Viking Razor

[SGWB]

On August 15, the seller on Amazon said this about the Viking Blade Godfather's manufacturing source: "For this particular model: The assembly workshop and QC is in Victoria, Australia; the steel mill that forges the parts is in PRC with Australian management and supervisors, and the razor blades are imported from Sweden."

For the record, I have a Godfather and I like it. But the Amazon seller is full of BS.

It is not steel. It is brass. I know that because my chrome plating is wearing through where the handle toches the bottom plate. It is clearly brass beneath. I don't have a problem with that.

It's not forged, in a technical sense, because you don't normally forge brass, you cast it. Unless they are forming the threads by forging rather than cutting, which I suppose could be done. I don't have a problem with that.

"Assembly workshop and QC" means the parts are shipped to Austrailia to be checked, screwed together, and packaged. I don't have a problem with that.

"Austrailian management and supervisors" means they have a guy or two at the factory to interact with the Chineese factory managers. I don't have a problem with that.

As for "the razor blades are imported from Sweeden", if that is true, Baili must be repackaging Sweedish blades, because my blades are wrapped in Baili branded wrappers. I don't have a problem with that.... er, I wouldn't if it were true.

I do have a problem with these guys being less than honest about their product.

 

[SGWB]

Okay folks, I hate to derail this thread but I speak from first hand experience here. First and foremost, I'm neither a vendor, nor do I get paid/compensated for what I'm about to share. The Vikings Blade IS in fact, an original design. The Baili and all others are definitely NOT manufactured identically. I recently dropped my Vikings Blade on my bathroom tile floor and cried like a baby. I ordered the Baili to replace it and upon inspection, I was convinced I had ordered the same razor at a lower price UNTIL I shaved with it! The shave was so horrible that I began a VERY close inspection and discovered the differences. I have attached photos to support my findings and you all can believe what you want, but I shaved with that Vikings blade for eight months before trying the Baili replacement and IMMEDIATELY knew I was not in Kansas. First, the Baili weighs less by a couple of grams. It is also smaller tho only by a tiny fraction. But the most telling sign is the actual TTO mechanism. Turn these razors over and you'll notice that the Vikings Blade brand has its side arms (not the doors that open, but the arms that allow it to open) anchored to short round pins that come out of the base of the head. The head on the Baili does NOT attach this way and the ENTIRE mechanism is thus very different in design. We are talking about a precision instrument here. Fractions of millimetres make a HUGE difference in performance. The Baili doesn't expose the blade enough to actually cut hair worth a flip while the Vikings Blade always gave me a very mild but sharp and close shave. The weight and design are different guys. I don't care if they're made in the same factory or not, the Vikings Blade is superior and you'd know beyond any shadow of a doubt if you actually shaved with it and then compared it to the knock-offs. In the attached photos, the Vikings Blade is on the right and the last photo is the underside of the Vikings Blade brand (notice the round pin I mentioned before). You can see the differences in the design clearly when they are side by side. You can even see that the Baili's knurling pattern is screwy in some sports, where the Vikings Blade is more straight and polished. I hate that I bought my Vikings Blade for $19.99 around Christmas and then the price shot up to $33 but I can tell you that there's a good reason they charge a premium for their model. It's still the best razor I've owned since I started DE shaving and I mourn it's loss daily. If I didn't spend all my money on creams and soaps and other nonsense, I'd drop the $33 and just buy the replacement. **sigh** Instead, my poor damaged razor rests in it's carrying case in the back of my bathroom closet... alone in it's coffin...
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I don't mean to be contrary, but there are images of the Baili and Vikings Blade TTO razors that look to have the same construction. The simplest explanation is that Baili revised their design at some point. I don't know if you got the more recent revision, or the older one, but there are likely both floating around the channel and you got unlucky with the inferior design.

I will accept that Vikings Blade has a hand in making sure the razors they sell meet their quality requirements. Based on the Amazon reviews alone, it is pretty clear that they do a good job making sure their razors' geometry is correct. For that alone it may be worth it to buy from Vikings Blade rather than direct from Baili. But, I'm still not convinced there is a substantial difference.

 

[Lord Greystoke]

I also speak from firsthand experience. The Chieftain is a decent TTO razor, but it's still just a re-branded Chinese import. So is the Godfather. At least half a dozen other vendors sell the exact same razors for a third of the VB MSRP. Contrary to the seller's claims, they aren't patented, nor are there patents pending. The blades that ship with it are garbage. The seller's shaving cream is okay, but it's nothing special.

 

[ZigZiglar]

I don't mean to be contrary, but there are images of the Baili and Vikings Blade TTO razors that look to have the same construction. The simplest explanation is that Baili revised their design at some point. I don't know if you got the more recent revision, or the older one, but there are likely both floating around the channel and you got unlucky with the inferior design.

I will accept that Vikings Blade has a hand in making sure the razors they sell meet their quality requirements. Based on the Amazon reviews alone, it is pretty clear that they do a good job making sure their razors' geometry is correct. For that alone it may be worth it to buy from Vikings Blade rather than direct from Baili. But, I'm still not convinced there is a substantial difference.

View attachment 716783View attachment 716784

Those two photos are different designs but I'm not trying to argue, I'm just stating facts. Also, for what it's worth, (and I've said this before) I only paid $20 for the Chieftain on sale and am not willing to pay the $37 they're now charging for it, even for superior tooling. They definitely have a right to charge what they want. If I could resell that razor for $70-$100, and people were willing to pay it, you better believe I would

 

[CamberwellCarrot]

You should take a hacksaw to the broken Vikings Blade handle and head so that we can see photos of its materials as well as the TTO mechanism in the handle.

 

[ZigZiglar]

You should take a hacksaw to the broken Vikings Blade handle and head so that we can see photos of its materials as well as the TTO mechanism in the handle.

Heeeeey! That's not s bad idea! Let me see what I can do. For science! Maybe I can take it to my brother's shop and get a clean cut. Stand by on this.

 

[Bookworm]

I looked at the photos closely, and they are the same construction design (from post #62). The angle throws you off. The RazoRock relabeled Baili doesn't use that construction. (Nor does the other RazoRock TTO that I bought a while back, that came in a blue plastic box). Why DOES RazoRock relabel the things? Personally, I'd rather they simply said "Hey, we're selling this Baili razor" rather than lie by putting their name on it. (I also don't like 'store brand' relabeling, but that's another story).

Any luck on slicing and dicing the razor to get a cross section?

 

[rusty1]

Just guessing, but perhaps there's more required of the vendor to be an official "Baili" distributor, so the way IB/Joe's doing it may be less hassle overall. Plus I'm sure he's rightfully proud of his brand name & hard to argue that he's charging a lot for the "Quick Change."

In any event, there are a number of these "Baili" looking type razors on Amazon by various vendors for what I consider outrageous prices. Just like with the Weishi/Timor/Golddachs TTO's the Bevel/Matador/Bombay, the DE89/R89 (which the design at least is original to Muhle and EJ), i.e. Is the Maggard V3 head being made by the same factory supplying them to EJ/Muhle?

Again, I don't know & have never read anything definitive as to same factory, same tooling, different name. While it would be interesting to know the answer, I think we need to judge each brand/razor on it's own - even if it is what I call a "clone." And certainly, I don't think that being a clone or the "same construction design" is, per se, a negative.

 

[Quijote]

I took a look at my viking chieftain, and it looks a little different than the Baili. It doesn't have the rivets on the bottom of the base plate. It does however have the Baili stamp on it. So, my best guess is that they slightly changed the design and called it their own. But like I said, that is just a guess.

 

[tankerjohn]

For the record, I have a Godfather and I like it. But the Amazon seller is full of BS.

It is not steel. It is brass. I know that because my chrome plating is wearing through where the handle toches the bottom plate. It is clearly brass beneath. I don't have a problem with that.

It's not forged, in a technical sense, because you don't normally forge brass, you cast it. Unless they are forming the threads by forging rather than cutting, which I suppose could be done. I don't have a problem with that.

"Assembly workshop and QC" means the parts are shipped to Austrailia to be checked, screwed together, and packaged. I don't have a problem with that.

"Austrailian management and supervisors" means they have a guy or two at the factory to interact with the Chineese factory managers. I don't have a problem with that.

As for "the razor blades are imported from Sweeden", if that is true, Baili must be repackaging Sweedish blades, because my blades are wrapped in Baili branded wrappers. I don't have a problem with that.... er, I wouldn't if it were true.

I do have a problem with these guys being less than honest about their product.

Well said. I agree. Stuff is made in China. That is the world we inhabit in the year 2017. Global supply chains and all that. But when companies are not up front about where they are sourcing their products, that's crap. I'm sure these are nice enough razors and seem to continue to get good reviews on Amazon (for whatever that's worth), but I'll keep my Red Tip thanks.

 

[ZigZiglar]

I took a look at my viking chieftain, and it looks a little different than the Baili. It doesn't have the rivets on the bottom of the base plate. It does however have the Baili stamp on it. So, my best guess is that they slightly changed the design and called it their own. But like I said, that is just a guess.
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I believe this is the most likely scenario. Surely they're all made by the same organization. I just happen to find the two different designs I used to shave very differently. No matter, I don't even care for TTOs anymore. Tree peas iz ware issat!

 

[Bookworm]

The Viking Chieftain that Quijote posted looks exactly like my RazoRock Baili, at least for the underside of the head. I suspect there has been at least one change in manufacturing lines, or they run two different models with the same name/mostly the same design.

 

[shaveandahaircut]

Okay folks, I hate to derail this thread but I speak from first hand experience here. First and foremost, I'm neither a vendor, nor do I get paid/compensated for what I'm about to share. The Vikings Blade IS in fact, an original design. The Baili and all others are definitely NOT manufactured identically. I recently dropped my Vikings Blade on my bathroom tile floor and cried like a baby. I ordered the Baili to replace it and upon inspection, I was convinced I had ordered the same razor at a lower price UNTIL I shaved with it! The shave was so horrible that I began a VERY close inspection and discovered the differences. I have attached photos to support my findings and you all can believe what you want, but I shaved with that Vikings blade for eight months before trying the Baili replacement and IMMEDIATELY knew I was not in Kansas. First, the Baili weighs less by a couple of grams. It is also smaller tho only by a tiny fraction. But the most telling sign is the actual TTO mechanism. Turn these razors over and you'll notice that the Vikings Blade brand has its side arms (not the doors that open, but the arms that allow it to open) anchored to short round pins that come out of the base of the head. The head on the Baili does NOT attach this way and the ENTIRE mechanism is thus very different in design. We are talking about a precision instrument here. Fractions of millimetres make a HUGE difference in performance. The Baili doesn't expose the blade enough to actually cut hair worth a flip while the Vikings Blade always gave me a very mild but sharp and close shave. The weight and design are different guys. I don't care if they're made in the same factory or not, the Vikings Blade is superior and you'd know beyond any shadow of a doubt if you actually shaved with it and then compared it to the knock-offs. In the attached photos, the Vikings Blade is on the right and the last photo is the underside of the Vikings Blade brand (notice the round pin I mentioned before). You can see the differences in the design clearly when they are side by side. You can even see that the Baili's knurling pattern is screwy in some sports, where the Vikings Blade is more straight and polished. I hate that I bought my Vikings Blade for $19.99 around Christmas and then the price shot up to $33 but I can tell you that there's a good reason they charge a premium for their model. It's still the best razor I've owned since I started DE shaving and I mourn it's loss daily. If I didn't spend all my money on creams and soaps and other nonsense, I'd drop the $33 and just buy the replacement. **sigh** Instead, my poor damaged razor rests in it's carrying case in the back of my bathroom closet... alone in it's coffin...
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I just looked at the following website selling the Baili BD179 and the pics show it to have construction identical to the Viking Blade Chieftain show by ZigZiglar above. Here is a link to the website: Aliexpress.com : Buy BAILI Barber Safety Blade Razor Shaver Double Edge Butterfly Twist Open T Shaped Unisex +1 Blade 1 Travel Case with Mirror BD179 from Reliable safety razor suppliers on BAILI Official Store

 

[Quijote]

I fear that without a side by side comparison of the different versions we will never truly be able to answer if there are any differences or if they shave any differently. And even then, if they weren't produced around the same time, there could be differences in the manufacturing lines like Bookworm alluded to.

 

[ZigZiglar]

I just looked at the following website selling the Baili BD179 and the pics show it to have construction identical to the Viking Blade Chieftain show by ZigZiglar above. Here is a link to the website: Aliexpress.com : Buy BAILI Barber Safety Blade Razor Shaver Double Edge Butterfly Twist Open T Shaped Unisex +1 Blade 1 Travel Case with Mirror BD179 from Reliable safety razor suppliers on BAILI Official Store

Definitely NOT identical. The one in that link has hollow rivets vs what look like solid pins in my photo. But very similar indeed.

 

[shaveandahaircut]

i see the hollow rivet vs the solid pin difference you mention, but the rest of the appearance does look pretty similar.

 

[Quijote]

I figured that I would just ask the company what it is made out of. They told me that it is an alloy of brass and bronze. So probably not zamak, but no telling what it is.

 

[Graybeard57]

A friend just gave this to me. Does anyone know anything about this razor? I haven't recalled seeing or hearing anything about it on this site but he claims it has a sensational review from Amazon.

Thanks,
Joel

Well, Joel, it seems you have opened a real can of worms. How does your razor shave?

 

[jdburger]

I actually bought the Menessentials version of this razor a few months ago at Marshall's here in Canada. I believe it was $8.99 Cdn but it may have been 9.99. At that price, I was skeptical of its quality but I couldn't resist buying it. Perhaps due to that skepticism, I've yet to try it out.

After discovering this thread, I've decided I will give it a try for my next shave!

 

[ZigZiglar]

Of all the TTOs I've tried, his was the only one I liked. It's underrated in my honest opinion. The weird handle actually provides decent grip. The mechanism is sound. The finish is great. The shave is not bad at all. It's perfectly weighted in my opinion. Good razor. Great price.