First time soap making.hot process-shave soap

[dawnrader]

I've been reading this thread with great interest, have you thought about adding mango butter either instead of the shea or taking the stearic/shortening down by a few %? I've read something on here that mango butter performs better than shea in shave soaps.
Cocoa butter is also another one high in palmitic & stearic acids.

 

[Dilbone]

I've been reading this thread with great interest, have you thought about adding mango butter either instead of the shea or taking the stearic/shortening down by a few %? I've read something on here that mango butter performs better than shea in shave soaps.
Cocoa butter is also another one high in palmitic & stearic acids.

No I haven't. At this point I don't think I'm going to plan on any additional ingredients. The last 2 batches I've made since adding the scenting oil I've had issues with rancidity. I've got to figure that out before I even think about spending more money of additional supplies. I still have a thin slice of a batch from probably 8 or 9 months ago that didn't have any issues...still smells like unscented soap, no orange/brown spots at all. Both of the last 2 scented batches are terrible, 2 batches ago is barely usable.

I will probably be bringing the superfat percentage down some, closer to 3% so that I don't have as much left in there to go bad. I'm not sure if maybe I cooked it too hot which may have destabilized the lard I use or what, but something has to change.

 

[dawnrader]

It's unlikely that it's the fragrance oil, it's sold in huge quantities to all sorts of cosmetic manufacturers, so a spare ounce shouldn't be it.
What about the shortening? It's my only suspect in the list as it's made of multiple oils rather than a single oil. Are you able to get pure tallow (beef or deer) where you are?

I found a soap recipe recently and had a play about with it,
58% beef tallow28% cocoa butter
6% coconut oil
10% shea butter

I don't even remember where I got it from, I took the tallow down to 50%, the cocoa down to 20%, and made it 5% coconut oil, I added 5% castor and 20% mango to see what happen and it turned out fairly decent.
The lather is pretty quick to form and is stable enough to remain fluffy in the bowl overnight, seeing as I don't have a face to shave I took it out on my legs...

I set off with his new Standard Razor and a generic blade that came with the set, oh boy... I can't blame the soap for the state of my legs but it looked like I was attacked by a hoard of kittens, it wasn't pretty.
Excitement got in the road I think, between the new razor and the soap I got all giddy, I'll wait a couple of days and try again with the tried and trusted Futur and a decent Feather blade see if I can rescue my legs and test out the soap properly.

ps (I think im more into this wet shaving lark than he is *shrugs*)

 

[tclobaugh]

I love your descriptive about the kittens - puurfect visualization

I've found that great "looking" lather does not always shave well. I've lathered up new soaps that I thought were going to give a great shave based on the lather I created (good cushion and slickness when feeling the lather and it looked like lather that would shave well) and then I would only get a mediocre shave. I've never quite figured out why this is, unless it has something to do with what the lather is doing to my whiskers.

It's unlikely that it's the fragrance oil, it's sold in huge quantities to all sorts of cosmetic manufacturers, so a spare ounce shouldn't be it.
What about the shortening? It's my only suspect in the list as it's made of multiple oils rather than a single oil. Are you able to get pure tallow (beef or deer) where you are?

I found a soap recipe recently and had a play about with it,
58% beef tallow28% cocoa butter
6% coconut oil
10% shea butter

I don't even remember where I got it from, I took the tallow down to 50%, the cocoa down to 20%, and made it 5% coconut oil, I added 5% castor and 20% mango to see what happen and it turned out fairly decent.
The lather is pretty quick to form and is stable enough to remain fluffy in the bowl overnight, seeing as I don't have a face to shave I took it out on my legs...

I set off with his new Standard Razor and a generic blade that came with the set, oh boy... I can't blame the soap for the state of my legs but it looked like I was attacked by a hoard of kittens, it wasn't pretty.
Excitement got in the road I think, between the new razor and the soap I got all giddy, I'll wait a couple of days and try again with the tried and trusted Futur and a decent Feather blade see if I can rescue my legs and test out the soap properly.

ps (I think im more into this wet shaving lark than he is *shrugs*)

 

[redrider_99]

I love your descriptive about the kittens - puurfect visualization

I've found that great "looking" lather does not always shave well. I've lathered up new soaps that I thought were going to give a great shave based on the lather I created (good cushion and slickness when feeling the lather and it looked like lather that would shave well) and then I would only get a mediocre shave. I've never quite figured out why this is, unless it has something to do with what the lather is doing to my whiskers.

I agree with this whole-heartedly. I cannot judge a soap based on a test lather. The razor has to hit my face before I can tell anything more than "bath soap" vs real shave soap.

 

[tclobaugh]

I agree with this whole-heartedly. I cannot judge a soap based on a test lather. The razor has to hit my face before I can tell anything more than "bath soap" vs real shave soap.

I still test lather as I'm in a lot of pass around boxes. Test lather is great for getting the true scent profile of a soap and can often let you know if a soap is not worth shaving with. I mostly use them on brands I am familiar with but scents I am not.

 

[Dilbone]

It's been quite a while since posting in this thread, but I have a new update. I had made a couple of additional small(4-8oz) batches with the same shortening and the rancidity was even worse. It has to be the shortening. I'm just going to have to make sure to only buy smaller amounts of it at a time and get it used up sooner.

In my attempt to find a smaller container of the great value shortening I saw a 16oz container of lard for $1.48 which is cheaper per pound than the 42oz shortening. I know the shortening contains several different kinds of oils including lard, so I don't have any idea what pure lard would do to the soap characteristics.

I ended up buying a pound of the lard to replace what was left of my shortening. I ran the soap calc numbers with the lard in there just to make sure the other numbers didn't change in terms of ingredients and all looked the same. I'm still at this recipe:
45% lard
35% stearic acid
10% castor oil
5% coconut oil
5% shea butter

I measured out an 8oz of oils batch which usually yields about 10oz of soap.
I held back the shea butter and added about half of it about half way through the cook, then added the rest near the end to make sure that the bulk of the superfat was coming from the shea.

I ended up using the "cedar and spice" scent from the cierra scents I have and added a bit more than I have been adding to beef up the scent. It's been pretty mild on the scented batches I've done so far and fades even more as it ages...and hasn't been strong enough to cover up the rancid smell...awful.

It cooked up complete in about and hour and I got it in my PVC mold, let it cool a bit, and finally sliced off a bit. It was waaaaaay softer than the shortening. It may be as soft as cella. You can't touch it without having soap all over your fingers, very soft and sticky. It also weighed 11oz after cooking and normally it is 10-10.5oz. The other thing I did was cooking it at a slightly lower temp thinking maybe heating too high is what was also having and impact on the rancidity(maybe not...just a thought). Maybe the lower cooking temp kept more water in the end product?
So here it is sliced up


I shook most of the water out of the brush to load since the soap was so wet and soft already and I loaded for 60-90seconds-ish


I wet my hand down and started to build some lather(I exclusively face/head lather), and it was building quite well looking very thick and rich...and the cedar spice smelled fantastic


I added a bit more water a couple different times and the lather just kept growing and becoming more dense


Here it is with the lard I used after sitting 8-10 minutes or so. The only thing that changed after sitting was the glossy shine went away. When I grabbed the brush and started to slide the lather around with my fingers it was still like a yogurty rich lather. For straight shaving I would continue to add water to make it a little looser and not so firm, but this is one fine lather IMHO

 

[bionut]

I use lard for cooking and it never gone rancid. Maybe the one you buy isn't traditionaly render like mine, the hidrogenated or non hidrogenated stuff... Don't really know the difference, is just a presumption.
I also made a lard shaving soap and it is great until now, i am still testing it.

 

[Dilbone]

I use lard for cooking and it never gone rancid. Maybe the one you buy isn't traditionaly render like mine, the hidrogenated or non hidrogenated stuff... Don't really know the difference, is just a presumption.
I also made a lard shaving soap and it is great until now, i am still testing it.

I've never used pure lard before, so we'll see about this stuff. The "shortening" I was using was Great Value walmart brand that included lard and vegetable oils. I've had bottles of vegetable oil go rancid in the cupboard before, so maybe the blend of oils in the shortening was the culprit. I hope, like you've said, that the lard eliminates the rancidity issues I've had.

 

[Dilbone]

My shave this morning was great with the new"ish" soap. My brush was definitely a little too dry as I loaded it, so I had to keep adding water as I worked the lather. I eventually got it to about where it was last night in my test lather for my head shave. Then I hit the brush with some more water and got my face really well loosening the lather quite a bit. It wasn't by any means runny, but it was pretty good for where I like it...maybe a touch still on the dry side. I'll have to do a little experimenting the next few days.

It seems that as my soap ages and dries out I have to add quite a bit more water when I load then when it is fresh out of the mold. When I go from finishing the last bit of the old to a freshly cooked puck I have to adjust a bit let alone when I change one of the ingredients. Overall, I think the lard is a keeper on this one. I really need to get more friends into wet shaving so I can get rid of more soap...and make more soap...

 

[cgsample]

I agree on keeping the temperature low with lard. My last lard batch got too hot and the nasty pig smell came through.

I have had a tub of shea butter go rancid.

 

[Dilbone]

I agree on keeping the temperature low with lard. My last lard batch got too hot and the nasty pig smell came through.

I have had a tub of shea butter go rancid.

Mine was barely melted and I got the nasty pig smell...I was worried there for a minute, but once it started cooking it smelled like soap...wheeeew

That's not good to hear about the shea butter. I only bought a tiny(maybe 8oz) container, but at 5% in the recipe and only 11grams for 11oz of soap it's gonna take me forever to get though it all. I may have to find some other uses for it so it doesn't turn on me and go to waste. It smells delicious. I'm sure I could make some kind of moisturizer cream with it for my wife to use.

 

[Dilbone]

Well, on a whim I decided to list a puck of this soap on ebay because it just takes me too long to get through it and I've run out of people to gift it to. I figured if I get the cost of materials back I'd be happy. It sold within 5 hours and will just about cover cost of materials after shipping an fees. Win/Win

 

[hudson_macbeth]

the cedar soap sounds fantastic. I've recently gotten into a cedar scent kick. Following this thread, as I may try my hand at soap making when I can get home long enough to do so.

 

[Dilbone]

the cedar soap sounds fantastic. I've recently gotten into a cedar scent kick. Following this thread, as I may try my hand at soap making when I can get home long enough to do so.

First of all, thank you for your service!
The cedar soap IS fantastic!!! I almost didn't use it on this latest batch...seemed too cinnamon-y, but in the soap the cedar really comes out and the spice has definitely gone more subtle.
Do it...it's pretty cool to be able to turn out a top shelf shave soap in after a couple of hours in a cooker. I hope you're able to get home soon!

 

[hudson_macbeth]

First of all, thank you for your service!
The cedar soap IS fantastic!!! I almost didn't use it on this latest batch...seemed too cinnamon-y, but in the soap the cedar really comes out and the spice has definitely gone more subtle.
Do it...it's pretty cool to be able to turn out a top shelf shave soap in after a couple of hours in a cooker. I hope you're able to get home soon!

I'll have to see about getting the stuff ordered soon, and making sure it is all at the house. I drive a tractor trailer over the road, so I'm only home 2 days every 2 weeks.

 

[kemarvel]

It's been quite a while since posting in this thread, but I have a new update. I had made a couple of additional small(4-8oz) batches with the same shortening and the rancidity was even worse. It has to be the shortening. I'm just going to have to make sure to only buy smaller amounts of it at a time and get it used up sooner.

In my attempt to find a smaller container of the great value shortening I saw a 16oz container of lard for $1.48 which is cheaper per pound than the 42oz shortening. I know the shortening contains several different kinds of oils including lard, so I don't have any idea what pure lard would do to the soap characteristics.

I ended up buying a pound of the lard to replace what was left of my shortening. I ran the soap calc numbers with the lard in there just to make sure the other numbers didn't change in terms of ingredients and all looked the same. I'm still at this recipe:
45% lard
35% stearic acid
10% castor oil
5% coconut oil
5% shea butter

I measured out an 8oz of oils batch which usually yields about 10oz of soap.
I held back the shea butter and added about half of it about half way through the cook, then added the rest near the end to make sure that the bulk of the superfat was coming from the shea.

I ended up using the "cedar and spice" scent from the cierra scents I have and added a bit more than I have been adding to beef up the scent. It's been pretty mild on the scented batches I've done so far and fades even more as it ages...and hasn't been strong enough to cover up the rancid smell...awful.

It cooked up complete in about and hour and I got it in my PVC mold, let it cool a bit, and finally sliced off a bit. It was waaaaaay softer than the shortening. It may be as soft as cella. You can't touch it without having soap all over your fingers, very soft and sticky. It also weighed 11oz after cooking and normally it is 10-10.5oz. The other thing I did was cooking it at a slightly lower temp thinking maybe heating too high is what was also having and impact on the rancidity(maybe not...just a thought). Maybe the lower cooking temp kept more water in the end product?
So here it is sliced up


I shook most of the water out of the brush to load since the soap was so wet and soft already and I loaded for 60-90seconds-ish


I wet my hand down and started to build some lather(I exclusively face/head lather), and it was building quite well looking very thick and rich...and the cedar spice smelled fantastic


I added a bit more water a couple different times and the lather just kept growing and becoming more dense


Here it is with the lard I used after sitting 8-10 minutes or so. The only thing that changed after sitting was the glossy shine went away. When I grabbed the brush and started to slide the lather around with my fingers it was still like a yogurty rich lather. For straight shaving I would continue to add water to make it a little looser and not so firm, but this is one fine lather IMHO



Is this recipe for the 8 oz with Lard just using the KOH?

 

[Dilbone]

8oz of oils with a 60/40 KOH/NaOH

 

[Phog Allen]

That is one very slick looking lather. Well done. I get you on the water addition. Many times a lather like that goes on sublimely but tightens up a bit after you paint it on. I can tell by looking when you hit the sweet spot that lather is going to be a whisker killer.

 

[castlebar]

Excellent thread - I am a cold process soapmaker, and I've tried shaving soap before, and you're right, with a high stearic % it saponifies almost instantly. I will try the KOH. One thing I add to my shaving soap which helps with razor glide is bentonite clay @ 1 TB per pound of oils.

Dilbone, can you enlighten me on the crock pot method? I imagine that you melt the oils in the crock pot then add the lye water, but Do you mix the KOH and NaOH with their respective amounts of water in separate containers, or one container? Also do you wait until the temperature of the lye water has dropped or do you add directly to the melted oils? Lastly, I don’ know if it’s you or someone else who mentioned adding the stearic acid after the other oils had traced, or do you mix the stearic with the base oils?