanometers. At this grit the effect is nearly like just plain balsa. It takes an edge that is already crazy sharp, and a lot of laps, to see any benefit from this grit. The balsa really needs to be flat and smooth. The first couple sessions I saw zero improvement. It is simply too fine. I ended up going back to the .5u, .25u, and .1u diamond, ending with several hundred extremely light laps on the .1u. This left the bevel as highly polished as I could get it. Every 100 laps I stopped and gave it a few pull strokes to keep the edge clear of fins. Finally I went 200 laps on .01 diamond, with the final 100 laps dead light pressure. This did give a noticeable further improvement, the sharpest edge I have ever shaved with.
Now, my maintenance routine once I have given a razor the extra attention on the diamond balsa progression, is 200 laps on the .01 diamond after every shave. It doesn't always deliver, but it usually does. I can't tell during the stropping if I have used enough laps; I have to just count laps and cross my fingers.
Is it necessary? Of course not. It is a waste of time and money. But its mine to waste, and I don't mind wasting it chasing the sharpness dragon. The properly executed .1u edge is crazy sharp already. I just wanted folks to get an idea of what might be possible for a ridiculous extra effort.
Meanwhile, I don't find grits coarser than .1u necessary for daily maintenance. I do use 50 to 100 laps, though, and a few pull strokes.
I know I said don't use plastic for a backing, but lately I have been using 3/4” and even 1/2” acrylic. CNC PRECISION CUT CELL CAST ACRYLIC/PLEXIGLASS CLEAR SHEET 1/2 " x 3 " x 12 " is a link that might still work. This will work fine for lapping film, too. Anyway it seems to be flat enough, and have good dimensional stability. At 1/2" or better thickness, flex is insignificant.
Another thing I have been trying is .01u diamond spray. No, not a typo. A hundredth of a micron. 10 nanometers. At this grit the effect is nearly like just plain balsa. It takes an edge that is already crazy sharp, and a lot of laps, to see any benefit from this grit. The balsa really needs to be flat and smooth. The first couple sessions I saw zero improvement. It is simply too fine. I ended up going back to the .5u, .25u, and .1u diamond, ending with several hundred extremely light laps on the .1u. This left the bevel as highly polished as I could get it. Every 100 laps I stopped and gave it a few pull strokes to keep the edge clear of fins. Finally I went 200 laps on .01 diamond, with the final 100 laps dead light pressure. This did give a noticeable further improvement, the sharpest edge I have ever shaved with.
Now, my maintenance routine once I have given a razor the extra attention on the diamond balsa progression, is 200 laps on the .01 diamond after every shave. It doesn't always deliver, but it usually does. I can't tell during the stropping if I have used enough laps; I have to just count laps and cross my fingers.
Is it necessary? Of course not. It is a waste of time and money. But its mine to waste, and I don't mind wasting it chasing the sharpness dragon. The properly executed .1u edge is crazy sharp already. I just wanted folks to get an idea of what might be possible for a ridiculous extra effort.
Meanwhile, I don't find grits coarser than .1u necessary for daily maintenance. I do use 50 to 100 laps, though, and a few pull strokes.
kelbro
Alfred Spatchcock
Wow. My final final .1µ on a leather paddle is so fine. I can't imagine .01!
I'm brand new to straights and this was a great read for me, thanks.
One question: What is meant by a "pull stroke"?
One question: What is meant by a "pull stroke"?
Assuming that you have the strop perpendicular to your body (i.e/ longways going away from you)rather than parallel,
Pull stoke = starting with the razor at the far end of the strop and pulling it towards you (edge is eyeballing your belly)
Push stroke = starting with the razor close to you and pushing it to the far end (you see the spine)
Pull stoke = starting with the razor at the far end of the strop and pulling it towards you (edge is eyeballing your belly)
Push stroke = starting with the razor close to you and pushing it to the far end (you see the spine)
You're saying the cutting edge is leading on a strop? That sounds like this newbie would be replacing the strop in short order lol.
Oops, that's what I get for not reading the thread back a half dozen posts or so. 
The answer is yes AND no ... depending.
If you're sharpening on film or a hone, the edge leads. If you're doing just a minor refresh/touchup on very high grit surfaces, then the edge trails as it would on an normal unpasted strop.
The answer is yes AND no ... depending.
If you're sharpening on film or a hone, the edge leads. If you're doing just a minor refresh/touchup on very high grit surfaces, then the edge trails as it would on an normal unpasted strop.
