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2011 R41 - The Quest Achieved!

Shaved with a Feather DX to get everything even again then this morning I shaved the right side of my face with the stock 2011 (upper photo) and the left side with a 2013 baseplate plus 2011 cap (lower photo).
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Very predictable result - the greater extension and shallower curvature of the 2013 baseplate with the narrower 2011 cap gave a very smooth shave with a bit of blade chatter, slightly more aggressive than the stock 2013 and slightly less aggressive than the stock 2011.
Nothing to see here then...
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muhle r41 2011 is the most aggressive modern production razor
it surpasses even by a small margin feather DX cobra king shaver and of course ikon shavecraft tech which is commentated from shavers used it vs muhle saying that is just a nice aggressive or that is marginally less aggressive
from other members also is mentioned that with merkur vision wide open still muhle gets the nod
my best straight razor shave was with dovo bergischer lowe 5/8 which left me with a 18 hours approximate smooth face
i couldn't accomplish this threshold with muhle as my best result was at 15 to 16 hours smooth until some months ago when i've changed blades from astra superior platinum, bolzano inox, feather platinum, even perma sharp russian with the modest personna platinum israeli etc
i've found out that with a SMOOTH but not insanely sharp blade i've achieved my goal to match the result i was dreaming
of course not only the blade choice but the advanced shaving techniques as well as preshave treatment with the best possible lather slick thick and protective all together helped me on this
 
I have to agree that so far the 2011 R41 seems to have pushed DE design to the maximum possible aggression that can still give a comfortable shave.

From what I remember of my Cobra Classic it was beautifully smooth and a little bitey but the 2011 R41 is still more aggressive.

I'm very interested in a direct comparison with the Vision 2000 wide open and also with the Alumigoose v1 which is astonishingly aggressive (not to be confused with the Alumigoose v2 which is mild mannered indeed).

And also blade choices...
 
I have been absent from the forum for quite a while due to a very busy life. I saw this thread title and the mention of the word "grail" and it has me wondering what was so special about the original R41. I bought one when they first came out, used it for a few times and then put it in the razor drawer. I don't think I have used it more than 5 or 6 times as I just have a lot of razors that I prefer so it doesn't get much love. Just wondering why it is held in such high esteem. Wondering minds want to know.:001_smile
 
I have been absent from the forum for quite a while due to a very busy life. I saw this thread title and the mention of the word "grail" and it has me wondering what was so special about the original R41. I bought one when they first came out, used it for a few times and then put it in the razor drawer. I don't think I have used it more than 5 or 6 times as I just have a lot of razors that I prefer so it doesn't get much love. Just wondering why it is held in such high esteem. Wondering minds want to know.:001_smile

This is a very good question.
I enjoy aggressive razors as long as the geometry is good, and for me the 2011 R41 represents the absolute peak.
This is as aggressive as it is possible to get whilst still giving a good comfortable shaving experience with no irritation.

The 2011 assumed a Grail like status for me because it was reported to shave as well or better than the Shavecraft Tech and Cobra Classic which were both razors I had used and loved.

But the 2011 was discontinued and I did not believe I would ever own one so acquiring one after years of desire was a magical experience.

This must be very different to your experience of owning one from new which perhaps makes yours seem a bit more mundane.

If you want to sell it, let me know [emoji3]
 
Per ardua ad astra.

After an Artist Club shave yesterday to reset everything, this morning it was Vision 2000 vs 2011 R41.
I shaved the left side of my face with the 2011 R41, the right side with the Vision 2000:
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The Merkur Vision 2000 is a simply astonishing razor and must surely be one of the greatest DEs ever made.

I'm not trying to prove which razor is "best" here at all, just see how a wide open V2k compares with the 2011 R41 since they are often mentioned in the same breath.

The Vision set on maximum is a fierce thing:
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And there were a lot of similarities with the Spitfire cap/2011 baseplate combo - lots of blade chatter and not so smooth. A bitey and intimidating shave.

Clearly the V2k isn't really designed to be used absolutely wide open like this, and stepped down slightly it's about as perfect as a DE can be for me.
But this experiment is about closeness of the shave so the Vision stays set on N+!

No doubt the 2011 R41 shaves smoother and is more manouverable and gave its normal waxy BBS.

The V2k at maximum on the other hand was a rougher and bitier shave which produced a polished and glassy BBS.

And the Vision left my skin with absolutely completely zero irritation compared to the almost-zero irritation result of the 2011 R41.

We're only 4 hours on from the shave, there's no doubt that the 2011 R41 was a smoother and more comfortable shave.
But the V2k has left my skin feeling ever so slightly nicer after the shave.

Perhaps this is something to do with the material it's made from.
Does anybody know what that is.

At this early stage it's impossible to say which razor has shaved closer since both sides of my face are still near BBS.
Watch this space...
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So 36hrs after the shave there's still really nothing in it between the 2011 R41 and the Vision 2000 in terms of closeness.
But the shaves are very different.



As with the Shavecraft Tech, the stubble from the V2k feels silkier and the stubble from the 2011 feels pricklier.

The 2011 R41 is a better less complex build and it feels nicer on the face and in the hand.

But the V2k left my face with a talc BBS (compared to the 2011's waxy BBS) and my skin calmer with silkier stubble.

So equal closeness.
The 2011 R41 felt a lot nicer during shave.
The result from the V2k felt a bit nicer afterwards.

They are both magnificent razors!
 
And after a shave with a nice Le Grelot straight yesterday to eve things out, today I shaved the left side of my face with the amazingly aggressive Alumigoose v1 (not to be confused with the much milder mannered current production Alumigoose v2) and a big Pro Super blade.
I shaved the right side with the 2011 R41 and a new Gillette 365:
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They only ever made 200 of the Alumigoose v1 and it's an incredible shaver if you like fierce razors.

The situation here was a reversal of that with the Vision 2000 comparison.

The Alumigoose v1 shaved much much smoother than the 2011 R41 and gave a drier rubbery BBS compared to the waxy BBS of the 2011 R41.

But the 2011 R41 left my skin slightly calmer after the shave and it sure likes those Indian Gillette 365s!

Only an hour after the shave, there's absolutely nothing in it for closeness.
The rubbery BBS of the Alumigoose v1 offers more resistance to the finger tips than the waxy BBS of the 2011 R41 and the skin is ever so slightly disturbed on the Alumigoose side.

And anything can happen over the next 24hrs:
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http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/299161-A-razor-more-aggressive-than-the-R41
on this thread Samjax member said with merkur vision wide open still muhle r41 2011 gets the nod

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ch-is-most-aggressive?highlight=merkur+vision
also Codfish

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...eather-blade-goodness?highlight=merkur+vision
again Samjax

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...atever-You-Had-Before?highlight=merkur+vision
in this thread vocalistbob said that with muhle r41 2011 shave last a bit longer than others he tried

propably is an IMMV or it depends of how someone uses the same tool
i would like to add and why not suggest if it is possible to be tested Roedter 1909 german razor which is supposed to be more aggressive than muhle r41 2011
also it is said that vintage french razors such as leresche and maybe others are more efficient than muhle what i can say
 
Yes it's certainly becoming clear that the 2011 R41 may deliver the longest lasting of all shaves.

The Vision 2000, Shavecraft Tech and Alumigoose v1 are all in the same league though with differing characteristics, face feel and handling.

12hrs on the shave from the 2011 R41 is marginally closer than from the Alumigoose v1 with a Pro Super but there's almost nothing in it.

For me the Alumigoose v1 is the smoothest shaver, the Vision 2000 leaves the skin calmest, the Shavecraft Tech is the most manouverable and the 2011 R41 shaves the closest.

They are all truly astounding razors and the 2011 R41 still seems to combine the most aggressive shave that can be comfortable with good handling and minimal irritation.
 
The Bakelite Shake Sharp is at least comparable in terms of blade gap and exposure to the 2011 R41 but to me the smoother shaver. I PIFed my R41 and bought another Shake Sharp.
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i really wonder what about Roedter messer 1909?
When you get one, send it to me and I'll do the test [emoji3]

The Bakelite Shake Sharp is at least comparable in terms of blade gap and exposure to the 2011 R41 but to me the smoother shaver. I PIFed my R41 and bought another Shake Sharp.[/IMG]

And yes I had a Bakelite and Gold Shake Sharp and it is a quite brilliant and very powerful razor.

I also have a Bulgarian Barbasol clone which feels more aggressive than the 2011 R41 and also shaves smoother.

I guess you could call these "Superrazors"!
 
I see [MENTION=85745]Polarbeard[/MENTION] has done a review of the Roedter 1909 and he says it is a FaTip with a flattened top cap so that the blade has less curvature and a lot of flex,causing a lot of aggression but without the good geometry.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...de-to-the-three-most-aggressive-safety-razors

The same kind of effect as the Spitfire cap on the 2011 baseplate and almost unusable, so it sounds as if the 2011 R41 would still win with its good geometry and [MENTION=85745]Polarbeard[/MENTION] reached that conclusion.

Would be fun to try though [emoji3]
 
Gentlemen, those of you that, like me are obsessed with as long lasting and smooth BBS as possible, have no other path to walk than the one that leads to straight razor shaving.

Even when I shaved with the R41 2011 and 2013, Fatip, Vision and the other aggressive razors during workdays I shaved with straight razors during weekends. After doing so for years I took a deep breath and jumped into the deep end of the pool starting to shave with straights seven days a week. I've never looked back.

I've never sold off any of my old razors (I've got every version of the Fatip including Joris, and several​ back ups for both the 2011 and 2013 as well as one for the Vision). I rarely touch them, but I keep them because I wouldn't want to be without them, besides I've got an eight year old son that someday will need a good shaver. I'm still collecting Gillette open comb razors in good condition.

Having stated the above there is no safety razor ever made that can give as close and comfortable a shave as a good straight razor in the hands of someone that knows what he's doing.

You're all very welcome to the straight razor subforum. There are guys there that would love to give you a good start on the one way trip.[emoji2]
 
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Wise words Arne!
As you know I am partial to straights, shavettes. SEs and DEs for variety is the spice of life [emoji3]
 
i've tried wacker wedge wacker 1/4 the set, extreme hohlung 7/8 wacker, thiers issard 5/8 silverwing first generation, boker damaskus 5/8, dovo bergischer lowe 5/8 and some custom made razors
in my opinion if someone maximizes his abilities with a capable safety razor can equalize the results of a straight razor shave
straight razor edge is longer than a safety razor edge thus achieves its results with less passes
if someone stretches the skin using a safety razor as with a straight razor i don't see any reason why not have the same results
i think that is more of an obsession or something that is considered as sacred the straight razor but what is important is the result and not so the means ussd to go there
my best shave was with dovo bergischer lowe 5/8 and 18 hours of smooth feeling
i've managed to achieve this result lately with muhle r41 2011 and use of a modest personna platinum israeli as with sharper blades as permasharp etc i had irritations
i've used kosher coticule with slurry with water and even with oil for sharpening my razors but even with my best efforts when i come back to a fresh safety razor blade i know what an effortless cut is
it would be interesting if other opinions are posed on this
 
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propably straight razor users will never confess that a fresh sharp de or SE blade cuts stubble much more easily than even the best sharpen razor
 
So now a comparison between the 2011 R41 and the Asylum Rx with a Pro Super in it:
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The Pro Super does fit properly into the Rx but it does make it quite bitey.

Shaved the left side with the Rx+Super and the right side with the 2011.

As always the 2011 was a slightly more comfortable and smoother shave.
But my skin condition afterwards was slightly better with the Rx.

And the big surprise is that 24hrs after the shave, both razors have shaved equally close!

The Rx with a Pro Super has outdone the V2k, the Shavecraft Tech and the Alumigoose v1 in this respect.
It's the first razor in this experiment that can match the 2011 R41 in closeness of shave for a full 24 hours.
We'll assess the situation again in the morning...
 
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